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Foundation of a New Climate Paradigm

Jack Hays said:
No more was needed to make the point that actual observations don't fit into the AGW paradigm. That point was conceded in the paper.
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Sorry Jack, but the "AGW paradigm" doesn't say that all parts of the planet are going to warm the same. Or that there won't be areas that cool while the planet as a whole warms. You would know this if you actually had the ability to understand the science of AGW.
 
Buzz said:
Sorry Jack, but the "AGW paradigm" doesn't say that all parts of the planet are going to warm the same. Or that there won't be areas that cool while the planet as a whole warms. You would know this if you actually had the ability to understand the science of AGW.
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And yet the authors felt compelled to write, and you felt compelled to quote:

Continued analysis of climatologically anomalous regions, like the SAM, is crucial to understanding the impact of naturally occurring global and hemispheric forcings in masking or amplifying the impacts of the warming global climate.

All based on the assumption that there's some larger trend to defend. In fact, it's the "anomaly" that's fundamental.
 
Jack Hays said:
And yet the authors felt compelled to write, and you felt compelled to quote:

Continued analysis of climatologically anomalous regions, like the SAM, is crucial to understanding the impact of naturally occurring global and hemispheric forcings in masking or amplifying the impacts of the warming global climate.

All based on the assumption that there's some larger trend to defend. In fact, it's the "anomaly" that's fundamental.
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Yes... defending the larger trend from denialists like you who cite studies like this and present them in a dishonest and misleading way.
 
Buzz said:
Yes... defending the larger trend from denialists like you who cite studies like this and present them in a dishonest and misleading way.
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Aw shucks. Everything was so nice and then you had to start whining.
 
Jack Hays said:
Aw shucks. Everything was so nice and then you had to start whining.
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Not a whine. Just a statement of fact that you can't refute.
 
Jack Hays said:
You start using words like "dishonest" and "misleading" when the shortcomings of the AGW paradigm are (again) exposed.
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What shortcoming is that? That the whole planet doesn't warm at the same rate and that there may be areas that see cooling??

:lamo

You really are clueless about climate change.
 
Buzz said:
What shortcoming is that? That the whole planet doesn't warm at the same rate and that there may be areas that see cooling??

:lamo

You really are clueless about climate change.
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I'm not the one who felt the need to include a caveat in a paper.
 
Jack Hays said:
I'm not the one who felt the need to include a caveat in a paper.
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Do you mean the caveat that points out that this area's cooling is anomalous? A caveat meant for denialists just like you who did exactly what they knew you were going to do?

:lamo
 
Buzz said:
Do you mean the caveat that points out that this area's cooling is anomalous? A caveat meant for denialists just like you who did exactly what they knew you were going to do?

:lamo
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Wouldn't be necessary without the unexamined assumption as a basis.

masking or amplifying the impacts of the warming global climate.
 
Jack Hays said:
Wouldn't be necessary without the unexamined assumption as a basis.

masking or amplifying the impacts of the warming global climate.
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Are you really suggesting that the fact that the planet is warming is an unexamined assumption? That is just stupid.

And it really wouldn't be necessary if there wasn't an army of denialists in this country just like you who love to misinform the public about AGW.
 
Buzz said:
Are you really suggesting that the fact that the planet is warming is an unexamined assumption? That is just stupid.

And it really wouldn't be necessary if there wasn't an army of denialists in this country just like you who love to misinform the public about AGW.
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It is an unexamined assumption that the warming global climate is more fundamental than the factors masking or amplifying it.
 
Jack Hays said:
It is an unexamined assumption that the warming global climate is more fundamental than the factors masking or amplifying it.
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Now you are just grasping at straws and making a fool of yourself. I'm done here.
 
