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Former cop pulled over...cops regret it

Luce said:
Well, I can pretty much promise that the guy who opens his window 1" and keeps hollering "AM I BEING DETAINED?" is going to have a bad time. Street monsters don't get a lot of entertainment, and that's just volunteering.

If an officer or detective asks you a question or makes a request whose compliance will not implicate you, you're probably best just to go along with it. The difference between "standing up for your rights" and "obstruction" is very, very small and can take months or even years to sort out.

If an officer or detective reads you your rights OR asks you a question that implicates you, perform the following checklist.

1. Shut up.
2. Shut up.
3. Forget how to say anything, in any language, other than "I want a lawyer."
4. SHUT UP. DO NOT TRY TO BE HELPFUL. THIS MAN IS NOT ON YOUR SIDE. WHY IS YOUR MOUTH OPEN?

and also

5. Shut up.
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One of the most frequent complaints from lawyers is clients who won't shut up. And that's after they got an attorney.
 
Luce said:
If an officer or detective asks you a question or makes a request whose compliance will not implicate you, you're probably best just to go along with it. The difference between "standing up for your rights" and "obstruction" is very, very small and can take months or even years to sort out.
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Well, Obstruction is usually physical in nature. You physically get in the way of an officer and his car, for example.
Simply refusing to answer a cop's questions, can never be Obstruction. It's a 5th Amendment right.

Luce said:
If an officer or detective reads you your rights OR asks you a question that implicates you, perform the following checklist.
Click to expand...

You really don't know what questions can or possibly could, implicate you. Hell, an officer may be trying to see if you'll slur your words in some way to charge you with public intoxication... There, it wouldn't even matter what you say, but the manner in which you say it.

But, besides that, there are a bunch of other problems with speaking with police, even if you think that the questions they ask are not going to implicate you.

Here is a good video on the subject:



Luce said:
1. Shut up.
2. Shut up.
3. Forget how to say anything, in any language, other than "I want a lawyer."
4. SHUT UP. DO NOT TRY TO BE HELPFUL. THIS MAN IS NOT ON YOUR SIDE. WHY IS YOUR MOUTH OPEN?

and also

5. Shut up.
Click to expand...

Simply shutting up, unfortunately, is not enough to express your rights. They will continue to question you. Saying that you want a lawyer is good, but I've seen that be not enough, as well (depending on your dialect).

I would say something like, "I invoke and refuse to waive my 4th, 5th and 6th Amendment rights. Please do not question me further or request consent to search me"
 
Drowning Man said:
Well, Obstruction is usually physical in nature. You physically get in the way of an officer and his car, for example.
Simply refusing to answer a cop's questions, can never be Obstruction. It's a 5th Amendment right.



You really don't know what questions can or possibly could, implicate you. Hell, an officer may be trying to see if you'll slur your words in some way to charge you with public intoxication... There, it wouldn't even matter what you say, but the manner in which you say it.

But, besides that, there are a bunch of other problems with speaking with police, even if you think that the questions they ask are not going to implicate you.

Here is a good video on the subject:





Simply shutting up, unfortunately, is not enough to express your rights. They will continue to question you. Saying that you want a lawyer is good, but I've seen that be not enough, as well (depending on your dialect).

I would say something like, "I invoke and refuse to waive my 4th, 5th and 6th Amendment rights. Please do not question me further or request consent to search me"
Click to expand...

1. No. Obstruction can be as simple as lying to a cop. All it requires is that you in some way prevent him from doing his work.

2. If you believe that, I can't help you.

3. You're the guy with his window 1" down. Let us know how that works out.
 
Luce said:
1. No. Obstruction can be as simple as lying to a cop. All it requires is that you in some way prevent him from doing his work.
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Depends on the state. Again, usually it's physical. You're right, though, I've seen it where Obstruction can sometimes be charged if you give a false name, for example.

Luce said:
2. If you believe that, I can't help you.
Click to expand...

Right back at you...

Luce said:
3. You're the guy with his window 1" down. Let us know how that works out.
Click to expand...

Will do. You're the guy who gives the cops all that they want. Let us know how that works out.
 
Drowning Man said:
Well, Obstruction is usually physical in nature. You physically get in the way of an officer and his car, for example.
Simply refusing to answer a cop's questions, can never be Obstruction. It's a 5th Amendment right.



You really don't know what questions can or possibly could, implicate you. Hell, an officer may be trying to see if you'll slur your words in some way to charge you with public intoxication... There, it wouldn't even matter what you say, but the manner in which you say it.

But, besides that, there are a bunch of other problems with speaking with police, even if you think that the questions they ask are not going to implicate you.

Here is a good video on the subject:





Simply shutting up, unfortunately, is not enough to express your rights. They will continue to question you. Saying that you want a lawyer is good, but I've seen that be not enough, as well (depending on your dialect).

I would say something like, "I invoke and refuse to waive my 4th, 5th and 6th Amendment rights. Please do not question me further or request consent to search me"
Click to expand...

I realllllllllllly hope people aren't following your advice. Slur your words? If you haven't been drinking you have nothing to worry about. Yes, we all agree you have the right to remain silent, but that doesn't mean that's the answer 100% of the time. Could this driver have had a much smoother interaction if he simply explained why he was following this person around all day? I say yes. And can you please drop the crap about you wanting to think cops are good. It is crystal clear that you think they're all bad.
 
