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Foreign Criticism of the US

SBu

SBu

DP Veteran
Joined
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So here's my beef. A citizen of another country joins the website, gets a couple posts under their belt, and then opens up a thread criticizing the US using arguments that span a century or two in the making. Usually these are poorly written rambling arguments born mostly of emotion and boredom.

Here's a thought: Look at your own country; it's history of bad/controversial deeds, it's mistakes, and the shortcomings of your own populace.

Is your country's politics and position really so boring that you feel the need to be more involved in what we are doing and what is happening here? Get a freaking life.

Here's a couple examples of bad things other countries have done and never get discussed here because we don't care.

China - Tibet
Germany - Hitler
Japan- Nanjing
Australia- indigenous population
Russia- communist empire
France- Napoleon
Netherlands- Congo and other African nations
Britain- actual Empire
Saudi Arabia- financing terrorist organizations
Thailand- drowning islamic immigrants
etc. etc. etc.

Pretty much, name your country and I can ramble on about how it sucks. I'll probably have to do some research because I don't know jack about your country, but what the hell.
 
SBu said:
So here's my beef. A citizen of another country joins the website, gets a couple posts under their belt, and then opens up a thread criticizing the US using arguments that span a century or two in the making. Usually these are poorly written rambling arguments born mostly of emotion and boredom.

Here's a thought: Look at your own country; it's history of bad/controversial deeds, it's mistakes, and the shortcomings of your own populace.

Is your country's politics and position really so boring that you feel the need to be more involved in what we are doing and what is happening here? Get a freaking life.

Here's a couple examples of bad things other countries have done and never get discussed here because we don't care.

China - Tibet
Germany - Hitler
Japan- Nanjing
Australia- indigenous population
Russia- communist empire
France- Napoleon
Netherlands- Congo and other African nations
Britain- actual Empire
Saudi Arabia- financing terrorist organizations
Thailand- drowning islamic immigrants
etc. etc. etc.

Pretty much, name your country and I can ramble on about how it sucks. I'll probably have to do some research because I don't know jack about your country, but what the hell.
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Iceland
 
SBu said:
So here's my beef. A citizen of another country joins the website, gets a couple posts under their belt, and then opens up a thread criticizing the US using arguments that span a century or two in the making. Usually these are poorly written rambling arguments born mostly of emotion and boredom.
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Eh, i'm a citizen of another Country who thinks there is much to love about your Country (althought i disagree with some of the Governments Foreign Policies), i do very much like and enjoy interacting with most of the posters here, American and Non American.

It never ceases to amaze me when i see people get their panties in a bunch when someone is critical of anothers Country. Open up your eyes and look around the forum. If i was an American i'd be more concerned about what Americans say about your own President and your Previous President than what a minority of posters on the Forum from other Countries might think. Your own posters are far more offensive and disrespectful towards your current and previous Presidents in my opinion.
 
SBu said:
So here's my beef. A citizen of another country joins the website, gets a couple posts under their belt, and then opens up a thread criticizing the US using arguments that span a century or two in the making. Usually these are poorly written rambling arguments born mostly of emotion and boredom.

Here's a thought: Look at your own country; it's history of bad/controversial deeds, it's mistakes, and the shortcomings of your own populace.

Is your country's politics and position really so boring that you feel the need to be more involved in what we are doing and what is happening here? Get a freaking life.

Here's a couple examples of bad things other countries have done and never get discussed here because we don't care.

China - Tibet
Germany - Hitler
Japan- Nanjing
Australia- indigenous population
Russia- communist empire
France- Napoleon
Netherlands- Congo and other African nations
Britain- actual Empire
Saudi Arabia- financing terrorist organizations
Thailand- drowning islamic immigrants
etc. etc. etc.

Pretty much, name your country and I can ramble on about how it sucks. I'll probably have to do some research because I don't know jack about your country, but what the hell.
Click to expand...

USA - NSA spying
 
Serenity said:
Eh, i'm a citizen of another Country who thinks there is much to love about your Country (althought i disagree with some of the Governments Foreign Policies), i do very much like and enjoy interacting with most of the posters here, American and Non American.

It never ceases to amaze me when i see people get their panties in a bunch when someone is critical of anothers Country. Open up your eyes and look around the forum. If i was an American i'd be more concerned about what Americans say about your own President and your Previous President than what a minority of posters on the Forum from other Countries might think. Your own posters are far more offensive and disrespectful towards your current and previous Presidents in my opinion.
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To be sure. And please don't misunderstand my post. I have lived abroad and love other cultures and languages and interacting with people from other countries. I cannot, however, accept outright unfair criticism about things that have happened decades or more ago, with no intellectual honesty recognizing good things that we have done.

This thread is simply intended to highlight that it is dishonest to criticize another country for all it's faults while denying its due positive contributions. Every country has its weak points and its strong points. Perhaps America is uniquely situated at this time to receive criticism, but lets not forget it is easy to criticize something in the headlights.
 
