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Foreign Criticism of the US


I find it a little funny that you start a thread about foreign criticism of the US by listing a bunch of criticisms about foreign countries.

Secondly, pretty much the majority of those criticisms you list are ancient or last century history.

I enjoy discussing American politics - it's quite entertaining, particularly when the pompous get on their particular horses. But when I'm critical of American policy it's for one of two reasons - one, the policy affects me here in Canada or impacts world finances/economies - two, to correct people on subjects like UHC since I live in a country that has UHC and Americans are badly misinformed about what it is and what it isn't.

I also love teasing liberals and Democrats about their failed President - while going through university, my friends and I used to identify people who were "book smart, life dumb" - people who could quote from a science text but couldn't figure out how to open a door - President Obama has to be about the most "book smart, life dumb" Presidents ever to hold the office. And what's even better is watching so many liberals and Democrats finally coming around to realize what most of us have known for the better part of a decade. Far too late, but people have to learn on their own in order to accept it.

Finally, I get lots of jabs at Canada and the fact I'm Canadian - doesn't really bother me too much at all - I just try to correct the misinformation and general ignorance of many Americans when it comes to their neighbor to the north.
 

Like, with the caveat that your first and second points are exactly what I was addressing: generalized criticism of something that has two sides of the coin.
 
Well, I might not have bothered posting a comment, but you claim to be interested in why America is criticized by foreigners, but you likely have no clue why this is the case. I actually hadn't thought of it much myself, until I started talking in depth 15 years ago, with a neighbour who was from Guatemala. I mentioned that I was still a dual citizen, although I hadn't lived in the U.S. since my early 20's, he could tell me the story from first hand account of how he and his family were forced to flee into the jungle, and then across the border into Mexico, where most of his family still lives, one night to escape a death squad that had come to kill and burn their village during a campaign of terror in the 80's that was called counter-insurgency by the Guatemalan government....if that term doesn't ring a bell!

I had heard the outline of the story of Guatemalan death squads being police and soldiers trained by the CIA to carry out a terror campaign because the rebels demanding land reform had been careful to develop good relations with Mayan villagers. So, the locals weren't helpful to the governing authorities. The Government, and the official story handed to the media by Reagan Administration officials was that the guerillas were communists, and America was supporting the Government because they were fighting communism. While most Guatemalans were like my friend, who understood that the Government worked for the interests of a few wealthy families that owned most of the land in the country. What they called "communism" was any violent movement to force land reform so that the people who actually lived on the land would be recognized as its true owners.

That story may be just one example. But how many others are there out there...living in Latin America, or Asia or Africa, with similar stories to tell...of how U.S. officials and American corporations prop up local despots who allow their nations' wealth to be plundered for the benefit of a small ruling class and foreign companies?

As for me...I've lived on both sides of the Canada/U.S. border, and there are not many differences of any great importance between living in Canada or the U.S.. And, especially as Canada has a number of mining companies that are acting as bad or worse than U.S. companies abroad, it may be just as dangerous in a lot of places to put where a Canadian flag pin as an American one.
 
SBu said:
That sounds like paranoia based on the largely irrelevant conversations of a few history dorks.
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no, that's what it really is.

A great deal of your political discourse, and as a consequence, your social discourse about political programs and such issues, is hitler-centric. And I wish I were joking or have a severe case of paranoia but I don't think it is.
 
SBu said:
Like, with the caveat that your first and second points are exactly what I was addressing: generalized criticism of something that has two sides of the coin.
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I agree - part of having a good debate is having two sides to discuss.
 

Thanks for your post. My intent was to invite us all to recognize that there are two sides to every coin, not to claim that any country is infallible or perfectly guilty. Certainly that no foreigner of any country is adequately equipped to pass generalized judgement. I wish we had more moral authority to argue in the positive. Sadly, I think after Bush and Obama we can hardly make a strong argument.
 

I think "hitler" is more or less used as other symbols in the past, a tactic to scare your kids to bed. Go to bed or Hitler will get you, easily becomes, Don't support this or that or else Hitler will get you.
 

When it comes to foreign policy issues, there is a lot of continuity between Bush and Obama. What I noticed when talking to some who had come from wartorn regions or brutal dictatorships, was that they made no distinction between U.S. businesses in their nations and U.S. government policy. Now, with some of the bad things that Canadian companies are doing in undeveloped nations, I'm wondering if our reputation is tarnished by how Canadian-based companies act abroad.
 
SBu said:
I think "hitler" is more or less used as other symbols in the past, a tactic to scare your kids to bed. Go to bed or Hitler will get you, easily becomes, Don't support this or that or else Hitler will get you.
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It doesn't matter what it is or it isn't. or what you think it is or it isn't. What matters is how and when it is used.

The political vocabulary has an abudance of Hitler in it and not much use for many other words. And that I think is rather stupid and it's serving to polarize the political discourse and create a lot of radicalism and partisanship. Which is working.

