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Florida lawmakers allowed into ‘Alligator Alcatraz’ say detainees packed into cages

SCrider said:
Why were they able to do that without the drama we have now? No masked agents, no military, no riots.

I'll give you a hint Trump and Miller want the drama and the chaos.
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Because the left doesn’t actually care about people being deported. They care when trump deports people.

And yes there were masked agents under Biden.

It’s all pure theater from the left.
 
The Brad Dad said:
The left criticized Obama plenty, and not just on his immigration policy. Republicans are in a cult, so that's a foreign concept to you. Obama did not run concentration camps, that is 100% a Trump and Republican born and bred policy.
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Yeah that is a pretty funny story.

But thank you for proving my point.
Obama builds an immigration detention facility. No big deal. Trump builds an immigration detention facility and it’s a concentration camp. And it has played out this way multiple times.
Just like the kids in cages bs.
 
Absentglare said:
Well it would help your delusional argument if Obama and Biden had forced the construction of concentration camps.

Apparently they should have cracked down on Sheriff Arpaio and the other nutjobs with the power of the federal government so you wouldn’t falsely blame them for it to defend and excuse what Trump’s doing now.
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So you don’t think Obama or Biden built immigration detention facilities.
Is it dishonesty or simple ignorance. Hard to say.
 
Absentglare said:
All detainment is the same, even when they’re packed like sardines, in ways we wouldn’t do to chickens or pigs but you do to human beings who have committed no crimes.
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They're here illegally. What's your alternative, ignore them?
 
braindrain said:
So you don’t think Obama or Biden built immigration detention facilities.
Is it dishonesty or simple ignorance. Hard to say.
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Oh feel free to cite Obama or Biden having something built like Alligator Alcatraz or CECOT.

But we both know you’ll never do that because you’re lying to defend literal concentration camps.
 
Absentglare said:
Oh feel free to cite Obama or Biden having something built like Alligator Alcatraz or CECOT.

But we both know you’ll never do that because you’re lying to defend literal concentration camps.
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You might have a point if this was the first and only time you and the far left have tried to claim that immigration detention camps were concentration camps. But we both know that’s not true.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
Alligator Alcatraz: Intended to inspire fear. Little or no access to showers. Crowded. No HVAC. Unsanitary and unsafe.

CECOT: No due process. Maximum security prison despite vast majority of prisoners not having criminal record. Proven in court recently that U.S. government still has responsibility over the prisoners.

You and other Trump supporters allow this bullshit because you don’t believe migrants deserve better treatment. You and other Trump supporters think they are the worst of the worst criminals.
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Most importantly, they are isolated with lawyers, legislators and media unable to access the facilities easily (impossible in the case of CECOT).

Lawless abuse is the purpose here.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
You are not having a debate with me right now. You are having a debate with everyone you've debated in the past. My own views are more complex, nuanced.
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What I read below isn't complex and nuanced.

W_Heisenberg said:
I think in general, I just don't like how Trump and his supporters treat undocumented immigrants.
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Vibes is not complex and nuanced.

W_Heisenberg said:
I cannot speak for everyone else in the Democratic Party, but I think it's mostly true that Democrats view "illegal" immigrants more favorably than Republicans. For example, in Los Angeles, part of the reason why Democrats are upset with Trump's approach is because Trump is not just deporting "illegal immigrants," Trump is deporting people they perceive to be members of their community. They like them. They like them because the immigrants, legal or not, are fundamentally good people. And to the extent the undocumented migrants are engaged in a violation of the law, it's a violation that involves mutually beneficial economic transactions. The migrants do not deserve to be treated as if they were hardened criminals, and if it's my hypocrisy that bothers you, focus on me, not them. Insult me. Not them. Punish me. Not them.
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I live in California. I'm fully aware of the dynamics but beyond that, we can have this sort of approach in almost any area of our lives and often have in the past. The complex and nuanced approach is you don't cover up the problems to keep the positives.

"Charlies a great guy and the fact that he beats his wife about twice a year just needs to be overlooked because, one his a credit to the community and two, who's going to take care of her and the kids."

We don't cover up for Charlie.

Your Aunt is coming by to hang out because she needs a little down time between jobs. Last time she was here she ended up smoking out with the older cousins and never put any gas in the car or helped around the house but she did pick up the kids afterschool and it was nice for her sister to see her plus she went to all the kids soccer games.

There's a reason Aunt keeps getting the boot after a few months both from her job and from her sister's house.

We don't hate these people and that is true of illegal immigrants. However have legal immigration and they need to endorse that process. The fact they jumped the line and turned out to be awesome just means they can be awesome in their home country and apply for and wait to be awesome back here again.

Anyone who takes all of that very nuanced and complex thought and reduces anything about that to "you just hate men (Charlie)" or "you just hate potheads or women (Aunt)" or you just hate brown people (illegal immigrants) is being stupid and dogmatic.
 
trumptman said:
We don't hate these people and that is true of illegal immigrants. However have legal immigration and they need to endorse that process. The fact they jumped the line and turned out to be awesome just means they can be awesome in their home country and apply for and wait to be awesome back here again.
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The above ignores that our immigration laws are in crying need of comprehensive reform, and indeed incapable of offering a reasonable path to permanent residency.

