Fox - Cons lament over Afghan

[grip]

Fox News and conservatives cry every day about what a "blunder" pulling out of Afghanistan was. Yet there have been over 2300 American soldiers' deaths since the beginning of the occupation. How many more soldiers dying and injured do the war supporters want by staying or did that not factor into their calculations?

There was no easy way to pull out without inflicting massive civilian casualties and risk more soldiers' demises over a more heavy-handed, armed evacuation. Biden's plan successfully transported thousands of US and Afghan support personnel out of the country before the Taliban/ISIS could coordinate more suicide bombers and attacks.

I've never seen a more dishonest bunch of phony "payback" criticism for Trump's shellacking from a party that extolls the virtue of an endless 20-year occupation with nothing but cost in lives and money for such bleak successes.

You can trust the US alphabet agencies and Military Intel will be monitoring for any serious terrorist group buildups or plans for attacks on western assets and allies.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Fox News and conservatives cry every day about what a "blunder" pulling out of Afghanistan was. Yet there have been over 2300 American soldiers' deaths since the beginning of the occupation. How many more soldiers dying and injured do the war supporters want by staying or did that not factor into their calculations?

There was no easy way to pull out without inflicting massive civilian casualties and risk more soldiers' demises over a more heavy-handed, armed evacuation. Biden's plan successfully transported thousands of US and Afghan support personnel out of the country before the Taliban/ISIS could coordinate more suicide bombers and attacks.

I've never seen a more dishonest bunch of phony "payback" criticism for Trump's shellacking from a party that extolls the virtue of an endless 20-year occupation with nothing but cost in lives and money for such bleak successes.

You can trust the US alphabet agencies and Military Intel will be monitoring for any serious terrorist group buildups or plans for attacks on western assets and allies.

Get the story straight. Yes some republicans are unhappy about the pullout of Afghanistan, but so are many democrats. The same is true of Fox but many on CNN and other networks have expressed a lot of concern and wonder at how the withdrawal was handled. Major point of agreement, total lack of a comprehensive plan, and the fact that we left Americans behind. "The fact is 90% of Americans who wanted out, got out" Joe Biden.
The real issue now is the lack of planning, the refusal to listen to military leaders who wanted to keep Bagram, increase the number of troops so they could, keep Bagram, (we know this because of leaks reported on CNN), maintain the Embassy and police the city of Kabul while the withdrawal took place. Biden told the military experts no. He kept the force down which forced the military to move to Kabul, hard to defend, choke points for those trying to get to the airport, meant the US forces could not go out and get our people and bring them in. As they realized the HKIA was going to be a problem to defend and process the 10's of thousands trying to get into the airport, Biden agreed to move in about 4,000 more troops. Only after he realized his State Dept people and his plan was going terribly did he bring in more troops but still kept them in Kabul. So since you are being dishonest or ingorant of the truth you opinion means little. Biden screwed up a plan that included conditions be met before the US would withdraw, Biden undid the conditions. It's all on him for the way this was handled. FACT!

 

[grip]

Get the story straight. Yes some republicans are unhappy about the pullout of Afghanistan, but so are many democrats. The same is true of Fox but many on CNN and other networks have expressed a lot of concern and wonder at how the withdrawal was handled. Major point of agreement, total lack of a comprehensive plan, and the fact that we left Americans behind. "The fact is 90% of Americans who wanted out, got out" Joe Biden.
The real issue now is the lack of planning, the refusal to listen to military leaders who wanted to keep Bagram, increase the number of troops so they could, keep Bagram, (we know this because of leaks reported on CNN), maintain the Embassy and police the city of Kabul while the withdrawal took place. Biden told the military experts no. He kept the force down which forced the military to move to Kabul, hard to defend, choke points for those trying to get to the airport, meant the US forces could not go out and get our people and bring them in. As they realized the HKIA was going to be a problem to defend and process the 10's of thousands trying to get into the airport, Biden agreed to move in about 4,000 more troops. Only after he realized his State Dept people and his plan was going terribly did he bring in more troops but still kept them in Kabul. So since you are being dishonest or ingorant of the truth you opinion means little. Biden screwed up a plan that included conditions be met before the US would withdraw, Biden undid the conditions. It's all on him for the way this was handled. FACT!

