For the Christians: what if the entire structure and doctrine of Christianity was definitively proven to be nothing more than an elaborate fable?

[watsup]

Then what? No Genesis by a Creator God. No Adam and Eve and no “fall from grace”. No need for a “Redeemer”, thus making Jesus nothing more than a carpenter and itinerant preacher. No need for Jesus to be crucified in order to “redeem us from our sins. No God at all. No way to establish ethical conduct except by humans working with one another to set standards. Then what? Do you simply “despair”, or do you adapt within that framework of humans establishing their own ethical standards?

And no “fudging” by trying to turn the thread into a debate about whether there is a “God” or otherwise trying to hijack the thread by changing the centrality of the questions and topic. Just answer the questions as asked, with no assumption of the truthfulness of Christianity or any other religion.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Just for fun I'll answer the question from the other side: The Christian God was objectively proven true.

In which case God would have some answering to do, in my book.

 

[Daisy]

I would still wanna live the life I live...there's nothing better...

 

[Lursa]

Then what? No Genesis by a Creator God. No Adam and Eve and no “fall from grace”. No need for a “Redeemer”, thus making Jesus nothing more than a carpenter and itinerant preacher. No need for Jesus to be crucified in order to “redeem us from our sins. No God at all. No way to establish ethical conduct except by humans working with one another to set standards. Then what? Do you simply “despair”, or do you adapt within that framework of humans establishing their own ethical standards?

And no “fudging” by trying to turn the thread into a debate about whether there is a “God” or otherwise trying to hijack the thread by changing the centrality of the questions and topic. Just answer the questions as asked, with no assumption of the truthfulness of Christianity or any other religion.

Was the Bible written and published?

 

[Napoleon]

Impossible. A fable is an entirely fictional short-story that no one asserts to be true in which animals convey some lesson(s) on morals and virtue. That’s not what the Bible is.

 

[watsup]

Just for fun I'll answer the question from the other side: The Christian God was objectively proven true.

In which case God would have some answering to do, in my book.

Ummm.....there’s already another thread for that. I started this one as take-off of that thread. Let’s not hijack this one when the other thread is already available.

 

[watsup]

Was the Bible written and published?

Yes, we are assuming the world and history as it is to this point, but Christian doctrine as supported by the Bible is shown to be just a fable.

 

[watsup]

I would still wanna live the life I live...there's nothing better...

Good answer. You do realize that the question includes the falsification of all of the doctrines of Christianity as being based on fables, right, and that humans must then establish their own ethical standards without “divine intervention”.

 

[Lursa]

Yes, we are assuming the world and history as it is to this point, but Christian doctrine as supported by the Bible is shown to be just a fable.

Cool thanks.

IMO there is a message in the Bible that I would still want to try and follow, whether there was a Christian religion or not. To me, it's just as easily a philosophy. But the Bible contains many stories on why this message is of value...and plenty of other messages which unfortunately, stray from the message.

For me, I'm happy to have this as guidance for a way to live my life and to treat my fellow man, a version of the Golden Rule to follow: treat others and act with compassion, brotherly love, forgiveness, and peace.

 

[Daisy]

Good answer. You do realize that the question includes the falsification of all of the doctrines of Christianity as being based on fables, right, and that humans must then establish their own ethical standards without “divine intervention”.

I do and the Bible is the guide to the best way of life...

 

[Integrityrespec]

Then what? No Genesis by a Creator God. No Adam and Eve and no “fall from grace”. No need for a “Redeemer”, thus making Jesus nothing more than a carpenter and itinerant preacher. No need for Jesus to be crucified in order to “redeem us from our sins. No God at all. No way to establish ethical conduct except by humans working with one another to set standards. Then what? Do you simply “despair”, or do you adapt within that framework of humans establishing their own ethical standards?

And no “fudging” by trying to turn the thread into a debate about whether there is a “God” or otherwise trying to hijack the thread by changing the centrality of the questions and topic. Just answer the questions as asked, with no assumption of the truthfulness of Christianity or any other religion.

Since true Christians believe by faith, debating such an out of the question, question is a waste of time. Those of you who don't believe need to ponder, "what if the Christians are right"?

