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Foto of the year in Russia

Viking

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Newspaper "Our time" published the foto of the year
made by Vasiliiy Shaposhnikov.
The foto was made August 11, its hero georgian president Saakashvili,
who was brave enough to start genocide of ossetians,
but ran for cover when he heard something in the air.

Vasiliiy_SHaposhnikov.jpg


video of this incident Looks like no one else was scared...:
YouTube - Saakashvili Runs For Cover

more photos:
http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00gyd4d9.jpg
Moderator's Warning:
Photo above stretches browser window. Text link inserted.


34530_600x437.4.jpeg

11geor10.jpg
 
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The foto was made August 11, its hero georgian president Saakashvili,
who was brave enough to start genocide of ossetians
As has been pointed out to you in another thread, no genocide took place in Ossetia. Using the term genocide incorrectly - as you do - does nothing except diminish its intrinsic true meaning.
 
As has been pointed out to you in another thread, no genocide took place in Ossetia. Using the term genocide incorrectly - as you do - does nothing except diminish its intrinsic true meaning.

You can't convince Ossetians to say otherwise. They already survived three of them made by Georgians.
Russian investiators called it "genocide" too.
There are plenty of photo, video and the eyewitness accounts that convince me to say so too.
And if your media prefer to hide what happened in Ossetia as they did August, 7-8 when Georgia attacked Ossetia, until Russia started to react it is your and your media problem.

Popular documentary video:
WAR 08.08.08
Book
http://www.ossetia-war.com/files/all/os_eng.pdf

Site of the public investigation Commission in english
Ossetia-war.com – Public investigation in South Ossetia

More photos
Translated version of http://www.trud.ru/war/photo/chinvali/


Georgians soldiers having "fun" in S.Ossetia, randomly shooting civilian buildings, while there are no backfire, and no Russian Army

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4pyM2LMLU


Some photos:

13.jpg

1220860830_0454.400x300.jpeg

7.jpg
 
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From your dictionary:
1. the deliberate killing of a people or nation
2. the deliberate and systematic extermination of a racial or national group

Can't understand what are your doubts?
You don't quite grasp the concept.

The Ossetian people were not systematically exterminated, nor was the Ossetian nation obliterated.

What you are trying to do is equate war casualties with genocide. The two conditions are not at all equitable.
 
You don't quite grasp the concept.

The Ossetian people were not systematically exterminated, nor was the Ossetian nation obliterated.

What you are trying to do is equate war casualties with genocide. The two conditions are not at all equitable.

The were 3 attempts to do so: 1921, 1991 and now in 2008
the history of Georgian-Ossetian relationships:
Georgian–Ossetian conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Background of the 2008 South Ossetia war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nazi platform in Georgia (Georgia for Georgians):
Georgia for Georgians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also their first president declared something like that:
Osseitians are the garbage that we must wipe out to Russia.
And it cause a war in Ossetia in 1991


So you think that the tank randomly firing at the civilian buildings and the civilians who might killed by such actions are just the casualties of war?
Do you think that the artillery and missile fire on the civilian buildings was not intentional?
 
Also their first president declared something like that: Osseitians are the garbage that we must wipe out to Russia.
Iranian president Amadinejad has said Israel should be wiped off the map. Saying something and actually doing it are two very different things.

So you think that the tank randomly firing at the civilian buildings and the civilians who might killed by such actions are just the casualties of war?
They are indeed casualties of war. What you describe may even be a war crime. But simply because a particular military action may be a war crime does not mean that it constitutes genocide. The casual way in which you interpret genocide means that virtually any war could be considered a genocidal action. This is simply not true.

Do you think that the artillery and missile fire on the civilian buildings was not intentional?
I was an officer in the military with combat experience. Without an impartial investigation, it is simply impossible for anyone to discern why a civilian building was fired upon. Let me give you an example...

Force A fires on Force B from inside a civilian building. Force B destroys the building. According to the rules of warfare, there is nothing illegal about the action of Force B. Once a civilian building is conscripted for military use (Force A), it is considered a valid and lawful target (Force B) under the rules of modern warfare.
 