Grand Mal said:
(grin!)
Actually, I'm Canadian but I didn't want to hear about treatment of Natives (at least we still have some!) and dirty oil and hockey riots and stuff.
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We still have some too. Just won $100 at the casino last night ;)
 
SBu said:
Netherlands- Congo and other African nations .
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What King Leopold did in Congo was horrendous. But it had nothing to do with the Netherlands. It was a Belgian colony(the Dutch have their own sins, to be sure, but nothing on such scale).


Anyway, I think we should keep it cool. People feel good about bashing America because, however hypocritical or erroneous such attacks may be, it is not like they are picking on somebody weak and helpless. We are still the largely uncontested superpower, and are gong to remain such for all foreseeable future. It's like the old fable about a mutt that derives his self-esteem from barking at an elephant.

slon.jpg
 
Oh, trust me, it's not just historical stuff. Most of these countries have serious issues going on right now, and always have, and probably always will. Every country does. Been there, done that.

I would say that on certain metrics, America's issues are more severe than most developed countries. I would say that for some people, the problems in America may mean it is definitely not the right country for them. Everyone has different tolerances for different kinds of issues.

Certainly, I am not shy about criticizing my own country. At all. I don't really know if it's the best country for me, in terms of my tolerance for some of its issues, in fact.

But what I noticed while I was abroad is that, among other developed nations, the cultures that like to criticize the US the most are the cultures that have the biggest issues themselves. For them, it's a way of trying to make themselves feel better about their own society by painting a cartoon-esque caricature of America.

This translates to individuals as well. The most flagrant anti-American individuals I ever met were usually drunkards who were missing a bunch of teeth and couldn't construct a grammatical sentence. I recall being at a pub one evening when some random English dude heard my accent, spun around, and interjected, "You carn't calls that no proper Engish." I was laughing too hard to even respond.

America is a very easy target, since we take up so much space in the media. When Sweden does something stupid, it's a blip on the BBC for a day or two, and then it's gone. But when America does something stupid, it's in every major paper in the world for weeks on end. We're a major player on the world stage, and what happens in America gets way more exposure than what happens is nearly any other country.
 
SBu said:
So here's my beef. A citizen of another country joins the website, gets a couple posts under their belt, and then opens up a thread criticizing the US using arguments that span a century or two in the making. Usually these are poorly written rambling arguments born mostly of emotion and boredom.

Here's a thought: Look at your own country; it's history of bad/controversial deeds, it's mistakes, and the shortcomings of your own populace.

Is your country's politics and position really so boring that you feel the need to be more involved in what we are doing and what is happening here? Get a freaking life.

Here's a couple examples of bad things other countries have done and never get discussed here because we don't care.

China - Tibet <--- actually people are critical all the time about China, but China don't care
Germany - Hitler <--- you kidding me? There is hardly any news out of the USA that doesn't compare something someone did to Hitler
Japan- Nanjing
Australia- indigenous population
Russia- communist empire <--- yeah, beacuse nobody talks about that...
France- Napoleon <--- what is wrong about Napoleon? Ohh, you hate the metric system and prefer the inferior imperial one, yeah, that's really the only reason to hate them
Netherlands- Congo and other African nations
Britain- actual Empire <---- so?
Saudi Arabia- financing terrorist organizations
Thailand- drowning islamic immigrants
etc. etc. etc.

Pretty much, name your country and I can ramble on about how it sucks. I'll probably have to do some research because I don't know jack about your country, but what the hell.
Click to expand...


So yeah, you're really off the rails buddy.
 
Cyrylek said:
What King Leopold did in Congo was horrendous. But it had nothing to do with the Netherlands. It was a Belgian colony(the Dutch have their own sins, to be sure, but nothing on such scale).


Anyway, I think we should keep it cool. People feel good about bashing America because, however hypocritical or even erroneous such attacks may be, it is not like they are picking on somebody weak and helpless. We are still the largely uncontested superpower, and are gong to remain such for all foreseeable future. It's like the old fable about a mutt that derives his self-esteem from barking at an elephant.

View attachment 67157172
Click to expand...

Hello fellow Washingtonian. I agree, and I'm not talking about people posting with constructive criticism. It is the poster venting their emotional outburst that I'm talking about. Can't help but kind of see the wolves circling the bear that shot itself in the foot a bit.

Anyway, thanks for the correction.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Oh, trust me, it's not just historical stuff. Most of these countries have serious issues going on right now, and always have, and probably always will. Every country does. Been there, done that.

I would say that on certain metrics, America's issues are more severe than most developed countries. I would say that for some people, the problems in America may mean it is definitely not the right country for them. Everyone has different tolerances for different kinds of issues.

Certainly, I am not shy about criticizing my own country. At all. I don't really know if it's the best country for me, in terms of my tolerance for some of its issues, in fact.

But what I noticed while I was abroad is that, among other developed nations, the cultures that like to criticize the US the most are the cultures that have the biggest issues themselves. For them, it's a way of trying to make themselves feel better about their own society by painting a cartoon-esque caricature of America.

This translates to individuals as well. The most flagrant anti-American individuals I ever met were usually drunkards who were missing a bunch of teeth and couldn't construct a grammatical sentence. I recall being at a pub one evening when some random English dude heard my accent, spun around, and interjected, "You carn't calls that no proper Engish." I was laughing too hard to even respond.

