France moves to ban homeschooling in 2021

[aociswundumho]

FRANCE France moves to ban homeschooling in 2021 - National Association of Catholic Families

LifeSiteNews reports : French president Emmanuel Macron announced on Friday morning that he intends to outlaw homeschooling for all children except those who have a health condition that would justify staying away from school. He Read more…

www.cfnews.org.uk

Looks like the totalitarian political left is at it again:

French president Emmanuel Macron announced on Friday morning that he intends to outlaw homeschooling for all children except those who have a health condition that would justify staying away from school. He also intends to step up control on private independent schools that receive no public funds, in particular through inspections on the curricula taught there, by more severely implementing a recent law that requires such schools to teach a “common core” defined by a high authority for education.

Got to make sure the kids are properly indoctrinated with politically correct beliefs.

Today, some 50,000 students of compulsory education age are homeschooled in France. Officially, parents are required to tell the local authorities that they are homeschooling their child or children, and they will typically be visited once a year by academic inspectors. They are allowed to homeschool only their own children; parents are not allowed to club together to give group lessons. The numbers of homeschooled children are rising every year, as Macron noted in his speech; he is therefore going against the trend that clearly indicates what French parents want.

I can't help but be reminded of the words from a famous, life-long socialist:

"Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."

 

[TypicalRussian]

what in the world?

 

[Acadia]

The government must raise and educate.
This is crazy.

 

[JMR]

There are several European countries that have banned homeschooling.

Many of the reasons given are to protect the right of a child to an education. Before you posted this thread, did you look into what exactly is the concern in France?

 

[Jredbaron96]

What the OP convienantly left out of the article:

Macron’s announcements were part of a series of measures aimed at fighting what he calls “separatism,” a strange expression he uses to designate the aims of “radical Islamists” who want to substitute the laws of the French Republic with sharia law. He quoted the example of a clandestine school where young Muslims were found in a plain, almost windowless room, taught by women in niqabs and learning mostly prayers and the Koran, in order to justify his wide-ranging attack against freedom of education.


Emmanuel Macron was speaking at a public event in Les Mureaux, one of the many suburban towns around Paris where immigrants from many countries, mostly in North Africa and sub-Saharan Africa, form the majority. Les Mureaux was the theater of ethnic riots in 2005 and has since been considered a hotspot for radical Islam, with the shooting of a police commander and his girlfriend in 2016 in an attack claimed by the Islamic State. Many of these migrants are Muslim: Muslims represent anything from 4 to 8 or 9 million souls in France, according to different sources. Repeatedly, terrorist attacks in France have been committed in the name of Allah by such migrants, legal or not.


According to Lionel Devic, president of the “Fondation pour l’Ecole,” an association that supports the creation and functioning of independent schools in France, “it is clearly established that not a single perpetrator of terrorist attacks in France came from independent schools.” In his statement, he added that “Emmanuel Macron lucidly acknowledged that Islamist separatism can be traced back to public schools and private schools under contract with the state.”

Now watch the right wing turn around and defend this effort.

 

[OlNate]

FRANCE France moves to ban homeschooling in 2021 - National Association of Catholic Families

LifeSiteNews reports : French president Emmanuel Macron announced on Friday morning that he intends to outlaw homeschooling for all children except those who have a health condition that would justify staying away from school. He Read more…

www.cfnews.org.uk

Looks like the totalitarian political left is at it again:



Got to make sure the kids are properly indoctrinated with politically correct beliefs.



I can't help but be reminded of the words from a famous, life-long socialist:

"Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."

Cool story. Almost as cool as:

Trump Calls for ‘Patriotic Education’ to Defend American History From the Left (Published 2020)

At the National Archives Museum, the president warned against a “radical movement” that has emerged from “decades of left-wing indoctrination in our schools.”

www.nytimes.com

Looks like indoctrination is all the rage. Oh, and by the way, that totalitarian political left stuff you were talking about?