You don't know that any other plan wouldn't have cost more lives.

 

[Roadvirus]

You can trust the US alphabet agencies and Military Intel will be monitoring for any serious terrorist group buildups or plans for attacks on western assets and allies.

Yeah. They did a damn good job at keeping an eye out for those guys who hit the Kabul Airport, killing dozens of civilians and 13 US Marines.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Get the story straight. Yes some republicans are unhappy about the pullout of Afghanistan, but so are many democrats. The same is true of Fox but many on CNN and other networks have expressed a lot of concern and wonder at how the withdrawal was handled. Major point of agreement, total lack of a comprehensive plan, and the fact that we left Americans behind. "The fact is 90% of Americans who wanted out, got out" Joe Biden.
The real issue now is the lack of planning, the refusal to listen to military leaders who wanted to keep Bagram, increase the number of troops so they could, keep Bagram, (we know this because of leaks reported on CNN), maintain the Embassy and police the city of Kabul while the withdrawal took place. Biden told the military experts no. He kept the force down which forced the military to move to Kabul, hard to defend, choke points for those trying to get to the airport, meant the US forces could not go out and get our people and bring them in. As they realized the HKIA was going to be a problem to defend and process the 10's of thousands trying to get into the airport, Biden agreed to move in about 4,000 more troops. Only after he realized his State Dept people and his plan was going terribly did he bring in more troops but still kept them in Kabul. So since you are being dishonest or ingorant of the truth you opinion means little. Biden screwed up a plan that included conditions be met before the US would withdraw, Biden undid the conditions. It's all on him for the way this was handled. FACT!

But here's an issue you overlook, why was the Afghan government so weak that melted away the second the US stopped fighting its wars for it, despite the US government pumping several billion dollars into it for 2 decades?

If the Afghan government was that weak and corrupt, the pullout would have been messy no matter who did it.

You can accuse Biden of mistakes regarding the pullout, but the pullout would have been messy no matter who did it. The issues are structural, neither Biden nor Trump were super villains who ruined a good situation, really Bush setting up such a bad government in Afghanistan deserves a lot of blame here.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

But here's an issue you overlook, why was the Afghan government so weak that melted away the second the US stopped fighting its wars for it, despite the US government pumping several billion dollars into it for 2 decades?

If the Afghan government was that weak and corrupt, the pullout would have been messy no matter who did it.

You can accuse Biden of mistakes regarding the pullout, but the pullout would have been messy no matter who did it. The issues are structural, neither Biden nor Trump were super villains who ruined a good situation, really Bush setting up such a bad government in Afghanistan deserves a lot of blame here.

The pullout included lying to American citizens about the danger level and many are still in Afghanistan practically as hostages,

you cannot justify that as much as you squirm and screech

 

[Yes_Minister]

The pullout included lying to American citizens about the danger level and many are still in Afghanistan practically as hostages,

you cannot justify that as much as you squirm and screech

I just think something like this inevitable, it's either pullout and watch the Afghan government melt away or spend eternity propping up said weak government. Biden was not a super villain who ruined a good situation, the situation was bad for decades.

You can critique Biden for errors with the pullout, but this pullout would have been messy regardless of who did it or when it happened.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I just think something like this inevitable, it's either pullout and watch the Afghan government melt away or spend eternity propping up said weak government. Biden was not a super villain who ruined a good situation, the situation was bad for decades.

You can critique Biden for errors with the pullout, but this pullout would have been messy regardless of who did it or when it happened.

Please, keep justifying needlessly risking citizens lives and lying to the public.

I have no problem with the left sticking with the narrative leaving citizens behind as hostages is acceptable because they believed the lies told by their government.

 

[Grand Mal]

The pullout included lying to American citizens about the danger level and many are still in Afghanistan practically as hostages,

you cannot justify that as much as you squirm and screech

Any Americans still in Afghanistan ignored the Embassy telling them in no uncertain terms to get out in early August and offering them loans if they couldn't afford to. They gambled that they would be rescued at the last minute.