[h=3]He et al., 2019[/h]
Holocene-Cooling-Western-Pacific-He-2019-.jpg
 
Climate News / Ice Ages
Earth’s Ice Ages

By Andy May The phrase “Ice Age” is poorly defined and often abused, so let’s first define the climate state during most ice ages. It is called “Icehouse Earth.” The earth is in an icehouse state when either or both poles are covered in a thick, permanent icecap (Scotese 2015). Today, both poles are covered…

[FONT=&quot]. . . . If the cosmic ray and climate link is true, it could explain why ice ages occur. The density and energy of cosmic rays is higher in the Milky Way arms because there are more stars there (Shaviv 2002). So, the theory suggests that each time the solar system crosses a galactic arm, an ice age could be triggered. This idea was originally developed by Edward Ney of the University of Minnesota (see [/FONT]here[FONT=&quot]) and the details of the theory are explained well by [/FONT]Nir Shaviv[FONT=&quot] (Shaviv 2003). Shaviv also explains that variations in cosmic ray density is recorded in meteorites and that these variations correlate well with the known ice ages and with computed solar system galactic arm transits. . . . .[/FONT]

 
Jack Hays said:
Sorry, but it's not evidence of any such thing.
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Of course it is. If the temperature has decreased in this region since the end of the LIA, as stated in the first highlighted section, then the LIA, by definition, cannot have been global.
 
Surface Detail said:
Of course it is. If the temperature has decreased in this region since the end of the LIA, as stated in the first highlighted section, then the LIA, by definition, cannot have been global.
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No. How do you know the post-LIA decrease was not simply a further decrease?
 
Jack Hays said:
No. How do you know the post-LIA decrease was not simply a further decrease?
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Well, maybe. But in that case, the fact that the LIA had ended means that temperatures must have been increasing throughout most of the rest of the world. So it makes little sense to single out this region as in any way representative of the world as a whole.
 
Surface Detail said:
Well, maybe. But in that case, the fact that the LIA had ended means that temperatures must have been increasing throughout most of the rest of the world. So it makes little sense to single out this region as in any way representative of the world as a whole.
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From the graph, it looks like the decrease began before the LIA and continued right through it.
 
[h=2]Opposition Emerges: German Conservatives Reject EU’s “Green New Deal”…”Threatens Freedom, Prosperity, Economy”[/h]By P Gosselin on 4. January 2020
Press release by the WERTEUNION IN BAVARIA: “The Sun Drives Climate, Not Co2”. The Werte Union (Values Union) in Bavaria decisively rejects “The Green Deal“ and C02-pricing.
werte-Union-Logo.png
Sun drives climate
Munich, December 30, 2019 – The grassroots initiative WerteUnion in Bavaria – Conservative Start – considers it proven that the sun controls the climate, and not carbon dioxide (C02). The new climate laws are therefore insignificant for the climate, yet “threaten the foundations of freedom, prosperity and market economy”, the state level executive said.
In particular, the conservative grassroots movement within the CSU (Christian Socialist Union) criticizes the “Green Deal” presented by EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and the C02 price set by the German government’s climate package, which has now been toughened by raising the C02 price to more than 25 euros per tonne.
Deindustrialization: industries will simply move
The WerteUnion in Bavaria sees this as the first step towards the deindustrialization of Germany. Dr. Thomas Jahn, deputy chairman of the WerteUnion, explained: “The closure of our plants will indeed lead to a reduction in C02 emissions in Germany, but this would not have any positive effect on the environment. The deindustrialization of Germany is rather shifting production to countries with low environmental standards, above all the People’s Republic of China. The WerteUnion in Bavaria sees this as a threat to the fundamental values of the free world, especially the market economy.”. . .

Climate researcher Rex Fleming recently summarized in his published book: ,,[D]ie vorherrschende Definition des Klimawandels – wie sie von den Vereinten Nationen vertreten und durch einen C02-Ausstoß verursacht verstanden wird – ist ein Mythos“ (T]he prevailing definition of climate change – as advocated by the United Nations and understood to be caused by C02 emissions – is a myth) – Rex J. Fleming: The Rise and Fall of the Carbon Dioxide Theory of Climate Change, Springer Nature Switzerland, Cham (CH), 2019.
Call to reopen the debate
On this scientific basis, the WerteUnion Bayern – Konservativer Aufbruch has adopted a climate manifesto calling for a withdrawal of the C02 pricing plans and an open debate on the real causes of climate fluctuations. The document is available on the website of the WerteUnion in Bayern (WerteUnion in Bayern – Konservativer Aufbruch).

 
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