First Use of Automatic Firearm in Mass Shooting ?

[RF667799]

It may have been illegally modified, but it was still an automatic weapon, and it was used in a crime.

So you say. But you have no proof, and appear to be arguing with a phantom.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

The law says otherwise.

The law does not say that guns stolen from the government are actually stolen from civilians.

If the law did say such a falsehood, it would still be untrue.

Yep and including that.

I have not made any fallacious posts.

Nope, it was civilians.

Guns that were stolen from the government, were not stolen from civilians.

See above.

Guns that were stolen from the government, were not stolen from civilians.

Civilians.

Guns that were illegally converted to full-auto, were never legally owned as full-autos by civilians.

Or legally owned automatic guns, stolen from civilians.

Guns that were illegally converted to full-auto, were never legally owned as full-autos by civilians.

Your opinion is worthless
Citation needed.

The way you dodged the question when asked if these guns are in use or are locked away, is evidence that they are not in use and are in fact locked away.

i. What you are unaware of cover an astronomical area, and is not evidence

The way you dodged the question when asked if these guns are in use or are locked away, is evidence that they are not in use and are in fact locked away.

ii. You said automatic weapons aren't used by police, and have been presented with an example of one, that you're obviously struggling to deal with.

Guns that are locked away never to be used are not truly "in use".

Some police forces may issue AR-15's to be carried in police cars, but most just issue pump action shotguns

Almost all police departments in the US issue semi-auto AR-15s to their patrol cars.

Evidence? Remembering that your opinion doesn't count.

The link that I provided in my previous post is evidence.

Awesome. Others might want to use them in crimes, including mass shootings
Your "fun", Versus others' death and injury
Sorry, that's not a hard choice.

No legally owned civilian machine gun has been used to commit a crime in the past 88 years.

Nothing does.

The Second Amendment does. So does the 1939 Miller ruling.

Why do you want a tax ?

Because I think it is something that might actually get passed by Congress.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Or your complete lack of evidence

It was your claim. I am not under any obligation to provide evidence.

So the purpose of your stamp again ?

It would prevent the gun from being used to commit crimes.

So you're saying that every mass shooter, has been granted "unwarranted credit for gun knowledge"

Yes.

How about:
Brenda Spencer
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold
Dylann Roof

Harris and Klebold are perfect examples. The morons even used a TEC-9.

In Canada, expanding ammunition is illegal.

Sounds cruel and inhumane to the game animals.

And dangerous to anyone downrange.

Hunting for food with expanding ammunition also causes more meat to be spoiled, so a true hunter would not want to use it

Nonsense. No one eats the lungs.

5.56x45mm is not expanding ammunition

Funny how it expands.

Nope, you were confused

That is incorrect. I said from the start that the 7.62x51 would hit harder at that range.

You were the one who expressed confusion over why I said the 7.62x51 would hit harder.

QED: you have no idea what the "beaten zone" is

That is incorrect. You are raising an irrelevant term as a red herring.

It would've been a LOT worse, basically everyone at the concert would've been hit

Nonsense.

That's like saying that if you gave 100 random people all the ingredients necessary to make a chocolate mousse, they could all do so
You absolutely don't know what you're talking about
Where and when have you ever trained on it ?

There are such things as recipes and lists of instructions.

No-one rates the M-60 higher than an FN MAG (M-240)

Except for all the soldiers who prefer the opposite.

"Nothing but trouble" huh ?
You're lying about hearing US soldiers talking about it

I always tell the truth.

Again you don't know what you're talking about

I always know what I'm talking about.

You're just spouting ignorant crap based on nothing but your personal opinion

If "you not sharing my opinion" makes my opinion ignorant crap, then by extension "my not sharing your opinion" makes your opinion ignorant crap.

(and please provide a source to back up your claim regarding better crafted)

From the Wikipedia article on the MG34:
"Nonetheless, the design proved to be rather complex for mass production, and was supplemented by the cheaper and simpler to mass produce MG 42"

From the Wikipedia article on the MG42:
"the earlier MG 34, which was more expensive and took much longer to produce"
"Designed to be low-cost and easy to build, the MG 42"

The simpler design is always better

If that were true, the Sten would be the best gun ever made.