Iranian president Amadinejad has said Israel should be wiped off the map. Saying something and actually doing it are two very different things.
They ACTUALLY started the war. And you can see it in the links I gave you. May be I'll even opeth a new thread Genocide of Ossetians prior to 2008.

They are indeed casualties of war. What you describe may even be a war crime. But simply because a particular military action may be a war crime does not mean that it constitutes genocide. The casual way in which you interpret genocide means that virtually any war could be considered a genocidal action. This is simply not true.
What can we say? This horror cannot be told in words. It must be seen. We 3 days were in the basement. Without water, light, food. Every day we were bombed. They throw grenades to the basement, shot people right on the streets, even children.
: — ." " — — , ,

My friends told me that after the town was free, they have found in the basement people of different age and sex shot in the head.
Äíåâíèê îñåòèíà: "Ãîðîä ìåðòâûõ ïòèö" | ÑÅÃÎÄÍß | Ìèð Êðèçèñ Ñâ³ò

When I was called I almost lost my mind when they said that my daughter is lying somewhere on the Zar's road. Russian peacekeepers told me not to go there right now. They've found BMP. They covered me while I tried to find the body. To know what is the body of my daughter Albina between 15 bodies that were there. There were two shelled taxi. 15 bodies were in the car and on the ground. Two child bodies. One of them was body of my 13 years old daughter. I could not bury her in the cemetery. It was under georgian artillery fire. The peacekeepers gave me the blanket. I covered the daughter and buried her in the garden under the apple tree.
«Made in USA! Жри!» — РуÑ�Ñ�кий репортер

There are hundreeds of such stories available on the Internet and if you and your media prefer to be deaf and blind it is your and your media problem.

I was an officer in the military with combat experience. Without an impartial investigation, it is simply impossible for anyone to discern why a civilian building was fired upon. Let me give you an example...

Force A fires on Force B from inside a civilian building. Force B destroys the building. According to the rules of warfare, there is nothing illegal about the action of Force B. Once a civilian building is conscripted for military use (Force A), it is considered a valid and lawful target (Force B) under the rules of modern warfare.

Georgia started it with heavy artillery and missile fire on the sleeping town.
And the attack was an indiscriminate attack on the town, as a town.
 
Ryan Grist, a former British Army captain who was the senior O.S.C.E. representative in Georgia when the war broke out. He was in the Ossetian capital when Georgia started it. Interview published August 17.

Translated version of http://cominf.org/2008/08/17/1166478024.html
I definitely know that the town was shelled from the heavy artillery stationed near the Georgian town Gori. I don’t know, I cannot say you now if it was shelled from the other places. I definitely know entire town was under fire from the places located south from S.Ossetia.
I also know that my colleagues who were here inside the town WERE FAR AWAY FROM ANY KIND OF MILITARY OBJECTS, but they were regularly shelled too. I don’t know, probably it was started from some kind of provocation. It was dark, no one could see something and I doubt someone will prove something. But it is not important.
Important is what I know – THE ENTIRE TOWN, FULL OF CIVILIANS, WAS UNDER ARTILLERY FIRE. It is absolutely intolerable that the peaceful town with civilians living here was shelled.
“War casualties” Tashah saying.
I guess this is just the face of the US\Israeli instructors who were teaching Georgians to fight in such ways.
And all I can say is what I feel a deep sorrow for the civilians when Tashah was as an officer.

From New York times
The New York Times > Log In
It was clear to me that the attack was completely indiscriminate and disproportionate to any, if indeed there had been any, provocation,” Mr. Grist said. “The attack was clearly, in my mind, an indiscriminate attack on the town, as a town
But look at the date when he was allowed to say this in the western media.
November 6, 2008, three months after the war was started.
Just the faces of the western democracy and “free” western media.
 
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You still don't seem to comprehend. Shelling a town is not tantamount to genicide. You are twisting the interpretation of genicide for propaganda purposes.

“War casualties” Tashah saying.
I guess this is just the face of the US\Israeli instructors who were teaching Georgians to fight in such ways. And all I can say is what I feel a deep sorrow for the civilians when Tashah was as an officer.
Some advice for you. If you ever do this again, I will initiate an MPH grievance against you. The last person who impugned my military service was banned by the Moderator Team. Consider yourself duly warned.
 