One year on, Macron governs as a right-wing French president

Although Emmanuel Macron campaigned for the French presidency as an exemplar of the Third Way, since taking office he has governed with broadly right-wing policies, even if that means ripping up some…

www.france24.com

You should probably ask a mod to delete this thread.

 

[aociswundumho]

Now watch the right wing turn around and defend this effort.

Why would I defend it? Why would I care what you choose to teach your own kid?

 

[Jredbaron96]

Why would I defend it? Why would I care what you choose to teach your own kid?

Did I say you would?

 

[swing_voter]

Yeah, the law is aimed at Muslims.

 

[HonestJoe]

Why would I defend it? Why would I care what you choose to teach your own kid?

You objected to the idea of kids being "indoctrinated with politically correct beliefs". If you don't care what kids are taught, why would you care about that?

 

[aociswundumho]

You objected to the idea of kids being "indoctrinated with politically correct beliefs". If you don't care what kids are taught, why would you care about that?

Because parents have the right to teach their kids what they wish. The government should have no say in it whatsoever.

 

[HonestJoe]

Because parents have the right to teach their kids what they wish. The government should have no say in it whatsoever.

You don't believe parents should teach their kids anything they want - I'd hope there'd be plenty of things you'd strongly object to any children being taught. You may well object to any government intervention but I'm not convinced even the most committed libertarian doesn't have a line at some point, even if they've not reached it yet.

 

[aociswundumho]

You don't believe parents should teach their kids anything they want - I'd hope there'd be plenty of things you'd strongly object to any children being taught.

There are lots of things kids are taught that I strongly object to. Some examples are FDR was a good president, fascism is right wing, government regulation is a net benefit to society, etc, but parents have the right to teach their kids lies if they want to.

It's not enough to object to what the parents are teaching their kids, you have to be willing to use force and violence to stop them. Since it would be morally wrong for me to do that on my own, I can't delegate some armed government thug to do it for me.

 

[aociswundumho]

Yeah, the law is aimed at Muslims.

So? Don't Muslims have the right to teach their own kids what they want?

 

[aociswundumho]

What the OP convienantly left out of the article:

I left it out because it's irrelevant. In my view, Muslims have the same rights as Christians or atheists.

 

[HonestJoe]

There are lots of things kids are taught that I strongly object to. Some examples are FDR was a good president, fascism is right wing, government regulation is a net benefit to society, etc, but parents have the right to teach their kids lies if they want to.

So you do care what other people teach their children and there are lots of things you don't think should be taught to children. You just don't think anyone should do anything about it. It's a subtle but significant distinction.

I also wonder if your position is unlimited. Is there anything a parent could teach/indoctrinate their children that you believe would justify anyone outside taking any action in response? "Rape isn't wrong", "[Group of people] are subhuman and should all be killed", "The world will end next week so everyone should commit suicide"

 

[aociswundumho]

So you do care what other people teach their children and there are lots of things you don't think should be taught to children. You just don't think anyone should do anything about it. It's a subtle but significant distinction.

Yes, because no one has the moral right to do anything about it. Note that this is your position as well. You would never use force and violence in order to prevent a parent from teaching their child something you strongly disapprove of. If it's morally wrong for you do to it, then it's morally wrong for a state agent to do it. The morality of an action doesn't change just because a person is wearing a blue costume.

I also wonder if your position is unlimited. Is there anything a parent could teach/indoctrinate their children that you believe would justify anyone outside taking any action in response?

No.

 

[HonestJoe]

Yes, because no one has the moral right to do anything about it. Note that this is your position as well. You would never use force and violence in order to prevent a parent from teaching their child something you strongly disapprove of.

I have physically intervened against a father trying to teach his daughter that she had to return home and submit to the abuse she'd been suffering and that he had the right to punch her in the face until she did what he demanded of her.

If it's morally wrong for you do to it, then it's morally wrong for a state agent to do it.

You've not established that it is always morally wrong for someone to intervene in anything a parent does to their child.

No.

Then you should correct your political leaning from "libertarian" to "anarchist". Your implication is that individuals should be free to do whatever they want regardless of the risks or consequences and nobody else should do anything or even care in any circumstances.

