ddoyle00
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ddoyle00 said:I never got a good respose to this question, mainly because it kept being answered by prepubescent youngsters vainly showing the benefits of an emotional arguement. So I will post it again. I have heard poeple claim their christian god is all-knowing and that they have free will at the same time.
Now imagine your life as a dvd (ignore the special features).
1.god.........................................the director
2.shot and fimed the movie............which is your life
3.sent the movie to BlockBuster......sent your spirit to Earth
4. for people to enjoy....................for you to live your life.
Now, with the movie analogy still in mind, think about the last movie you watched. What were you able to do? Fast-forward...yes. Rewind.....yes. Change the beginning..no. Change what happens in the middle.....no.
Alter the ending......no. No matter how you watched the movie (lived your life), you were not able to alter the ending. Since people say god is all-knowing, he knows what you are have done, what you are doing and most importantly, what you will do. Do you really think you can juke left or right fast enough to catch god off-balance? Like god is gonna say, "Damn, that guy got right past me, I didnt see that coming!". Come on. If you admit god is all knowing, then he knew you would be reading this right now and he knows exactly how you will respond. Free will? I think not.
Peralin said:The Bible contradicts itself also. Jesus knows that Peter will betray him before it happens. Jesus knows that he will be betrayed by Judas. Jesus knows that he will be crucified. How does he know these things?
In my belief, he doesn't. These things were made up to make the story more interesting. I fully believe in free will. I believe that God has free will just as all of us do. I believe that God makes mistakes just as we do. (Then again, I also believe that it is possible to be perfect and that sin is only an opinion, so you may want to discard my beliefs.
Peralin said:Here's my question. If our lives are already written, why don't we go out and party and have fun? Who cares about sin? If we are destined to go to hell, we can't do anything about it! If we are destined to go to heaven, we can't do anything about it! We don't even exist! If predestination were truth, we would not be beings, but instead robots.
If only Michelangelo had your perspicacity – what would the Sistine Chapel look like I wonder?ddoyle00 said:Damn Howie......I dont picture god with a little weenie. I picture god with a pornstar size schlong that would make Peter North blush. And your entire answer is a cop-out.
ddoyle00 said:Neophyte, that was a good post to begin with, but consider what you wrote.
"What if God already planned various scenarios that he has sought out already for us"
Still god has foreknowledge, especially if he created those various scenarios.
Even with that, are you saying, there are so many different possibilities, that
he doesnt know which one we will take? Or just that he doesnt know what
we will do, only the result?
"That every single decision, step, and move we take would lead us to the destination he has already planned for us."
So are you saying he gives us a few choices to make, but in the end the
chapter is already written? When you say "the destination he has already
planned for us", it sure sounds like he knows what we are going to do.
Now, when you talk about parallel universes, are you saying there are
multiple gods or is the christian god master of them too? Myself personally,
I would rather not think that I am a rat running around in a cosmic
mousetrap under the impression that I have a few "free" choices to make
before I die. I dont like the thought of being in a giant lab. experiment
wondering if I run the maze fast enough, will I get the sweet sweet cheese
at the end of it. If that gives you some sort of warm and fuzzy when the
chips are down, them march on mindless marrionette. But the only way you
can be truely free is throwing off the shackles of your oppressive beliefs
and start believing in yourself.
ddoyle00 said:I never got a good respose to this question, mainly because it kept being answered by prepubescent youngsters vainly showing the benefits of an emotional arguement. So I will post it again. I have heard poeple claim their christian god is all-knowing and that they have free will at the same time.
Now imagine your life as a dvd (ignore the special features).
1.god.........................................the director
2.shot and fimed the movie............which is your life
3.sent the movie to BlockBuster......sent your spirit to Earth
4. for people to enjoy....................for you to live your life.
Now, with the movie analogy still in mind, think about the last movie you watched. What were you able to do? Fast-forward...yes. Rewind.....yes. Change the beginning..no. Change what happens in the middle.....no.
Alter the ending......no. No matter how you watched the movie (lived your life), you were not able to alter the ending. Since people say god is all-knowing, he knows what you are have done, what you are doing and most importantly, what you will do. Do you really think you can juke left or right fast enough to catch god off-balance? Like god is gonna say, "Damn, that guy got right past me, I didnt see that coming!". Come on. If you admit god is all knowing, then he knew you would be reading this right now and he knows exactly how you will respond. Free will? I think not.
ddoyle00 said:Free will? I think not.
Iriemon said:What difference does it make?
[Note the above is not the opinion of the management or owners of the entity knowns as "Iriemon"]
nkgupta80 said:Well in the Christian point of view, the end of the path is either Heaven or Hell right? So either I choose the paths to heaven or I choose the paths to hell. It kinda feels like a dictator tellin me I could take whatever path I want... but If I take the path he doesn't like, I get punished. Is that really free-will?
nkgupta80 said:Well in the Christian point of view, the end of the path is either Heaven or Hell right? So either I choose the paths to heaven or I choose the paths to hell. It kinda feels like a dictator tellin me I could take whatever path I want... but If I take the path he doesn't like, I get punished. Is that really free-will?
ddoyle00 said:"Does knowing something mean you caused it?
Lets look at the analogy again. Suppose you and I both watch a movie. You have seen the movie before. You already know what is going to happen. Does that mean you caused it to happen?
God is outside of time. He can see all that will ever happen in time. That does not mean he casues everything to happen."
Dream.......there has to be a cause for every effect. Things dont just happen. That is the big mystery of the universe. In your eyes, God happened and the effect was the universe. Since he is both the Alpha and the Omega (beginning and the end) he knows the exact fate of everything he has created because he is omniscient. You cant call god all-knowing because that would entail he knows the end of all things. Then, he knows your end as well. As far as me watching a movie Ive already seen, your point is.......? I may be able to predict what happens, but I STILL CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. That is the whole point. We cant alter the beginning, the middle, or the end. NO free will.
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