 

[Lycanthrope]

Then what? No Genesis by a Creator God. No Adam and Eve and no “fall from grace”. No need for a “Redeemer”, thus making Jesus nothing more than a carpenter and itinerant preacher. No need for Jesus to be crucified in order to “redeem us from our sins. No God at all. No way to establish ethical conduct except by humans working with one another to set standards. Then what? Do you simply “despair”, or do you adapt within that framework of humans establishing their own ethical standards?

In a sense, this is exactly the rationale that helped JRR Tolkien convert his longtime atheist friend CS Lewis to Christianity:

85 Years Ago Today: J. R. R. Tolkien Convinces C. S. Lewis That Christ Is the True Myth

In the middle of the night, on an early Sunday morning in September of 1931, three thirtysomething English professors took a walk together on Addison's Walk in the grounds of Magdalen College at the University of Oxford. The conversation would change one of their lives, and countless other lives...

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Now what Dyson and Tolkien showed me was this: that if I met the idea of sacrifice in a Pagan story I didn’t mind it at all: again, that if I met the idea of a god sacrificing himself to himself . . . I liked it very much and was mysteriously moved by it: again, that the idea of the dying and reviving god (Balder, Adonis, Bacchus) similarly moved me provided I met it anywhere except in the Gospels. The reason was that in Pagan stories I was prepared to feel the myth as profound and suggestive of meanings beyond my grasp even tho’ I could not say in cold prose ‘what it meant’.

 

[AGENT J]

Then what? No Genesis by a Creator God. No Adam and Eve and no “fall from grace”. No need for a “Redeemer”, thus making Jesus nothing more than a carpenter and itinerant preacher. No need for Jesus to be crucified in order to “redeem us from our sins. No God at all. No way to establish ethical conduct except by humans working with one another to set standards. Then what? Do you simply “despair”, or do you adapt within that framework of humans establishing their own ethical standards?

And no “fudging” by trying to turn the thread into a debate about whether there is a “God” or otherwise trying to hijack the thread by changing the centrality of the questions and topic. Just answer the questions as asked, with no assumption of the truthfulness of Christianity or any other religion.

for me it would be pretty meaningless
it wouldnt change my life at all much really besides it bumming me out that the idea of loved ones not being in heaven

id get over it though

BUT im a type of person my religion is a tool for ME, its MY business and MY relationship . . i dont use it as a tool to force, judge or belittle others

and as far s the good things i do i would do those regardless

 

[Napoleon]

Since true Christians believe by faith, debating such an out of the question, question is a waste of time. Those of you who don't believe need to ponder, "what if the Christians are right"?

Socrates was a deeply superstitious man. I’ve always found that odd for obvious reasons. And he simply wrote that off by saying that, while any reasonably intelligent person would and perhaps should view such things with some degree of skepticism, you cannot fault someone for faith in such a noble concept as, for example, an afterlife in which people get their just deserts.

 

[watsup]

Since true Christians believe by faith, debating such an out of the question, question is a waste of time. Those of you who don't believe need to ponder, "what if the Christians are right"?

There’s already a thread for that. I started this thread to explore the question as asked. Please use the other thread to explore that question.

 

[watsup]

Socrates was a deeply superstitious man. I’ve always found that odd for obvious reasons. And he simply wrote that off by saying that, while any reasonably intelligent person would and perhaps should view such things with some degree of skepticism, you cannot fault someone for faith in such a noble concept as, for example, an afterlife in which people get their just deserts.

The “afterlife” as a Christian concept would be a fable under this scenario. Then what? Can those people accept that this life is all that we have, or would they despair at that reality?

 

[Napoleon]

The “afterlife” as a Christian concept would be a fable under this scenario. Then what? Can those people accept that this life is all that we have, or would they despair at that reality?

A) That’s not what a fable is. and B) An afterlife is not a uniquely Christian concept.

 

[watsup]

A) That’s not what a fable is. and B) An afterlife is not a uniquely Christian concept.

The Christian afterlife is indeed part of the Christian fable under this scenario, and we are addressing Christians at this point. If a Muslim or Jew or whatever wanted to join the conversation, then the same standards would apply, that is that their doctrines as supported by their holy book fables would be proven as objectively false.