 

[TheParser]

Very bad news, indeed!

Quite possibly some French students (just like some American students) feel unsafe in their state-sponsored schools and would be more comfortable being educated at home.

I fear that some members of President Biden's administration will seek to forbid home schooling, too. This would be disastrous for those parents who cannot afford private school.

 

[ProgressPlease]

FRANCE France moves to ban homeschooling in 2021 - National Association of Catholic Families

LifeSiteNews reports : French president Emmanuel Macron announced on Friday morning that he intends to outlaw homeschooling for all children except those who have a health condition that would justify staying away from school. He Read more…

www.cfnews.org.uk

Looks like the totalitarian political left is at it again:

Got to make sure the kids are properly indoctrinated with politically correct beliefs.

I can't help but be reminded of the words from a famous, life-long socialist:

"Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."

Macron is a conservative.

France is and has always been very patriotic and wants to make sure students learn proper French history and preserve proper French language.
See the requirements for citizenship. They are aimed at making sure immigrants assimilate, learn the language (language requirement before gaining citizenship) and respect the country.

France is a secular country and does not want religious zealots teaching their children and preventing them from receiving any other information. This is considered mainly a muslim issue in France.

Just as in the US, there are plenty of homeschooling families in France. Some are under the radar and others are not.
In the US, depending on the state, it is very very difficult to homeschool. Some states are highly regulated and others are not.
The states where homeschooling families are religious fundamentalists are less regulated, interestingly.

School is "compulsory" in the US as well. Same with vaccines. There are exemptions to both.

 

[aociswundumho]

Macron is a conservative.

From his wikipedia page:

Overall, Macron is largely seen as a centrist. Some observers describe him as a social liberal and others call him a social democrat. During his time in the French Socialist Party, he supported the party's centrist wing, whose political stance has been associated with Third Way policies advanced by Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and Gerhard Schröder, and whose leading spokesman has been former prime minister Manuel Valls.

Yea, sounds like me and him have much in common, and by much I mean nothing.

France is and has always been very patriotic and wants to make sure students learn proper French history and preserve proper French language.
See the requirements for citizenship. They are aimed at making sure immigrants assimilate, learn the language (language requirement before gaining citizenship) and respect the country.

That's not gonna happen. Islam is against free speech, freedom of religion, and equal rights for women, for starters. They want nothing to do with Western society, and we should want nothing to do with them, as every country in the world with over a 30% Muslim population is a complete shithole.

France is a secular country and does not want religious zealots teaching their children and preventing them from receiving any other information.

Well, as the philosopher Jagger once said, you can't always get what you want.

 

[aociswundumho]

I have physically intervened against a father trying to teach his daughter that she had to return home and submit to the abuse she'd been suffering and that he had the right to punch her in the face until she did what he demanded of her.

Congrats on building the world's biggest straw man. My claim was "You would never use force and violence in order to prevent a parent from teaching their child something you strongly disapprove of", while your example here is about a father physically harming his daughter.

You've not established that it is always morally wrong for someone to intervene in anything a parent does to their child.

Correct, because that's not what I said. I'm guessing you learned to read in a government-run school. The claim was that it's morally wrong to use force and violence in order to prevent a parent from teaching their child something you strongly disapprove of. Again, you and every person reading this agrees with it.

 

[ProgressPlease]

From his wikipedia page:

Yea, sounds like me and him have much in common, and by much I mean nothing.

That's not gonna happen. Islam is against free speech, freedom of religion, and equal rights for women, for starters. They want nothing to do with Western society, and we should want nothing to do with them, as every country in the world with over a 30% Muslim population is a complete shithole.

Well, as the philosopher Jagger once said, you can't always get what you want.

If your version of conservative is Marine Le Pen or Donald Trump than you would not consider Macron conservative. French people do. By the way, Clinton was also conservative, though not republican.

Islam doesn't have any worse treatment of women than christianity. Both have extreme versions, like all organized religions. Same with control of speech, followers, rights, etc.