America is a very easy target, since we take up so much space in the media. When Sweden does something stupid, it's a blip on the BBC for a day or two, and then it's gone. But when America does something stupid, it's in every major paper in the world for weeks on end. We're a major player on the world stage, and what happens in America gets way more exposure than what happens is nearly any other country.
Click to expand...

We wouldn't be American if we didn't question our own governance. That English thing is pretty funny btw. I think you are right.

I've been around the block too and I think questioning ourselves very publicly is almost a uniquely American thing...perhaps inherited from the British.

So I guess it's not unique...just rare.
 
SBu said:
Hello fellow Washingtonian.
Click to expand...

Sigh. Not for long - going back to Boston in mid-December.

SBu said:
I agree, and I'm not talking about people posting with constructive criticism.
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Of course. And constructive criticism is always about particular issues, not about the country in general. Like, only an idiot would hate Belgium and living Belgians at large for what happened in Congo. None of them were born yet.
 
SBu said:
We wouldn't be American if we didn't question our own governance. That English thing is pretty funny btw. I think you are right.

I've been around the block too and I think questioning ourselves very publicly is almost a uniquely American thing...perhaps inherited from the British.

So I guess it's not unique...just rare.
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I think our degree of passion is unique. My friends abroad just didn't "get" how I feel about politics, or about activism in general.

But I was raised from the time I was wee that we are all responsible for the state of our country, and it behooves us to take action. That can be supportive, or it can be critical -- but we should do it.

I think that is definitely a uniquely American thing. I certainly didn't see it in the UK, although perhaps they were more like that in the past.

Like I said, I don't even think I fit here particularly well. But for all the problems America might have, and all the legitimate reasons people might not want to live here, or might choose to leave here, it has its pluses too. And I think the degree of personal investment in our country is certainly one of them.
 
Cyrylek said:
Sigh. Not for long - going back to Boston in mid-December.



Of course. And constructive criticism is always about particular issues, not about the country in general. Like, only an idiot would hate Belgium and living Belgians at large for what happened in Congo. None of them were born yet.
Click to expand...

Nor would we attempt to use that as argument collateral to hold them accountable in any rational way for the situation there or anywhere now.

Eh, Boston isn't so bad.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
I think our degree of passion is unique. My friends abroad just didn't "get" how I feel about politics, or about activism in general.

But I was raised from the time I was wee that we are all responsible for the state of our country, and it behooves us to take action. That can be supportive, or it can be critical -- but we should do it.

I think that is definitely a uniquely American thing. I certainly didn't see it in the UK, although perhaps they were more like that in the past.

Like I said, I don't even think I fit here particularly well. But for all the problems America might have, and all the legitimate reasons people might not want to live here, or might choose to leave here, it has its pluses too. And I think the degree of personal investment in our country is certainly one of them.
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Agree again. We better not make a habit of this as I'm certainly no Progressive. I think it boils down to the "one of us" concept. Only we can pick on each other kind of mentality. I may not like your political views, but that doesn't mean I hate you, and I certainly won't let some moron from afar discourage us.
 
SBu said:
Agree again. We better not make a habit of this as I'm certainly no Progressive. I think it boils down to the "one of us" concept. Only we can pick on each other kind of mentality. I may not like your political views, but that doesn't mean I hate you, and I certainly won't let some moron from afar discourage us.
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While it is entirely possible we disagree on absolutely everything (I don't really know your stances), I think a lot of people don't realize a progressive is not the same thing as a liberal, and they can be extremely different. So don't assume. ;)

There is a certain American way of thinking and sense of duty that I do think is something a lot of us share from our disparate political positions. I wish that were recognized more often; we've gotten entirely too polarized.
 
SBu said:
Explanation?
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Americans are very critical and consistently reminding people of other's failings or less than good moments.
 
Rainman05 said:
Americans are very critical and consistently reminding people of other's failings or less than good moments.
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And I would love to see an example of how we do this either initially or unjustifiably.
 
SBu said:
And I would love to see an example of how we do this either initially or unjustifiably.
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You kidding me?

Look at the europe subforum.

Every other thread the majority of americans walk into, I guess by mistake, inevitably turns into a discussion about hitler and how the USA is the USA and hitler hitler hitler hitler. Which is not surprising as the american political class has been comparing most govt programs to Hitler and nazi germany. Amnesty? HITLER. Obamacare? HITLER. The US political class has said in the last 5 years especially, Hitlers' name more times than all of Nazi germany did when they saluted him.
 
Rainman05 said:
You kidding me?

Look at the europe subforum.

Every other thread the majority of americans walk into, I guess by mistake, inevitably turns into a discussion about hitler and how the USA is the USA and hitler hitler hitler hitler. Which is not surprising as the american political class has been comparing most govt programs to Hitler and nazi germany. Amnesty? HITLER. Obamacare? HITLER. The US political class has said in the last 5 years especially, Hitlers' name more times than all of Nazi germany did when they saluted him.
Click to expand...

That sounds like paranoia based on the largely irrelevant conversations of a few history dorks.
 
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