“War casualties” Tashah saying.
I guess this is just the face of the US\Israeli instructors who were teaching Georgians to fight in such ways.
And all I can say is what I feel a deep sorrow for the civilians when Tashah was as an officer.

Moderator's Warning:
Allow me to be clear. Disparaging/degrading/attacking a member's military service, or even the slightest bit of negative insinuation towards that member's military service will be met with swift and severe consequences. You are now on notice. This happens again, it will be your last post at DP.
 
Tashah said:
As has been pointed out to you in another thread, no genocide took place in Ossetia.

It is true, you, Infinite Chaos, Lerxst and everyone else in another thread told Viking that you didn’t see any proof of anything, thus there was no need to post any proofs anymore, - you wouldn’t not see, as it was proven.

On my side I would like to see some minimal intelligence behind such an argument, but I cannot and I will not. The only nice thing about it is that it always works; - no contra arguments can be raised.

It is like your favorite weapon, - logical fallacies piled and reinforced by blind denial.


Tashah said:
You are twisting the interpretation of genocide for propaganda purposes.

I disqualify Captain Courtesy. He has chosen a wrong profession. He has no aptitude for it. He is destined for misery in real life and only can vent himself in the virtual reality.

‘’for propaganda purposes’’ - that’s why Tashah mindlessly attacks any poster from Russia or anybody who has to say something good about Russia. Viking is a KGB agent seeding propaganda in such an important for the KGB place as DP; - and Tashah has the duty to fight. It is exactly a phobia. No degree needed for the diagnosis. It is clear, pathetic and sad phobia. Captain Courtesy fails miserably.


Tashah said:
You still don't seem to comprehend. Shelling a town is not tantamount to genocide.



Shelling a town is not tantamount to genocide? Because you say so? What an ego!

You are twisting the interpretation of genocide for propaganda purposes.

When did Viking or documents ever impose that shelling a town was tantamount to genocide?

It is another strawman of yours.

Shelling a town may be tantamount to genocide and it may not. It is as simple as that.



Viking said:
I guess this is just the face of the US\Israeli instructors who were teaching Georgians to fight in such ways.

And all I can say is what I feel a deep sorrow for the civilians when Tashah was as an officer.


There may be some misunderstanding. Officer is not офицер ( ofiser), it is rather a service person. A highway patrol policeman with no rank can be called an officer. Tashah did not claim to be a commander, офицер, but I agree one should be grateful she is not in a command. I wouldn’t like not only to be a civilian, but I wouldn’t like even to be in the same unit with her, - as she has demonstrated that she is so easy to deny a fellow burned officer more than three times before the **** crows, - just because of the uncontrollable phobia. I don’t know if they look for such things in Israeli military.

I believe she is a brave girl, and I believe that she has fought for Israel in whatever quality in a real action, but of course, it does mean one should ever think that therefore she is correct or reasonable. It is not the matter of her creditability, - I have no doubt that she wouldn’t lie about things she sees, - it is but rather the matter of the level and quality of her comprehension and perception of the things she sees, as well as of uncontrollable emotions.

One can see what happens when she feels like she is in a command on DP. You can see what kind of individuals run DP, but this is quite an American problem, we have the same bias and propaganda and disregard to logic everywhere, - in media, newspapers, schools and colleges, - where reasonable people are in minority or in the silenced majority. The sad thing is that in my view other forums are even worse, even you think that nothing can be worse than your experience here. Or may be I just got used to the stink here?

Another thing is that Tashah and CC are those who pee their pants when they see Barack Hussein Obama. If you looked at our TV you would see that Barack is always portrayed like a statue of a Messiah. The Messiah has announced that it does not matter what is the truth, it does not matter who started and who did what to whom, Russia has to be held to response. It is quite troubling for me to see that when Russia is making steps to pull itself from the hole my country pushes itself into a hole. It is very sad for me. Tashah and Captain Courtesy are not only your problem, they are a problem of this country, - shameless, brainwashed, selfamored, disregarding any decency and logic.


I would advice you to apologize to Tashah and Captain Courtesy and keep on coming back and posting. You may see how it can be entertaining to pull strings and see them jumping and spewing.