"The U.S. Embassy urges U.S. citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately using available commercial flight options. Given the security conditions and reduced staffing, the Embassy’s ability to assist U.S. citizens in Afghanistan is extremely limited even within Kabul."

"The U.S. Embassy can provide a repatriation loan for U.S. citizens who cannot afford at this time to purchase a commercial ticket to the United States. Please contact the Embassy’s American Citizen Services Unit at KabulACS@state.gov for further information."

Security Alert U.S. Embassy Kabul, Afghanistan (August 7, 2021)

Location: Throughout Afghanistan The U.S. Embassy urges U.S. citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately using available commercial flight options. Given

af.usembassy.gov

That was Aug. 7 but the whole world knew last spring that America was pulling out.
You can't fix stupid. Sometimes you can't even protect it from itself.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Please, keep justifying needlessly risking citizens lives and lying to the public.

I have no problem with the left sticking with the narrative leaving citizens behind as hostages is acceptable because they believed the lies told by their government.

If you are an American who choose to live in a warzone like Afghanistan, you knew the risks involved.

American soldiers have been dying in Afghanistan for decades, do the 13 solders who were killed by ISIS K recently matter than American soldiers and far more Afghan civilians who died over the last 2 decades. Spare me your crocodile tears.

What do you want to come to the aide of the various Neo Cons who want to invade Afghanistan again?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Any Americans still in Afghanistan ignored the Embassy telling them in no uncertain terms to get out in early August and offering them loans if they couldn't afford to. They gambled that they would be rescued at the last minute.

"The U.S. Embassy urges U.S. citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately using available commercial flight options. Given the security conditions and reduced staffing, the Embassy’s ability to assist U.S. citizens in Afghanistan is extremely limited even within Kabul."

"The U.S. Embassy can provide a repatriation loan for U.S. citizens who cannot afford at this time to purchase a commercial ticket to the United States. Please contact the Embassy’s American Citizen Services Unit at KabulACS@state.gov for further information."

Security Alert U.S. Embassy Kabul, Afghanistan (August 7, 2021)

Location: Throughout Afghanistan The U.S. Embassy urges U.S. citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately using available commercial flight options. Given

af.usembassy.gov

That was Aug. 7 but the whole world knew last spring that America was pulling out.
You can't fix stupid. Sometimes you can't even protect it from itself.

Please keep justifying lying to Americans to leave them in country and refusing to acknowledge any problem.

 

[Grand Mal]

Please keep justifying lying to Americans to leave them in country and refusing to acknowledge any problem.

Can you even read? What part of, "The U.S. Embassy urges U.S. citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately using available commercial flight options." tells you the US government wanted to keep Americans there?
Christsake.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If you are an American who choose to live in a warzone like Afghanistan, you knew the risks involved.

American soldiers have been dying in Afghanistan for decades, do the 13 solders who were killed by ISIS K recently matter than American soldiers and far more Afghan civilians who died over the last 2 decades. Spare me your crocodile tears.

What do you want to come to the aide of the various Neo Cons who want to invade Afghanistan again?

No Americans had died for 18 months and then Biden ordered this fiasco and thirteen died and many more were left behind. And you want to claim that this incompetence somehow was good? Lol keep running on that.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Can you even read? What part of, "The U.S. Embassy urges U.S. citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately using available commercial flight options." tells you the US government wanted to keep Americans there?
Christsake.

Please, keep lying for Biden.
And also I guess it helps you didn’t look at a calendar or a web archive service to see this warning was issued days before the Taliban entered Kabul and was buried in the embassy website and not the State department main site as a red banner warning and while Biden continued to lie. But hey if leftists couldn’t lie who would they be?

 

[Yes_Minister]

No Americans had died for 18 months and then Biden ordered this fiasco and thirteen died and many more were left behind. And you want to claim that this incompetence somehow was good? Lol keep running on that.

So US soldiers' deaths in 2017 or 2013 or 2005 or any other year I think of are irrelevant now? You also don't seem to give a damn about the Afghan civilians who died during this war and the corrupt government the US set up there that failed immediately. What evidence do you have that anything would have been better if Trump pulled out 2 years ago? Do you want these forever wars to end or not? Because the end to the forever wars will not be pretty.

