• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

France allows unions to hold its economy and government hostage.

N

Neomalthusian

DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
10,825
Reaction score
3,348
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Labor cartels have always been a cancer on society.
 
aociswundumho said:
Labor cartels have always been a cancer on society.
Click to expand...

Yes look at the terrible things they have done like getting rid of child labor, the creation of collective bargaining and the 40 hour week. Speaking about cancer those terrible unions even fought to keep workers from being exposed to cancer causing materials. Just imagine the impact on profits.
 
redrover said:
Yes look at the terrible things they have done like getting rid of child labor,
Click to expand...

If the family is poor, then the kids have to work, just like they worked on American farms for most of our history. Banning child labor in poor countries forces the kids into prostitution or drugs, and makes them worse off. On the plus side, such laws do make white liberals feel really good.

the creation of collective bargaining
Click to expand...

It's not bargaining if one party can't legally walk away.

and the 40 hour week.
Click to expand...

You can thank Henry Ford for that.
 

Well today they’re public sector unions shutting down a national economy of a country that already has just about the most exceedingly generous labor standards in the world.

So thanks for the history lesson, but these circumstances are a tad different.
 

Keaton-Owen Child Labor Act limited child labor (along with many other bills from 1906 on)............not the unions.
 
less right said:
The cancer that got us a 40 hour work week and a day off in September.
Click to expand...

wonderful

what have they done in the last 60 so odd years other than destroy most of the american manufacturing base?

they were great and needed in the early 1900's thru maybe the 1940-50's

after that, they have become a blight...a cancer...problems

take a look at the California public employees union and the issues it has caused....

300k a year sherriffs? 250k town bookkeepers? the fraud and abuse is so rampant it is ludicrious

if i still lived out there, i would petition the governor to have every one of those contracts voided and renegotiated

and fire everyone who wont do it.....the schools arent much better....utter thievery
 

Unions aren't a perfect solution that's for sure, but without them I believe all our working conditions would be worse.

I'm with you on public unions. Many of them need to be re-jiggered to make it fair for both workers and taxpayers. Too many have become money pits for the taxpayer.
 
aociswundumho said:
Labor cartels have always been a cancer on society.
Click to expand...

Yeah, take us back to the glory days of child labor, no overtime, the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire, and signs in the plant that said “If you don’t show up Sunday, don’t show up Monday.”
 
RetiredUSN said:
Keaton-Owen Child Labor Act limited child labor (along with many other bills from 1906 on)............not the unions.
Click to expand...

Somehow I think unions played a part in support of the Act.
 
Nickyjo said:
Somehow I think unions played a part in support of the Act.
Click to expand...

The AFL first came out against child labor in 1881, and pushed legislation. Keaton Owen followed some years later. Question: why do you think unions would NOT support such legislation, given their other fights for other worker protection? Keaton-Owen was declared unconstitutional, but many states made their own laws.
 
Moderate Right said:
France has a lot of problems, proof that liberalism or (democratic) socialism doesn't work.
Click to expand...

And so does the USA. "So proof that religious conservatism or capitalism doesn't work." Right?
 
JustHanging said:
And so does the USA. "So proof that religious conservatism or capitalism doesn't work." Right?
Click to expand...

Ummmmmmm. We have the largest economy in the world and it is going strong while many other countries in the world are tanking.
 

Robotics and 10 cent an hour wages in China killed most of manufacturing here, not the unions.

I've never been in a union a day in my life, but starting in the 60's virtually every manufacturing business I've known of around where I lived or been a part of has moved out of the country.
 
aociswundumho said:
No, it isn't. For one thing, only about half of the population in the US works.
Click to expand...

And the rest of society is pretty much supported by them. They are society.
 

The right's hatred of workers having power, rights, better wages is one of the top insanities in our country.

They fight for slavery for themselves. I understand some of the greedy rich doing it, uncaring, but the rest of them...
 
Unions = Cancer
 
Felis Leo said:
"Allows" unions? I mean, I see no problem with people refusing to work (as long as they are not emergency services) so long as they are not committing crimes or property destruction when they do so.
Click to expand...

Note these are public sector workers looking to cripple public sector services and infrastructure that the rest of the society/economy relies on. Imagine if unions you have nothing to do with barricaded the roads between your house and your workplace. Imagine if your company relies on public roadways to transport things, and unions barricaded the roads until their demands were met. That's very much akin to what is going on in France.

In our case, the federal government regulates interstate commerce, for the purpose of not allowing certain groups to be able to interfere with and hold hostage other entities' interstate commercial activities and apply tariffs or ransom. Society doesn't work when groups of people are allowed to shut society down until their demands are met. Governments have lawmaking power, so for this to even happen in France requires the French government and people's willingness to allow it. The government could just pass laws that forbid these antics, and do not allow anyone, labor union or otherwise, to shut down public services and commerce until their demands are met.
 
aociswundumho said:
Labor cartels have always been a cancer on society.
Click to expand...

The only cancer is the right wing nonsense that laborers are offal.

Spare us your inane screed.
 
Craig234 said:
The right's hatred of workers having power, rights, better wages is one of the top insanities in our country.
Click to expand...

You would apparently be happy if unions had the power to literally shut down this country until they get whatever they desire.

Would you be in favor of unions blocking access to hospitals and letting people die without care until their demands are met?
Would you be in favor of police unions refusing to provide public safety services until their demands are met?
Would you be in favor of tech unions shutting off internet access to tens of millions of people until their demands are met?
Would you be in favor of fire unions letting houses burn until their demands are met?

Either you think unions should be able to hold entire nations and societies hostage until their demands are met, or you don't. If you do, you're an insane person. If you don't, you're a reasonable person, like me. What's going on in France is insanity. The government allows it. That's crazy.

This topic is not about "hatred of workers having power, rights, better wages." It's about unions (albeit in a different country) being allowed to shut down the public services their society relies on until their demands are met.

Countries that go to war with one another try to do this (among other tactics). They try to disrupt the enemy country's public services and transportation infrastructure the country needs just to function. These tactics are economic civil warfare. For you to whine that this is all about "hating workers" is the only real insanity here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…