The documents and witness mass up, and they do include Western observers and investigators. Tashah and everyone else keep on denying obvious facts. In fact they think that they are representatives of the opinion of all members of DP Whether they are or there some exclusions, - in all of all facts do not change if everyone denies them.

As the matter of the fact the state of Georgia did attempt genocide of Ossetins and Russians. As the matter fact there is no facts proving that the US – the less Israel – did have any awareness of such an intention of Georgia. As the matter of the fact, under a post factum consideration of the facts Israeli gov-nt withdraw from help to Georgia and recommended to do the same to private firms.


As the matter of the fact Georgian military was a sample of NATO military, all trained and equipped in the same way as a number of present and proposed NATO members. As the matter of the fact it was desirable to see the NATO military in a real action, thus intentions of Georgia (less genocide) to use military means could be encouraged by NATO. As the matter of fact it was desirable to see Russia and Russian military in an action. As the matter of fact Georgia violated all NATO rules and attempted genocide. Whatever were reasons – and one of them could be the attempt of genocide instead of NATO tactics, - the NATO military failed miserably. It was stopped and given a fierce resistance by militia and very few Russian peace keepers. Russian army #58 was supposed to be all drunk and equipped with outdated arms and be dependant on the Kremlin whose leaders were away. But it gathered a number of brigades and went on the move on falling apart tanks and vehicles with hardly sober commanders and it (not the Russian might, but the might #58) crushed the sample NATO military as an elephant would crush an egg. (It was supposed to be stopped at bottlenecks – Georgia had enough power in military calculations.)

How many ## does Russian military might consists of? What it will be in 2, 3, 4, 5 years if Russia keeps on going on the same path of pulling itself from the hole?

If one does not want to understand the facts and the implications of the facts one has to be diagnosed as a member of DP led by Tashah and Captain Courtesy. But there always is one justone who can laugh even when he is sad.



Still Tashah is so attractive, especially in a military uniform… Once she posted pics of IDF chicks, they were so hot… I bet there were numerous violations of the code and so much was bought in online stores… Do they have Victoria Secrets in Israel? Infinite Chaos should tell me what should be the color of the underwear …

Tashah can do with me whatever she wants, but there is the only one thing I beg her - is it Victoria Secrets?
 
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It is true, you, Infinite Chaos, Lerxst and everyone else in another thread told Viking that you didn’t see any proof of anything, thus there was no need to post any proofs anymore, - you wouldn’t not see, as it was proven.

Did you or Viking post ANY proof of genocide? Did any of the international agencies like Amnesty / the UN / International Red Cross / Medecins Sans Frontiers say there was a genocide?

Saying it was a Genocide and then acting petulant when asked for proof is not the way to convince anyone.

-- Still Tashah is so attractive, especially in a military uniform… Once she posted pics of IDF chicks, they were so hot… I bet there were numerous violations of the code and so much was bought in online stores… Do they have Victoria Secrets in Israel? Infinite Chaos should tell me what should be the color of the underwear …

Tashah can do with me whatever she wants, but there is the only one thing I beg her - is it Victoria Secrets?

:confused:

What was all THAT about? Are you on / off medication?
 
The deliberate targeting and killing of civilians is not the same as genocide; it is its own beast.

The Georgian military didn't commit genocide against the South Ossetians; they intentionally targeted and killed South Ossetian civilians in order to provoke Russia into retaliating.
 
who was brave enough to start genocide of ossetians,

You say Saakashvili was brave enough to start a Genocide? Perhaps i slept through this or the world doesnt realize it happened. If there was genocide in Georgia, we'd know about it. If Russia started a Genocide on Ukraine we'd know about it....no country can systematically exterminate civilians of a country and drive to exterminate them and keep it a secret. :shock:
 
The deliberate targeting and killing of civilians is not the same as genocide; it is its own beast.

The Georgian military didn't commit genocide against the South Ossetians; they intentionally targeted and killed South Ossetian civilians in order to provoke Russia into retaliating.