So that's why this entire thread is a sham. It's a joke. A mere attempt to deflect the legitimate and less legitimate criticism the US faces by distracting attention and saying: "look over there!"
 

I wouldn't worry too much. China puts us both to shame with respect to that.
 
SBu said:
I wouldn't worry too much. China puts us both to shame with respect to that.
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Maybe! What are the Russians up to lately?
 

Not true. It is saying "don't just look here, look over there as well." Look at both.

Anyway, with respect to Hitler, someone on here told me once that all threads eventually lead back to Hitler. Funny that it has come full circle once again with you bringing up Hitler in conversation.
 

Of course, if someone wants to criticism the States or US Policy, it is better he/she do it here than at home.

First of all she/he is communicating with people here that know how Americans think, why they act as they do and Where the criticism is good or wrong. If, as I encounter in German Fora, a continuous flow of mostly uninformed and bitter moralizing is poured out against the US, there is nobody to correct it and put the argument right. This supports the impression that the hate is well placed and increases it feeding on the opinion of the multitude.

This brings me to the second point. There is no helping it. Each of the complaints, no matter how far out or down right stupid or uninformed has to be answered individually. How else to correct wrong impressions? And make no mistake, it is necessary to correct the wrong impressions, because they lead to attitudes that cause other countries to make policy decisions that have cost us dearly.

the last point I would like to mention is that it is only natural for people the world over to criticize the US and its politics. After all The country projects its policy of free movement, free trade and security into the far corners. Most people the world over are affected by decisions in DC. Often die US influences the quality of life of far the removed more fundamentally than the local governments ever could. Also they do not want to have to pay for the Security blanket the US throws out but require to live their lives. People need the US and they resent this.
 
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SmokeAndMirrors said:
-- I think that is definitely a uniquely American thing. I certainly didn't see it in the UK, although perhaps they were more like that in the past --
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It's definitely still here. We do still knock ourselves and our heroes quicker than we build them up.

I admire a lot of things about America and Americans - pride in your national flag, clearly statemented rights and freedoms, big heartedness in many affairs and undying national pride but yes, (as Serenity pointed out) you can also be incredibly horrible about your own politicians - especially on the "other side" of your own political stance.

You take up major news because you are the dominant nation economically and politically so when you fart, it reverberates around the world. It isn't fair that when you also do good it does not have the same weight but life was never about fairness and bad news is always more attractive to readers than good news so your bad news stories will always have more weight than your good news stories.
 

You really think the thread is a sham? That I don't quite understand. Why? In what respect?

And the other, the Hitler thing. I have always thought that complex a very interesting one. I mean, here you had one of the most educated and informed populations of the time and with an old and consistent culture vote for a man who had liberally proclaimed all the evil imaginable in speeches, his book and in his party's media and allowed him to rule. That is a very disconcerting thing to have happen and holds lessons, one would think, that bear discussion for, well, ever.
 

Granted, what you said in your last statement is true, but that still doesn't mean that everything one politician does that the other party doesn't agree with, that he's Hitler. Hitler hitler hitler hitler. Use your words. Express logically your discontent, don't appeal to some holywood-infused sentiment and drama. And I say holywood-infused because a lot of americans only know a simplistic view of WW2 and holywood movies capitalize on it. Ah, the french sucked, the nazis were evil and we went in there and kicked their asses. U-S-A! U-S-A!

You want to talk Hitler? do it in the history subforum, don't infest every single bloody thread about Europe with it or don't infest the american political discourse with it (this is more of a RL issue that can't be solved here, here, on this forum, just the "keep into the history subforum part" unless it is absolutely relevant... which most of the times it isn't.)

And I told you why this thread is a sham in a previous comment. It's only purpose is to deviate attention. Beat a dead horse as it were.
 

I didn't bring hitler into the conversation buddy boy, you did, in your OP.


So it wasn't me, it was you, and you did the amazing feat of internet discourse of going full circle in the first comment. Attaboy.
 
Rainman05 said:
And I told you why this thread is a sham in a previous comment. It's only purpose is to deviate attention. Beat a dead horse as it were.
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Hitler is dead alright.

 
SBu said:
Nor would we attempt to use that as argument collateral to hold them accountable in any rational way for the situation there or anywhere now.

Eh, Boston isn't so bad.
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Boston is fine. I already lived there for more than 20 years. Just like Northwestern woods better.
 
Rainman05 said:
I didn't bring hitler into the conversation buddy boy, you did, in your OP.



So it wasn't me, it was you, and you did the amazing feat of internet discourse of going full circle in the first comment. Attaboy.
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Ha! Among many other examples. Really? Out of the OP you only latched on to one word? Hitler was not my focus, it has become your only argument. I guess you're proud of yourself for putting Hitler center stage.
 
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