I actually don't care about Biden's reputation, he is a big boy, he can take care of himself. I just want to end the forever wars and want conservatives to admit the role they played in starting these forever wars. Tell me, how many conservatives supported these forever wars back when they were worshiping George W. Bush like an idol?

Conservatives want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to the forever wars, they start them in the first place, then they claim to oppose them and now they want to bring back the forever wars when Biden had to deal with the fallout from pulling out, they also complain about Biden leaving Afghan allies behind, but do not want them to be resettled in the US, you guys have no real values:

Trump leads turn against Afghan refugees after saying he’d take them in

Comes after Trump had initially said he would help Afghans who worked with US army

www.independent.co.uk

 

[vesper]

Fox News and conservatives cry every day about what a "blunder" pulling out of Afghanistan was. Yet there have been over 2300 American soldiers' deaths since the beginning of the occupation. How many more soldiers dying and injured do the war supporters want by staying or did that not factor into their calculations?

There was no easy way to pull out without inflicting massive civilian casualties and risk more soldiers' demises over a more heavy-handed, armed evacuation. Biden's plan successfully transported thousands of US and Afghan support personnel out of the country before the Taliban/ISIS could coordinate more suicide bombers and attacks.

I've never seen a more dishonest bunch of phony "payback" criticism for Trump's shellacking from a party that extolls the virtue of an endless 20-year occupation with nothing but cost in lives and money for such bleak successes.

You can trust the US alphabet agencies and Military Intel will be monitoring for any serious terrorist group buildups or plans for attacks on western assets and allies.

The way Biden went about it was a ****ing blunder and if you are not willing to recognize that then you are being intellectually dishonest. And for you to claim conservatives never wanting this war to come to an end is a ****ing lie.

You now claim all our alphabet agencies will keep us safe. Really? That was the same ****ing mindset that failed us allowing 9/11 to happen. The very reason we went into Afghanistan.

We can all have our opinions on it was a mistake to stay so long and that is well and good. And most in this country agree it was time to end our stay in Afghanistan. But the way Biden did it was a total FUBAR. A total disgusting disgrace to all those who sacrificed so much during the past 20 years.

Thanks to Obama/Biden the soldiers that gave so much to capture the heads of the Taliban, were released from GITMO by Obama/Biden for the deserter Bergdahl and thanks to Biden/Harris these bastards will be recognized as the leadership of Afghanistan on the 20th anniversary of 9/11. And we are now having to deal with the Taliban to get Americans out that Biden left behind. What a ****ing disgrace.

 

[Peter]

The US and Allies had to leave at some point and I have a feeling any time would have been a disaster.

 

[Yes_Minister]

The way Biden went about it was a ****ing blunder and if you are not willing to recognize that then you are being intellectually dishonest. And for you to claim conservatives never wanting this war to come to an end is a ****ing lie.

You now claim all our alphabet agencies will keep us safe. Really? That was the same ****ing mindset that failed us allowing 9/11 to happen. The very reason we went into Afghanistan.

We can all have our opinions on it was a mistake to stay so long and that is well and good. And most in this country agree it was time to end our stay in Afghanistan. But the way Biden did it was a total FUBAR. A total disgusting disgrace to all those who sacrificed so much during the past 20 years.

Thanks to Obama/Biden the soldiers that gave so much to capture the heads of the Taliban, were released from GITMO by Obama/Biden for the deserter Bergdahl and thanks to Biden/Harris these bastards will be recognize as the leadership of Afghanistan on the 20th anniversary of 9/11. And we are now having to deal with the Taliban to get Americans out that Biden left behind. What a ****ing disgrace.

If the Afghan government was so weak that it melted away so quickly, how would you pull out of Afghanistan in a more clean manner?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

So US soldiers' deaths in 2017 or 2013 or 2005 or any other year I think of are irrelevant now? You also don't seem to give a damn about the Afghan civilians who died during this war and the corrupt government the US set up there that failed immediately. What evidence do you have that anything would have been better if Trump pulled out 2 years? Do you want these forever wars to end or not? Because the end to the forever wars will not be pretty.