If you ask people about the conflict most will indicate their fear of Russia and sympathy for Georgia. The fact that many are so uninformed of the conflict leads Viking and Justone to the use of severe words such as genocide. If they started the topic saying there were casualties and possible war crimes committed in Ossetia the topic would get no attention and be dead. Sometimes it is necessary to use rhetoric to stir people from their cozy self-validating western media world. I'm not sure why they attack two moderators with personal insults though, that only highlights their ignorance or makes their farewell from these forums overly dramatic.
 
-- Sometimes it is necessary to use rhetoric to stir people from their cozy self-validating western media world.--

As a citizen of the cozy self validating Western World, I prefer discussion where correct terminology is used. I can make adjustments where someone is posting in their second language but I think the term "genocide" was misused in another thread started by these two and they have chosen to misuse it again in this one also.
 
As a citizen of the cozy self validating Western World, I prefer discussion where correct terminology is used. I can make adjustments where someone is posting in their second language but I think the term "genocide" was misused in another thread started by these two and they have chosen to misuse it again in this one also.

So you would rather debate the use of a word than talk about the issue. I think I know why they're so frustrated with you guys.
 
If you were posting on a different language forum and used a word that was plainly wrong - and then you were told it was the wrong word repeatedly but ignored that - that's one thing however my feeling is that Viking and Justone deliberately continued to use that word for other reasons. If you wish to apologise for them and argue that my problem is simply the word that's your issue.

Anyhow - look at Justone's last post and translate that into plain English if you wish to carry the baton for them.
 
If you were posting on a different language forum and used a word that was plainly wrong - and then you were told it was the wrong word repeatedly but ignored that - that's one thing however my feeling is that Viking and Justone deliberately continued to use that word for other reasons. If you wish to apologise for them and argue that my problem is simply the word that's your issue.

Anyhow - look at Justone's last post and translate that into plain English if you wish to carry the baton for them.

I'm just pointing out that your focus on the word has distracted you entirely from the issue.
 
Read the thread again - but first rad the other thread started by Viking. You will see where the agenda really lays.

:lol:
 
This should be our last video from mother Russia as Rutin, Shutin, Putin has pushed for a law declaring all dissention to be an act of treason and all convicted be declared traitors. Welcome back Meestar Staleen

Signed,
"There's a Bad Moon On THe Rise":censored
 
genocide - The Free Online Dictionary

Nothing even remotely similar to genocide happened in Ossetia.

You are correct, Tashah. While there were abuses, even crimes against humanity, in South Ossetia, those abuses did not rise to the level of genocide.

For those who are unfamiliar with the term genocide, especially as it has been loosely-used in recent years, i.e., with respect to the war in Iraq, Arab-Israeli dispute, etc., the definition is as follows:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.


Source of defintion: Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

In short, for crimes against humanity to rise to the level of genocide, there needs to be a combination of the intent to destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group and the acts to achieve that end.
 
Did you or Viking post ANY proof of genocide? Saying it was a Genocide and then acting petulant when asked for proof is not the way to convince anyone.

I already answered this point a number of times:
I just said:
''It is true, you, Infinite Chaos, Lerxst and everyone else in another thread told Viking that you didn’t see any proof of anything, thus there was no need to post any proofs anymore, - you wouldn’t not see them, as it was proven.''

Did any of the international agencies like Amnesty / the UN / International Red Cross / Medecins Sans Frontiers say there was a genocide?


I never checked. Neither Viking, nor Russia, nor I need to wait for Amnesty/the UN or Spies Without Borders tell us what to think looking at the facts. As the matter of the fact the Human Right watch says that Russia committed genocide/war crimes because it used cluster bombs. Only this fact proves that your appeal irrelevant for any thinking person if you could think or look at the facts.



Are you on / off medication?


This is nice, very nice; it is no surprise that Captain Courtesy and Tashah thanked you for this. One cannot smell his own stink, can one?

What was all THAT about?


THAT was about me trying to pay some compliments to IDF in order not to be suspected in violation of the rule of DP (see the rules) ‘’even the slightest bit of negative insinuation towards that member's military service [in Israeli Defense Force] will be met with swift and severe consequences.’’ It did not work, - I was banned for all my post from the first letter to the last one. Thus you should have quoted all of it in order to add your courteous comment, Captain of Courteous Comments.
 
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