In spite of this, reform has been stymied by the GOP, even when having control of both the House and Senate.

As long as our current laws are not able to reasonably handle immigration, undocumented immigrants will continue in large numbers.

The GOP has no political will to actually solve the situation — it’s obvious that U.S. businesses are employing undocumented workers. Draconian measures including renditions and punitive imprisonment in horrible conditions are all that is being offered. Meanwhile business seems permanently spared from consequences of employing those without documents.
 
snakestretcher said:
What 'crime'? Illegal entry to the US is a misdemeanour and a civil not criminal violation-like trespass. Do you normally cage people for misdemeanours?
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A misdemeanor is criminal, not civil, by definition.

Alligator Alcatraz is such a fitting name. Even if you escape, you're in danger.
 
Pyrite said:
Treating these people as untermenschen is the point. Punishment, the crueler the better, appeals to MAGA.
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Fascists have never really liked brown people.
 
Lovebug said:
Good questions.
I doubt that an illegal visa overstayer from Ireland is among the captives
Are we absolutely positive that the punishment fits the "crime"? Are we sure everyone in AA is illegal or are they just brown faces? How do we know? Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the fun de jour.

I read the following article today.
www.wbbjtv.com

Lawmakers visit 'Alligator Alcatraz' after being blocked - WBBJ TV

Democratic lawmakers condemned Florida's new Everglades immigration detention center after visiting Saturday, describing it as crowded, unsanitary and bug-infested. Republicans on the same tour said they saw nothing of the sort at the remote facility that officials have dubbed " Alligator Alcatraz."
www.wbbjtv.com www.wbbjtv.com

Both sides reported.
I haven't seen the circumstances myself but I've been to the Everglades. The thought of all the bugs alone makes me itch. Can't keep them out of these facilities.
A cage with 32 men and 3 toilet/sinks is adequate?
So who's reporting objectively?
People are being held their against their will, without due process.
Why is anyone making excuses for that?
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Post #41


The least awful reason I can come up with is that MAGA is a cult, and that cult members unthinkingly support whatever the leader says and does.

At worst, though, I fear MAGA's support for lack of due process and the indecent conditions reflect the degradation of many in our society: they enjoy the idea that "others" are suffering, especially when those responsible for inflicting such suffering are members of their political party.
 
NatMorton said:
They're here illegally. What's your alternative, ignore them?
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Well, we’re the ones that didn’t grant them legal status but we do have employers paying them to work here, so that mixed message is our responsibility.

And, even if we decide we really have to deport every single one of them for whatever reason, I expect all human beings to be treated with a minimum of respect, to be given an opportunity to defend themselves.
 
braindrain said:
You might have a point if this was the first and only time you and the far left have tried to claim that immigration detention camps were concentration camps. But we both know that’s not true.
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Just blur all lines until everything looks the same?

Well, I suppose that’s one way for you to deal with the fact that you can’t back your own claim.
 
snakestretcher said:
What 'crime'? Illegal entry to the US is a misdemeanour and a civil not criminal violation-like trespass. Do you normally cage people for misdprovincial.
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Misdemeanors are often punishable by fines and up to a year imprisonment.

I don't think you understand the concept of trespass.

If you're trespassed from a property, you're in effect told to remove yourself from that property. If you do, generally all good.

But if you return after having been trespassed, or trespassed when warning signs forbidding trespassing were up, then that can be criminal trespass.
 
Absentglare said:
Well, we’re the ones that didn’t grant them legal status but we do have employers paying them to work here, so that mixed message is our responsibility.

And, even if we decide we really have to deport every single one of them for whatever reason, I expect all human beings to be treated with a minimum of respect, to be given an opportunity to defend themselves.
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To say they're accidentally here?
 
RF667799 said:
Misdemeanors are often punishable by fines and up to a year imprisonment.

I don't think you understand the concept of trespass.

If you're trespassed from a property, you're in effect told to remove yourself from that property. If you do, generally all good.

But if you return after having been trespassed, or trespassed when warning signs forbidding trespassing were up, then that can be criminal trespass.
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What the hell are you babbling about? Trespass laws don't apply to border crossers.
 
Absentglare said:
Well, we’re the ones that didn’t grant them legal status but we do have employers paying them to work here, so that mixed message is our responsibility.
And, even if we decide we really have to deport every single one of them for whatever reason, I expect all human beings to be treated with a minimum of respect, to be given an opportunity to defend themselves.


Unfortunately, MAGA seems to agree with trump et al that migrants are not human enough to be treated with respect, dignity, and basic decency.
 
Allan said:
What the hell are you babbling about? Trespass laws don't apply to border crossers.
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You might notice the poster I was replying to made a comparison with trespass if you were observant, which you may not be.
 
RF667799 said:
You might notice the poster I was replying to made a comparison with trespass if you were observant, which you may not be.
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"Trespass" doesn't warrant treatment along the lines of that accorded to people who aren't considered as worthy of decent treatment as, say, trump, bondi, desantis et al.
 
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