 

[Napoleon]

The Christian afterlife is indeed part of the Christian fable under this scenario, and we are addressing Christians at this point. If a Muslim or Jew or whatever wanted to join the conversation, then the same standards would apply, that is that their doctrines as supported by their holy book fables would be proven as objectively false.

You don’t know the meaning of words. The Bible is objectively not a fable and can never be proved to be something it isn’t. First you need to address what you’re talking about when you say “fable.”

 

[watsup]

In a sense, this is exactly the rationale that helped JRR Tolkien convert his longtime atheist friend CS Lewis to Christianity:

85 Years Ago Today: J. R. R. Tolkien Convinces C. S. Lewis That Christ Is the True Myth

In the middle of the night, on an early Sunday morning in September of 1931, three thirtysomething English professors took a walk together on Addison's Walk in the grounds of Magdalen College at the University of Oxford. The conversation would change one of their lives, and countless other lives...

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Now what Dyson and Tolkien showed me was this: that if I met the idea of sacrifice in a Pagan story I didn’t mind it at all: again, that if I met the idea of a god sacrificing himself to himself . . . I liked it very much and was mysteriously moved by it: again, that the idea of the dying and reviving god (Balder, Adonis, Bacchus) similarly moved me provided I met it anywhere except in the Gospels. The reason was that in Pagan stories I was prepared to feel the myth as profound and suggestive of meanings beyond my grasp even tho’ I could not say in cold prose ‘what it meant’.

I guess what you are saying is that CS Lewis would despair at having to think that humans would be forced to establish their own ethical standards without divine guidance, but that would seem to be an extreme reaction.

 

[watsup]

You don’t know the meaning of words. The Bible is objectively not a fable and can never be proved to be something it isn’t.

Over on the other thread, Tosca chewed out people for not responding to the question as asked, so I am simply using the same standard for this thread. And in this thread, the Bible is seen as pure fable. Evidently you would despair at that. That reaction seems somewhat extreme.

 

[Napoleon]

Over on the other thread, Tosca chewed out people for not responding to the question as asked, so I am simply using the same standard for this thread. And in this thread, the Bible is seen as pure fable. Evidently you would despair at that. That reaction seems somewhat extreme.

You’re starting with a premise that doesn’t make any sense. How can the Bible be seen as an entirely fictional short-story that no one asserts to be true in which animals convey some lesson(s) on morals and virtue?

 

[mike2810]

Blood, Sweat, & Tears. sums it up well.

"And when I die
and when I'm dead, dead and gone,
There'll be one child born and
a world to carry on, to carry on
I'm not scared of dying
and I don't really care
If it's peace you find in dying,
well, then let the time be near
If it's peace you find in dying,
when dying time is here,
Just bundle up my coffin cause
it's cold way down there,
I hear that's it's cold way down there,
yeah, crazy cold way down there
And when I die and when I'm gone,
There'll be one child born and
a world to carry on, to carry on

 

[MamboDervish]

Then what? No Genesis by a Creator God. No Adam and Eve and no “fall from grace”. No need for a “Redeemer”, thus making Jesus nothing more than a carpenter and itinerant preacher. No need for Jesus to be crucified in order to “redeem us from our sins. No God at all. No way to establish ethical conduct except by humans working with one another to set standards. Then what? Do you simply “despair”, or do you adapt within that framework of humans establishing their own ethical standards?

And no “fudging” by trying to turn the thread into a debate about whether there is a “God” or otherwise trying to hijack the thread by changing the centrality of the questions and topic. Just answer the questions as asked, with no assumption of the truthfulness of Christianity or any other religion.

I wouldn't deign to speak for those who label themselves as "christian" (I don't) but I have always treated the stories in the gospels as elaborate fables. Their value to me has never been based on the assumption that they are historical truths. Their value to me is the value of a didactic parable. There are valuable lessons to be explored, and guidance in "right life" that transcends any need to buy into looking at them as some sort of inerrant history. And it is more than a little ironic that I know of at least several friends who have characterized me as "the most christian person they know.", something I would never lay claim to.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I guess what you are saying is that CS Lewis would despair at having to think that humans would be forced to establish their own ethical standards without divine guidance, but that would seem to be an extreme reaction.

I'm saying that within the framework of mythology Lewis found truth formerly unavailable to him.

In short, viewing Christianity as mythology didn't alienate Lewis from it, but rather reconciled him to it.