I actually don't care about Biden's reputation, he is a big boy, he can take care of himself. I just want to end the forever wars and want conservatives to admit the role they played in starting these forever wars. Tell me, how many conservatives supported these forever wars back when they were worshiping George W. Bush like an idol?

Conservatives want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to the forever wars, they start them in the first place, then they claim to oppose them and now they want to bring back the forever wars when Biden had to deal with the fallout from pulling out, they also complain about Biden leaving Afghan allies behind, but do not want them to be resettled in the US, you guys have no real values:

Trump leads turn against Afghan refugees after saying he’d take them in

Comes after Trump had initially said he would help Afghans who worked with US army

www.independent.co.uk

The forever wars rhetoric is not going to work, you are trying to justify causing the needles deaths of American servicemen and stranding of Americans in Afghanistan while lying to the public. if you have problems with the war you can bring it up to Biden who voted to start it in the first place. I’m not taking the bait.

 

[Yes_Minister]

The forever wars rhetoric is not going to work, you are trying to justify causing the needles deaths of American servicemen and stranding of Americans in Afghanistan while lying to the public. if you have problems with the war you can bring it up to Biden who voted to start it in the first place. I’m not taking the bait.

If you are an American who chooses to serve or work in Afghanistan, you knew the risks of working in a war zone. Americans still have an easier path of getting out of Afghanistan than Afghans did, they are screwed because they live there.

Yeah, Biden voted for the war, pretty well everyone did besides Barbara Lee who got death threats for it. You know Bush was the driving force behind this war and started letting things go to pot so he can go on an oil adventure in Iraq. Does that make Biden right for voting for the war? No. But you want to paint this picture that everything was fine in Afghanistan till Biden pulled because conservatives never want to take personal responsibility for their actions, like starting these wars in the first place. Seems like your neo-cons buddies are using this messy pullout as an excuse to continue the forever wars.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If you are an American who chooses to serve or work in Afghanistan, you knew the risks of working in a war zone. Americans still have an easier path of getting out of Afghanistan than Afghans did, they are screwed because they live there.

Yeah, Biden voted for the war, pretty well everyone did besides Barbara Lee who got death threats for it. You know Bush was the driving force behind this war and started letting things go to pot so he can go on an oil adventure in Iraq. Does that make Biden right for voting for the war? No. But you want to paint this picture that everything was fine in Afghanistan till Biden pulled because conservatives never want to take personal responsibility for their actions, like starting these wars in the first place. Seems like your neo-cons buddies are using this messy pullout as an excuse to continue the forever wars.

Ok, so you support lying to Americans and getting them needlessly killed to protect Biden at all costs. You can just say that instead of the fake moralism

 

[Yes_Minister]

Ok, so you support lying to Americans and getting them needlessly killed to protect Biden at all costs. You can just say that instead of the fake moralism

No, I support ending the forever wars and I knew the end was going to be messy no matter who did it. You think Biden messed it up, fine, I don't care about Biden, he is not my guy, and I do not worship certain politicians like Trump supporters do but I doubt if Trump left 2 years ago or some other President left 10 years now, that the result would be different. If you want to say Biden mishandled the pullout, that's fine, but to say Biden is solely to blame is being intentionally blind to the structural issues that undermined this venture from the start, I would Bush, then Obama, then Trump and lastly Biden, in that order, I think liberals trying to solely blame Trump for this are wrong too, if you blame anyone, it should be Bush, he started this war and had no plans to end it.




Do you want the forever wars to end or not?

