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Finland Probes Possible Russian GPS Jamming During NATO Exercises

Rogue Valley

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Finland Probes Possible Russian GPS Jamming During NATO Exercises

F2B124E9-E992-4FB3-A077-4876F129B1FB_cx0_cy7_cw0_w1200_r1_s.jpg

Finnish Prime Minister Juha Sipila

11/12/18
Finland says it is investigating whether Russia has recently interfered with global positioning system (GPS) signals in the northern Finish region of Lapland during NATO war games, endangering civilian air traffic. Prime Minister Juha Sipila made the announcement on November 11, days after Finland's air-navigation services issued a warning for air traffic due to a large-scale GPS interruption in the north of the country. Neighboring Norway issued a similar warning about loss of GPS signals for pilots in its own airspace at the end of the October, when NATO's massive Trident Juncture military exercise kicked off. Russian President Vladimir Putin's spokesman on November 12 said the Kremlin knows "nothing" about the disruption of the GPS signal.

Trident Juncture -- NATO's largest since the end of the Cold War -- involved all 29 members of the Western alliance, plus partners Finland and Sweden.The two-week war games took place close to Russia, in an area stretching from the North Atlantic Ocean to the Baltic Sea, amid persistent tension between the West and Moscow. NATO said the drills mustered 50,000 troops, 250 aircraft, and around 65 ships in what Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg called a "strong display" of its capability, unity, and resolve at a time of growing danger in Europe. The goal of the alleged Russian interference was "to demonstrate the capabilities for such actions," the prime minister also said. "It's no small matter, since civilian flights have been put in danger."

As everyone is by now well aware, nothing is true until the Kremlin denies it. Already working on the Russian GPS meddling.....

US Air Force awards Rockwell Collins contract for anti-jam GPS receiver
 

beerftw

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Finland Probes Possible Russian GPS Jamming During NATO Exercises

F2B124E9-E992-4FB3-A077-4876F129B1FB_cx0_cy7_cw0_w1200_r1_s.jpg

Finnish Prime Minister Juha Sipila



As everyone is by now well aware, nothing is true until the Kremlin denies it. Already working on the Russian GPS meddling.....

US Air Force awards Rockwell Collins contract for anti-jam GPS receiver

Russia very likely did jam their gps, jamming anything controlled remotely is very easy, they can jam a specific signal with garbage or jam every signal everywhere near the jammers. The fact it was done near russian borders just makes it easier, jamming range is dependant upon how far a signal travels, things like short wave could technically be jammed worldwide while things like radar would be limited by radar range of the jammer to the aircraft vehical or ship using the same type of radar, gps is by satellite so jamming it would be limited in range unless the jamming was done by sattelite.

Either way anything recieving a signal by air can be jammed, and everyone knows russia has had that tech, and only a fool would believe they would not use it in actual war or even to test and augment their capabilities.
 

PleasantValley

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On the USS America CV-66, we were doing exercises with practice bombs and a Russian cruiser was hanging around at a safe distance like they usually have been seen to do.
This time it was different.
An A-6 was making his run on the target and he noticed the cruiser pointing something at him.
Figuring it was a camera and they were taking pictures, no big deal. We all did that.

Then it happened.
100% of his fake practice ordnance FELL OFF his aircraft.
Yes, all the little playthings just fell off his bird.

It was believed they had some kind of device that could trigger everything on the plane to fall off and they were trying it out.

I have not heard one thing about it since.
That was when the Soviet Union was still around, and that beloved ship was still floating.

After that, nothing surprises me.
 

PleasantValley

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Russia very likely did jam their gps, jamming anything controlled remotely is very easy, they can jam a specific signal with garbage or jam every signal everywhere near the jammers. The fact it was done near russian borders just makes it easier, jamming range is dependant upon how far a signal travels, things like short wave could technically be jammed worldwide while things like radar would be limited by radar range of the jammer to the aircraft vehical or ship using the same type of radar, gps is by satellite so jamming it would be limited in range unless the jamming was done by sattelite.

Either way anything recieving a signal by air can be jammed, and everyone knows russia has had that tech, and only a fool would believe they would not use it in actual war or even to test and augment their capabilities.

Which is why they still teach Celestial Navigation.
 

beerftw

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Which is why they still teach Celestial Navigation.

Things like jets do not use celestial navigation, though in the past missiles have. The f22 has a non gps guidance system that is extremely wierd enough that I do not understand it, and secret enough that exact details are unknown other than it has it. However nearly every country with a major military force has developed or tried to develope a self contained guidance system, for example stealth aircraft it has less to do with worry of being jammed and more to do with the signal being tracked.
 

PleasantValley

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Things like jets do not use celestial navigation, though in the past missiles have. The f22 has a non gps guidance system that is extremely wierd enough that I do not understand it, and secret enough that exact details are unknown other than it has it. However nearly every country with a major military force has developed or tried to develope a self contained guidance system, for example stealth aircraft it has less to do with worry of being jammed and more to do with the signal being tracked.

I was only referring to ships and some land navigation.
My bad.
 

beerftw

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I was only referring to ships and some land navigation.
My bad.

Ships and land nav need guidance too, if such is built for aircraft those same systems would be in the drawing board for navy and land nav.
 

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Ships and land nav need guidance too, if such is built for aircraft those same systems would be in the drawing board for navy and land nav.

I do not doubt that.
I am sure what we used to use is now considered to be bear skins and stone knives.
It is good they continue to develope new technology.
...and I mistook navigation for Guidance.

Still, I love my Tamaya sextant, slide rule, and almanac.
No batteries needed to cruise around the world and back.

Yet in my truck resides a Garmin GPS, and i feel lost without it....and have been.
 

