For Creationist/ID believers: what are fossils?

[calamity]

I always love reading this. It's the key reason why so many Christian fundamentalists object to evolution. Because it means that humans arent 'special.' That we really are just animals with more highly developed intelligence and abilities to physically manipulate our environment. They find it insulting.

Yep. We are not special. In fact, falsely believing we are is exactly why the earth is as ****ed up as it is, IMO.

According to their (your) beliefs, humans are made in the image of God and so should be held above all other forms of life, sacred and 'special.' To rule over the beasts of the Earth as superior.

The arrogance of some faiths is astounding.

The knowledge that humans evolved doesnt affect my faith in God OR my self-esteem at all. I am not offended by the fact that animals evolve.

THis

 

[Napoleon]

I always love reading this. It's the key reason why so many Christian fundamentalists object to evolution. Because it means that humans arent 'special.' That we really are just animals with more highly developed intelligence and abilities to physically manipulate our environment. They find it insulting.

Funny because if they understood science at all they’d know it bears out that humans are very special indeed.

 

[Exquisitor]

Pretty much.

The next Teacher could appear any day, why should he wait half-a-thousand years for his work to fruit? But he doesn't want to be too far away from that Convergence either.

 

[Exquisitor]

Wow

What do you like about it?

 

[nota bene]

Then you are improperly using the output from one, in order to validate the other, om a way that was not intended. While that is your prerogative, for whatever you tell yourself about your religion, that does not make it a valid argument to say that science validates belief.

In your opinion.

Science tells us the more we learn, the more we should strive to learn more.

When does science do this? And why do you think this is limited to science?

 

[Lursa]

Funny because if they understood science at all they’d know it bears out that humans are very special indeed.

Special is very subjective. Humans have some very highly developed characteristics....so do some other animals. Humans dont have natural sonar. Humans cant run 35 mph. Humans cant hold their breath for 15 minutes. Humans dont have skin cells that fluoresce. Etc.

Our cumulative highly developed characteristics make us the top predator on the planet. And we still dont treat each other any better than other animals. Does that make us 'special?' It's fine if you think so.

While what I wrote can be verified factually, your description of 'special' speaks only of subjective opinion. According to science tho, humans are of no more value or importance or 'special' than any other species.

 

[Lursa]

What do you like about it?

Its appeal as a fantasy movie screenplay.

 

[nvflash]

I’m serious. I know that according to evolutionary scientists, fossils are the skeletal remnants of previously living fauna and flora either inscribed into geologic strata or otherwise better preserved as a result of environmental conditions at the time.

But I’m not sure of how fossils fit into Creationism and/or Intelligent Design. Are they just some sort of ultimate joke that God inserted at the time of Creation in order to keep certain scientists busy? If not, then how and when were they inserted into the Creation/ID process?

These are valid questions. Many times you tell us how stupid we are not to understand the evidence for creation, but you are unwilling to discuss it in more depth. And please don’t use the tired old “it’s a mystery” lame excuse that we have heard millions of times. If you are a supporter of Creationism, then surely you have at least some idea of how it proceeded. And no, we don’t want just a repetition of Genesis and “God days”. My question is more specific than that. Where exactly do fossils fit into the “theory”, if you will, of Creationism and/or Intelligent Design?

You all spend lots and lots of time demanding that we answer your questions about evolution, but it doesn’t seem to work the other way around for some reason. You all go mum when asked to explain your thoughts about Creationism/ID when asked to do so. Can you give a thoughtful answer to just the one question stated in the title?

Most old testament stories really should not be taken literally, even if they were meant as literal at one time, all the translations and politics involved in the Bible just make it so as to take the wisdom you can find that science does not disprove and work from there.

 

[Napoleon]

Special is very subjective. Humans have some very highly developed characteristics....so do some other animals. Humans dont have natural sonar. Humans cant run 35 mph. Humans cant hold their breath for 15 minutes. Humans dont have skin cells that fluoresce. Etc.

Our cumulative highly developed characteristics make us the top predator on the planet. And we still dont treat each other any better than other animals. Does that make us 'special?' It's fine if you think so.

While what I wrote can be verified factually, your description of 'special' speaks only of subjective opinion. According to science tho, humans are of no more value or importance or 'special' than any other species.

Our cognitive abilities are unique and we are the only known species in the cosmos with those abilities.

 

[ASHES]

Our cognitive abilities are unique and we are the only known species with those abilities in the cosmos.

Shall we look at all the other animals on Earth with unique survival capabilities?

 

[watsup]

Our cognitive abilities are unique and we are the only known species in the cosmos with those abilities.

“Known”. That says it all.

 

[Napoleon]

Shall we look at all the other animals on Earth with unique survival capabilities?