"...although the MG 34 was fairly reliable, it was sensitive to extreme weather conditions, dirt and mud"

MG 34 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If I ever acquire an MG-34 to shoot tin cans with in my back yard, I will keep it clean and in good working order.

Stop basing your opinion on Hollywood movies.

G.E. Miniguns are not Hollywood fiction. They are very real.

 

[JLee1977]

I researched this very question a while ago!
The 1997 North Hollywood bank robbery involved several automatic rifles that were illegally converted
There have been a few shooting involving inner city gang / drug feuds with Glocks equip with auto sears, illegally converted
The 2017 Vegas Shooting was allegedly carryout with several AR15s with bump stocks. Not technically full auto


I have yet to be able to find a case where a person legally acquired a transferable machine gun, and later carried out a mass shooting!

 

[TurtleDude]

I researched this very question a while ago!
The 1997 North Hollywood bank robbery involved several automatic rifles that were illegally converted
There have been a few shooting involving inner city gang / drug feuds with Glocks equip with auto sears, illegally converted
The 2017 Vegas Shooting was allegedly carryout with several AR15s with bump stocks. Not technically full auto


I have yet to be able to find a case where a person legally acquired a transferable machine gun, and later carried out a mass shooting!

there are none-the last known use of a legally possessed automatic weapon involved in a murder involved a Dayton, Ohio Police officer who used a MAC SMG to kill an informant

 

[Toggle Almendro]

there are none-the last known use of a legally possessed automatic weapon involved in a murder involved a Dayton, Ohio Police officer who used a MAC SMG to kill an informant

I know of two others, but no civilians, and the guns were not transferrable.

Police Officer Edward Lutes in 2002.

US Navy Petty Officer Gabriel Romero in 2019.

 

[JLee1977]

Miss-use by a few people doesn't warrant restrictions of lawful people!
Regardless whether machine guns have been used in mass shooting or not, why is it that certain people insist on collectively punishing everyone with blanket bans on certain firearms, because of the conscious decision of homicidal people? Its a juvenile tactic that reminds me of grade school when little Johnny would act up the teacher would punish everyone. In 1997 the North Hollywood bank robbers were getting the best of the LAPD until they got two colt AR15 from a nearby pawn shop. What would of happened if that pawn shop didn't have better weapons? Soon after the shooting the government of California put AR15s in police cars and started the process to ban scary "assault weapons" from everyone. As a lawful person how does my mere ownership of a machine gun, that is used and owned responsibly threaten the lives of anyone?

 

[HangLow]

Miss-use by a few people doesn't warrant restrictions of lawful people!
Regardless whether machine guns have been used in mass shooting or not, why is it that certain people insist on collectively punishing everyone with blanket bans on certain firearms, because of the conscious decision of homicidal people? Its a juvenile tactic that reminds me of grade school when little Johnny would act up the teacher would punish everyone. In 1997 the North Hollywood bank robbers were getting the best of the LAPD until they got two colt AR15 from a nearby pawn shop. What would of happened if that pawn shop didn't have better weapons? Soon after the shooting the government of California put AR15s in police cars and started the process to ban scary "assault weapons" from everyone. As a lawful person how does my mere ownership of a machine gun, that is used and owned responsibly threaten the lives of anyone?

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[TurtleDude]

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the real mental illness is thinking that a weapon that our civil governments decree is suitable for its agents to use in our civilian neighborhoods, becomes too dangerous to own when other honest citizens buy it.

Real mental illness is thinking that people who commit armed robbery or drive by shootings are going to obey a gun law

 

[Toggle Almendro]

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It's not like any assault weapon legally owned by civilians has ever been used in a crime even once.

 

[JLee1977]

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Tell me why is a firearm like the AR15 considered an evil "Assault Weapon/Rifle" when lawfully purchased at a local gun store by a law abiding citizen? But when a local police officer purchases the same AR15 from the same gun shop, going through the same background check, to be used on duty the rifle is socially accepted as a "Patrol Carbine".