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Rogue Valley

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Does this idiot think that in a real was Russia won’t jam the GPS? Christ. Where do they get these people?

:roll: You missed the salient point he was making.

In demonstrating their jamming prowess, the Russians also affected civilian air traffic.

Geezus H. Christ on a cracker.
 

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:roll: You missed the salient point he was making.

In demonstrating their jamming prowess, the Russians also affected civilian air traffic.

Geezus H. Christ on a cracker.

No you missed another point in that war games are supposed to consider the unexpected. Russia did not make it's participation secret. NATO literally is playing a GAME. Russia is illustrating to NATO that they can war game alternate scenarios too. NATO trusted the Russians to play nice while they war gamed beating them in a faux war. Putting threats on civilian air travel is a great tool to use to force NATO to stand down while Russia takes another hunk back of the former USSR in order to save even one 747.

The Russians did NATO a favor. A NATO member got mad. Maybe even mad enough to fight. Someday. When it's too late.

Geezus H. Christ on a cracker yourself.
 

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Far be it for me to intrude on your collective in fighting, but even the article linked does not explicitly blame Russia because there is no evidence that it was Russia.


I appreciate that in your febrile hatred you blame Russia with or without evidence, in this case because Russia based itself so close to Finland (how dare they?!).


But you might want to connect with reality before you plunge the world into a war you won't win, all based on your growing hysteria.
 

Rogue Valley

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No you missed another point in that war games are supposed to consider the unexpected. Russia did not make it's participation secret. NATO literally is playing a GAME. Russia is illustrating to NATO that they can war game alternate scenarios too. NATO trusted the Russians to play nice while they war gamed beating them in a faux war. Putting threats on civilian air travel is a great tool to use to force NATO to stand down while Russia takes another hunk back of the former USSR in order to save even one 747.

The Russians did NATO a favor. A NATO member got mad. Maybe even mad enough to fight. Someday. When it's too late.

Geezus H. Christ on a cracker yourself.

It's an exercise for Christ's sake. The opposing powers observe, but rarely do they directly interfere.

Certainly not to the point of interfering with civilian air traffic.

Russia didn't do NATO any favors. NATO is well aware of Russian jamming expertise thanks to Donbas and Syria.

You remind me of Trump, another armchair general.
 

Westphalian

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Reality check - even NATO has not directly accused Russia.
 

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I do not doubt that.
I am sure what we used to use is now considered to be bear skins and stone knives.
It is good they continue to develope new technology.
...and I mistook navigation for Guidance.

Still, I love my Tamaya sextant, slide rule, and almanac.
No batteries needed to cruise around the world and back.

Yet in my truck resides a Garmin GPS, and i feel lost without it....and have been.

All the devices you mentioned are awesome. In ancient times even a sextant would have been unavailable, and modern land nav today and what was used them would have been similar but without compasses, they would march in steps to determine the distance traveled and use the position of the sun at day and the starts at night for coordination. The ancient method was dependable enough ancient roman roads had mile markers, and they are near perfectly spaced apart without machinery or calculators or any device to do it, just soldiers marching counting their paces. If you do not know british imperial standard is derived from ancient roman measurement, with the mile in rome being very close to modern british and american miles.
 

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Rather mis-leading headline. Chagos would call it 'lies' except he liked your post (what a surprise :roll:).


But here's what your CNN article actually says, noting that the report is based on -unnamed sources. There is no official NATO source quoted, and as for the Pentagon, who are the most knowledgeable source in all NATO matters:


The Pentagon declined to comment for CNN's report
 
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Chagos

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Rather mis-leading headline. Chagos would call it 'lies' except he liked your post (what a surprise :roll:).


But here's what your CNN article actually says, noting that the report is based on -unnamed sources. There is no official NATO source quoted, and as for the Pentagon, who are the most knowledgeable source in all NATO matters:


The Pentagon declined to comment for CNN's report
Oh boy, pathetic squirm going to new heights.

The CNN report clearly cites a NATO spokesperson as well as the Norwegian Ministry of Defense and AP even received an e-mail from the latter to the effect that it it "was aware that that jamming has been recorded between Oct. 16 and Nov. 7 from the Russian forces" on the Arctic Kola peninsula.

The email bit is not in CNN's report but can easily be found elsewhere.

You appear to be particularly desperate to want to compare this issue with your lie over Macron having called for a European army against the USA.
 
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Rogue Valley

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Oh boy, pathetic squirm going to new heights.

The CNN report clearly cites a NATO spokesperson as well as the Norwegian Ministry of Defense and AP even received an e-mail from the latter to the effect that it it "was aware that that jamming has been recorded between Oct. 16 and Nov. 7 from the Russian forces" on the Arctic Kola peninsula.

The email bit is not in CNN's report but can easily be found elsewhere.

You appear to be particularly desperate to want to compare this issue with your lie over Macron having called for a European army against the USA.

For some reason, he seems to believe we are lazy and won't call-out his lies and fabrications.

And every time, we disappoint him :mrgreen:
 

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Far be it for me to intrude on your collective in fighting, but even the article linked does not explicitly blame Russia because there is no evidence that it was Russia.


I appreciate that in your febrile hatred you blame Russia with or without evidence, in this case because Russia based itself so close to Finland (how dare they?!).


But you might want to connect with reality before you plunge the world into a war you won't win, all based on your growing hysteria.

We can assume it was Russia. And not rule out China's help.

Coincidence is a great intelligence tool.
 

Rogue Valley

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We can assume it was Russia. And not rule out China's help.

Coincidence is a great intelligence tool.

The odds of it being China when the NATO exercise was held next to Russia are slim.

From experience in eastern Ukraine, Russian jamming technology is first class.
 
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