We are the only species on Earth with the cognitive ability to overcome natural limitations on our survival so I don’t know what the purpose of your suggestion would be.

 

[Lursa]

Our cognitive abilities are unique and we are the only known species in the cosmos with those abilities.

And yet, there are other mammals who's cognitive abilities approach ours. Ours is just another level up. No different than the incremental differences between how fast a dog runs, a horse runs, a cheetah runs, for example. Or the differences in strength or hearing.

We are the smartest. Cheetahs are the fastest.

As I wrote, it's the cumulative characteristics that lead to success. Ours add up, incrementally, into making us the greatest predator on the planet.

We're also the most consciously cruel species.

 

[Napoleon]

“Known”. That says it all.

Yes, known. A very particular chain of events had to occur to facilitate the development of life on this planet and culminating in an intelligent species such as our own. There is no evidence that happened anywhere else. On the contrary, the more we learn about the universe the more hostile it becomes for life.

 

[watsup]

We are the only species on Earth with the cognitive ability to overcome natural limitations on our survival so I don’t know what the purpose of your suggestion would be.

You didn’t say “on Earth”. You said in the cosmos. You can’t actually know that.

 

[Lursa]

We are the only species on Earth with the cognitive ability to overcome natural limitations on our survival so I don’t know what the purpose of your suggestion would be.

That's not true. Animals build shelters and nests. Animals use tools. Animals work in herds and groups. Animals build dams that change their environment. Look at dolphins...they coordinate their hunts.

Again, it's just a matter of increments. Yeah, we're 'top dog.'

 

[Napoleon]

That's not true. Animals build shelters and nests. Animals use tools. Animals work in herds and groups. Look at dolphins...they coordinate their hunts.

Again, it's just a matter of increments. Yeah, we're 'top dog.'

All animals except humans are limited by natural environmental conditions. We are the only species with the cognitive and physical capability to construct artificial environments which allow us to survive in natural conditions in which we would otherwise perish.

 

[Lursa]

Shall we look at all the other animals on Earth with unique survival capabilities?

Sometimes I wish I had that armadillo thing goin' on! A little armor neva hurt nobody!

 

[calamity]

We are the only species on Earth with the cognitive ability to overcome natural limitations on our survival so I don’t know what the purpose of your suggestion would be.

BS. The only real difference between us and the rest of the animal kingdom is we understand that our future includes death....which explains why we invent god with wild fairy tales behind the desperate attempts to legitimize their existence.

 

[Lursa]

All animals except humans are limited by natural environmental conditions. We are the only species with the cognitive and physical capability to construct artificial environments which allow us to survive in natural conditions in which we would otherwise perish.

We're not limited by environmental conditions? Of course we are. We use adaptations to overcome some of them.

So do penguins and the organisms that live at 20,000 under the sea and flying squirrels, and regular squirrels, and cormorants and..................

Again, it's just an incremental development. It's great, sure. But 'special?' Seems like natural developments to me.

 

[Napoleon]

BS. The only real difference between us and the rest of the animal kingdom is that we understand that our future includes death.

Way wrong. The rest of the animals are confined to their natural habitat. We are the only species not limited in our range by nature. We are the only species capable of civilization, of philosophy, etc.

 

[Napoleon]

We're not limited by environmental conditions? Of course we are. We use adaptations to overcome some of them.

So do penguins and the organisms that live at 20,000 under the sea and flying squirrels, and regular squirrels, and cormorants and..................

Again, it's just an incremental development. It's great, sure. But 'special?' Seems like natural developments to me.

We use technology to overcome them. There’s more than incremental difference between poking an anthill with a stick and building a manned space station.

 

[Lursa]

Yes, known. A very particular chain of events had to occur to facilitate the development of life on this planet and culminating in an intelligent species such as our own. There is no evidence that happened anywhere else. On the contrary, the more we learn about the universe the more hostile it becomes for life.

Or.....the idea that intelligent life ONLY developed on Earth when it's estimated there are billions of other planets and *millions of them with earth-like conditions is kinda cra-cra IMO. To me, that's just plain hubris. To imagine that humans are that exceptional.

*intelligent life wouldnt necessarily need earth-like conditions to develop.

 

[watsup]

All animals except humans are limited by natural environmental conditions. We are the only species with the cognitive and physical capability to construct artificial environments which allow us to survive in natural conditions in which we would otherwise perish.

And? What should be the uptake from this?

 

[Lursa]

We use technology to overcome them. There’s more than incremental difference between poking an anthill with a stick and building a manned space station.

Is there? The humans of 10,000 were exactly the same as us. Homo sapiens.

Where were their space stations?