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Feds explored possibly charging Portland officials in unrest

Luce

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Feds explored possibly charging Portland officials in unrest

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Justice Department explored whether it could pursue either criminal or civil rights charges against city officials in Portland, Oregon after clashes erupted there night after night between law enforcement and demonstrators, a department spokesperson said Thursday.

The revelation that federal officials researched whether they could levy criminal or civil charges against the officials — exploring whether their rhetoric and actions may have helped spur the violence in Portland — underscores the larger Trump administration’s effort to spotlight and crack down on protest-related violence. The majority of the mass police reform demonstrations nationwide have been peaceful.

For many nights, federal officials were told that Portland police officers were explicitly told not to respond to the federal courthouse as hundreds of demonstrators gathered outside, some throwing bricks, rocks and other projectiles at officers, and not to assist federal officers who were sent to try to quell the unrest.

The department had done research on whether it could pursue the charges, spokesperson Kerri Kupec said. She declined to comment on the status or whether charges would be brought. But bringing criminal civil rights charges against city officials for protest-related violence would likely present an uphill court battle for federal prosecutors.

Anyone else see the precedent being set, or is it just me?
 

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Feds explored possibly charging Portland officials in unrest



Anyone else see the precedent being set, or is it just me?

If a state or local public official genuinely engaged in criminal activity in violation of Federal law, or incited or induced others to engage in criminal activity, I see no reason for them not to be charged. But mere rhetoric expressing sympathy or even outright support of people engaging in criminal behavior is not enough.

Now, is flat-out ordering the municipal police not to respond to violations of the law against a distinct group of people (i.e., federal employees) a criminal offense under federal law? I do not know. Imagine if in some city the mayor and city council ordered the police not to investigate crimes committed against, say, a distinct ethnic minority or in particular neighborhoods that are dominated or exclusively home to members of a particular ethnic minority? Would that be illegal?

I would want to ask you, Luce, since you are (were?) a law enforcement officer. Would a specific stand-down order from the head of government of your county or municipality ordering you not to intervene in continuing open and violent criminal violations against a distinct group of people be an illegal order? If you saw, say, a lynching in your city but the Mayor and City Council ordered you and your fellow officers not to intervene to stop these lynchings if they are performed against a specific group of people, would these public officers be engaged in a crime?
 
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Luce

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Luce

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If a state or local public official genuinely engaged in criminal activity in violation of Federal law, or incited or induced others to engage in criminal activity, I see no reason for them not to be charged. But mere rhetoric expressing sympathy or even outright support of people engaging in criminal behavior is not enough.

Now, is flat-out ordering the municipal police not to respond to violations of the law against a distinct group of people (i.e., federal employees) a criminal offense under federal law? I do not know. Imagine if in some city the mayor and city council ordered the police not to investigate crimes committed against, say, a distinct racial minority or in particular neighborhoods that are dominated or exclusively home to members of a particular ethnic minority? Would that be illegal?

I would want to ask you, Luce, since you are (were?) a law enforcement officer. Would a specific stand down-order from the head of government of your county or municipality ordering you not to intervene in continuing open and violent criminal violations against a distinct group of people be an illegal order?

They were ordered to stay within their own jurisdiction. That's not a legal order here, as Arizona has shared jurisdiction laws, and the mayor and any police hierarchy could in fact be charged.

But even if those laws are in place in Oregon, it would still be a state level offence. The problem here is that the federal government has chosen to prosecute acts that do not fall inside their jurisdiction.
 

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Yes. You can't count on city officials to protect federal property, so it's best to send a federal response.

To charge a mayor with state level offenses (assuming a stand down order is illegal in Oregon)?
 

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To charge a mayor with state level offenses (assuming a stand down order is illegal in Oregon)?
It sounds like they explored it and decided not to pursue a legal challenge. They sent in people instead.

Nobody has been charged, correct?
 

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It sounds like they explored it and decided not to pursue a legal challenge. They sent in people instead.

Nobody has been charged, correct?

From paragraph 4:

he declined to comment on the status or whether charges would be brought.
 

Luce

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Which means no charges have been filed. That's the precedent, if any.

Yet. Sounds to me like they're floating the idea.

Arrests, if any are made, will be made in the last week of October, for the obvious reasons.
 

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If a state or local public official genuinely engaged in criminal activity in violation of Federal law, or incited or induced others to engage in criminal activity, I see no reason for them not to be charged. But mere rhetoric expressing sympathy or even outright support of people engaging in criminal behavior is not enough.

You realize that marijuana is illegal federally right? So you are saying any public official who works in a state that has legalized marijuana should be brought up on charges. I would LOVE to see them try.
 

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Depends. Did he have the mayor of Little Rock arrested?

I wouldn't think so, it was the Mayor that requested Eisenhower intervene.
 

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I wouldn't think so, it was the Mayor that requested Eisenhower intervene.

This article is about the federal government attempting to justify arresting officials on state level charges.
 

AliHajiSheik

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This article is about the federal government attempting to justify arresting officials on state level charges.

No, the article indicates the Justice Department is exploring whether local officials may be subject to civil or criminal liability of Federal crimes. The Federal Government cannot charge local officials for state crimes.

Perhaps you aren't from this country or aren't familiar with the 3 levels of government here.
 

Luce

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No, the article indicates the Justice Department is exploring whether local officials may be subject to civil or criminal liability of Federal crimes. The Federal Government cannot charge local officials for state crimes.

Perhaps you aren't from this country or aren't familiar with the 3 levels of government here.

Which federal statute are they talking about? Because this is what the article says about the nature of the alleged offenses.

For many nights, federal officials were told that Portland police officers were explicitly told not to respond to the federal courthouse as hundreds of demonstrators gathered outside, some throwing bricks, rocks and other projectiles at officers, and not to assist federal officers who were sent to try to quell the unrest.
 

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Luce

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I apologize for embarrassing you. It didn't seem like you were familiar with different levels of laws.

You were intentionally insulting while you were being dishonest, and you have nothing to say that I am interested in hearing. Good day.
 

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Trump, Trump supporters, and the Republican party are traitors to the founding principles of our Republic. They represent an existential threat to the Republic. They must be totally destroyed in a political sense and made to be irrelevant on the national stage for as long as practically possible.
 

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It should happen.

You are right. It certainly should happen. To knowingly aid and abet the hijacking of private property, the destruction of private property, deliberately keep the police from doing their duty, condone vagrancy and knowingly put American citizens at risk of violence, not to mention a virus, is - in my view - more than enough reason to indict these officials. Thanks!!
 

Logophile

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Trump, Trump supporters, and the Republican party are traitors to the founding principles of our Republic. They represent an existential threat to the Republic. They must be totally destroyed in a political sense and made to be irrelevant on the national stage for as long as practically possible.

I'm afraid the only "traitors" to the founding principles of OUR Republic are the criminals you would happily unleash on the average American. You are anything but a "moderate," as you would like to claim. And it is not the average, hard working, decent American that is going to be made "irrelevant" on the national stage, whether Democrat OR REPUBLICAN. It's the likes of people who speak with mean-spirited proclamations regarding their own citizenry, and would happily destroy their right to leave peacefully as law abiding citizens of this nation. Thanks!!
 

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If it had been possible, Bilbo Barr would have got 'er done. This probably needs an EO, but they probably looked into that too.
 
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