Non-Russian_bot said:
I realllllllllllly hope people aren't following your advice. Slur your words? If you haven't been drinking you have nothing to worry about. Yes, we all agree you have the right to remain silent, but that doesn't mean that's the answer 100% of the time. Could this driver have had a much smoother interaction if he simply explained why he was following this person around all day? I say yes. And can you please drop the crap about you wanting to think cops are good. It is crystal clear that you think they're all bad.
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And anything you say can and will be used against you... Nothing in there says that what you say can be used for you.

And I don't think all cops are bad...I think they're all doing a job who's primary function is finding evidence to incriminate. Why would I help cops to who are trying to incriminate me for something?
 
Drowning Man said:
And anything you say can and will be used against you... Nothing in there says that what you say can be used for you.

And I don't think all cops are bad...I think they're all doing a job who's primary function is finding evidence to incriminate. Why would I help cops to who are trying to incriminate me for something?
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No, their primary job is not to find evidence to incriminate. But that tells me joy about all I need to know about what you think of police.
Riddle me this: this guy, who claims to be a former cop but that’s probably bullshit, did nothing wrong, right? He was following this girl around and had a justifiable reason to do so. What could he say that would be used against him?
 
Non-Russian_bot said:
Riddle me this: this guy, who claims to be a former cop but that’s probably bullshit, did nothing wrong, right? He was following this girl around and had a justifiable reason to do so. What could he say that would be used against him?
Click to expand...

You really should watch that video I posted earlier. It does a very good job of explaining some of the major pitfalls of talking to the police. It is a law professor speaking and he gives time to a police detective to speak on not only what he said, but his own observations as well.

I'll post it again for you:

 
Drowning Man said:
You really should watch that video I posted earlier. It does a very good job of explaining some of the major pitfalls of talking to the police. It is a law professor speaking and he gives time to a police detective to speak on not only what he said, but his own observations as well.

I'll post it again for you:

Click to expand...

I’ve seen it before. I remember my wife seeing it in law school. If you were a witness to or victim of a crime would you talk to police then?
 
Non-Russian_bot said:
I’ve seen it before. I remember my wife seeing it in law school. If you were a witness to or victim of a crime would you talk to police then?
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Not sure. Would depend on the situation. I would certainly be guarded in what I say and try to say as little as possible if I did speak, though.
 
Drowning Man said:
Not sure. Would depend on the situation. I would certainly be guarded in what I say and try to say as little as possible if I did speak, though.
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Man that’s really sad. I’m sorry you’ve become so jaded in terms of the police.
 
Non-Russian_bot said:
Man that’s really sad. I’m sorry you’ve become so jaded in terms of the police.
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You call it jaded. I call it realistic. (and by my view, you're the one that's jaded)
 
Non-Russian_bot said:
If to you realistic is taking outlier scenarios and applying them to hundreds of thousands of others then sure.
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I have eaten raw turkey countless times without getting sick, so I'll be find this time, too!
 
Drowning Man said:
So, I did show that sustained complaints jumped when police started wearing body cameras.
We have seen problems with perspective and cops doing things to work around their cameras so that their actions cannot be verified.
We have the fact that police complaints are generally reviewed by the police themselves.
And we have a society who takes the word of the police over the word of everyday citizens.

/shrug

I don't believe the problems have spread like wildfire. I think there is finally a measure of accountability to the problems that have always existed.
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Comparitivley, the problems are few and far between...
 
Drowning Man said:
You call it jaded. I call it realistic. (and by my view, you're the one that's jaded)
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So, question for ya': If you and the wife come home after "date night" and find your house ransacked, your wall safe gone and the babysitter and your daughter gone, who are you going to call?
 
Non-Russian_bot said:
So in your analogy are the police the raw turkey?
Click to expand...

The police are an unknown force that can do an extreme amount of damage to your life, either intentionally, or unintentionally.
 
Big Steve said:
Comparitivley, the problems are few and far between...
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Comparatively, walking across the street without looking both ways, you probably will be just fine.
 
Big Steve said:
So, question for ya': If you and the wife come home after "date night" and find your house ransacked, your wall safe gone and the babysitter and your daughter gone, who are you going to call?
Click to expand...

Probably the police. Of course, that doesn't mean that I won't be guarded in what I say. Who are the prime suspects in such a case?
 
Drowning Man said:
The police are an unknown force that can do an extreme amount of damage to your life, either intentionally, or unintentionally.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry for whatever happened to you. Hopefully one day you can get past that and not view all police based on whatever bad experience you had. We, as a society, tend to frown upon that sort of profiling and painting with such a broad brush.
 
Drowning Man said:
Probably the police. Of course, that doesn't mean that I won't be guarded in what I say. Who are the prime suspects in such a case?
Click to expand...

It doesn't really matter who the prime suspects are.

I just find it interesting that the people for whom you clearly hold a deep mistrust about are the first people you would call...
 
Non-Russian_bot said:
I'm sorry for whatever happened to you. Hopefully one day you can get past that and not view all police based on whatever bad experience you had. We, as a society, tend to frown upon that sort of profiling and painting with such a broad brush.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and drive without a seatbelt. So much of the time it isn't a problem, right?
 
Big Steve said:
It doesn't really matter who the prime suspects are.
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Sure the hell does for me if I'm the one being questioned...

Big Steve said:
I just find it interesting that the people for whom you clearly hold a deep mistrust about are the first people you would call...
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Who else would you suggest?

Do you trust every driver on the road knowing that there are drunks and stupid people out there?
But you drive anyway?
But you don't trust everyone?
But you drive anyway?

Where is the contradiction? There isn't one.
You can distrust and guard yourself against something, but still see the necessity of using it, anyway.
 
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