 

[upsideguy]

Get the story straight. Yes some republicans are unhappy about the pullout of Afghanistan, but so are many democrats. The same is true of Fox but many on CNN and other networks have expressed a lot of concern and wonder at how the withdrawal was handled. Major point of agreement, total lack of a comprehensive plan, and the fact that we left Americans behind. "The fact is 90% of Americans who wanted out, got out" Joe Biden.
The real issue now is the lack of planning, the refusal to listen to military leaders who wanted to keep Bagram, increase the number of troops so they could, keep Bagram, (we know this because of leaks reported on CNN), maintain the Embassy and police the city of Kabul while the withdrawal took place. Biden told the military experts no. He kept the force down which forced the military to move to Kabul, hard to defend, choke points for those trying to get to the airport, meant the US forces could not go out and get our people and bring them in. As they realized the HKIA was going to be a problem to defend and process the 10's of thousands trying to get into the airport, Biden agreed to move in about 4,000 more troops. Only after he realized his State Dept people and his plan was going terribly did he bring in more troops but still kept them in Kabul. So since you are being dishonest or ingorant of the truth you opinion means little. Biden screwed up a plan that included conditions be met before the US would withdraw, Biden undid the conditions. It's all on him for the way this was handled. FACT!

I don't disagree with that much of your post except your final point. What you laid out here is opinion (with a fair amount of conjecture layered in), not fact. Too many people confuse the two, as you did here.

That all said, you, I and many are giving the man a grade before the project is complete. As ugly as the pull-out looked three weeks ago, in the end, it was actually a reasonable remarkable military exercise.... airlifting 120,000 people in about 10 days in a hostile environment is minimal loss of life.

The fragility of the Afghan government is not on Biden, but on his three predecessors that each get blame for perpetuating a war we are were not winning. Should Biden have known how fragile the government was? maybe.

But, I think the lens of history will actually give Biden a good grade for finally ending the Afghan war and getting people out quickly and safely. This chapter, however, continues to be written.

 

[Grand Mal]

Please, keep lying for Biden.
And also I guess it helps you didn’t look at a calendar or a web archive service to see this warning was issued days before the Taliban entered Kabul and was buried in the embassy website and not the State department main site as a red banner warning and while Biden continued to lie. But hey if leftists couldn’t lie who would they be?

That warning was posted by the Embassy on 7 Aug. The Taliban didn't get to Kabul till the 15th. Here's the CBS report...

U.S. urges Americans in Afghanistan to leave immediately

A security alert urges Americans to leave on commercial flights as Taliban militants are attacking Afghan cities.

www.cbsnews.com

And here's the official US Embassy alert...

Security Alert U.S. Embassy Kabul, Afghanistan (August 7, 2021)

Location: Throughout Afghanistan The U.S. Embassy urges U.S. citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately using available commercial flight options. Given

af.usembassy.gov

And Here's the timeline...

Timeline: The Taliban's rapid advance across Afghanistan

Taliban insurgents began entering Kabul on Sunday after taking control of all of Afghanistan's major cities apart from the capital. The following are some of the major milestones in the Islamist militant movement's advance in recent months.

www.reuters.com

"Aug. 15 - The Taliban take the key eastern city of Jalalabad without a fight, effectively surrounding Kabul."

"- Aug. 15 - Taliban insurgents enter Kabul, an interior ministry official says, as the United States evacuate diplomats from its embassy by helicopter."

Don't call me a liar, not while you're up to your oxsters in lies, deceit and misinformation. You lie here, you lie there, you lie everywhere. And you're lying again in this thread.
This must be very important to you to make you turn yourself into a liar for the sake of advancing your dishonest narrative.

 

[Yes_Minister]

That warning was posted by the Embassy on 7 Aug. The Taliban didn't get to Kabul till the 15th. Here's the CBS report...

U.S. urges Americans in Afghanistan to leave immediately

A security alert urges Americans to leave on commercial flights as Taliban militants are attacking Afghan cities.

www.cbsnews.com

And here's the official US Embassy alert...

Security Alert U.S. Embassy Kabul, Afghanistan (August 7, 2021)

Location: Throughout Afghanistan The U.S. Embassy urges U.S. citizens to leave Afghanistan immediately using available commercial flight options. Given

af.usembassy.gov

Don't call me a liar, not while you're up to your oxsters in lies, deceit and misinformation. You lie here, you lie there, you lie everywhere. And you're lying again in this thread.
This must be very important to you to make you turn yourself into a liar for the sake of advancing your dishonest narrative.

I don't trust him, he probably wants a Fraco style Fuhrer to rule over the US and if he thinks playing politics with Afghanistan can get him closer to that goal, that is fine by him.