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Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's[W:191]

Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

I would be happy if nobody ever mentioned this topic again. SO boring. I cant believe people are still interested. It is in the past.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

...it is not baseless theory though, man. You know what open-source intelligence is, right? Of course you do, you're a career* military man. The Internet is a refuge for open-source intelligence. The Internet has taught me more than where I left off at high school -- "Holy ****, there's more to the world than the U.S., Mexico, Canada, Europe, Russia and Asia!" I don't understand why you keep insinuating that I'm basing my opinions off nothing more than thin air. I don't get it. I don't use the sources that you and for most parts everyone else instantly condemn whenever they're posted I.e. RT, PressTV, WND, InfoWars, Global Research, etc etc. I use the same damn sources that you do and everyone else that wants to make a legitimate argument against something.

* = A hard thing to do, all things considered. Thank you for your service and the amount of time you've served.

I personally have listened to/read and gotten information from:

BBC, Radio Moscow, Radio Havana, Radio Tokyo, Pravda, etc.

There is plenty of open-source information... It is the baseless claims built upon those sources that we have a problem with.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

I would be happy if nobody ever mentioned this topic again. SO boring. I cant believe people are still interested. It is in the past.

It does provide some innocent amusement.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

I personally have listened to/read and gotten information from:

BBC, Radio Moscow, Radio Havana, Radio Tokyo, Pravda, etc.

There is plenty of open-source information... It is the baseless claims built upon those sources that we have a problem with.

:confused:

Why would you do that? State sponsored "news," man.

And some do make baseless claims, but that is not in any way shape or form universal, which is what I have a problem with. One stroke of the brush does not cover us all.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

:confused:

Why would you do that? State sponsored "news," man.

And some do make baseless claims, but that is not in any way shape or form universal, which is what I have a problem with. One stroke of the brush does not cover us all.

State sponsored news from different governments provide differing viewpoints....

Differing viewpoints allow for a better understanding.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

State sponsored news from different governments provide differing viewpoints....

Differing viewpoints allow for a better understanding.

Since it is being propagated to the people, yeah, I get that. Objectivity is arguable non-existent in the press nowadays, so when I see those state-sponsored sources pop up, I know that I am dealing with an overwhelmingly subjective narrative.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

:confused:

Why would you do that? State sponsored "news," man.

And some do make baseless claims, but that is not in any way shape or form universal, which is what I have a problem with. One stroke of the brush does not cover us all.

It is called "compiling".

I know that most of us "older folks" are familiar with taking news from multiple sources and then compiling them ourselves to try and ferret out the truth from the propaganda. And many of us would take as many sources as we could get. In fact, it was often interesting to find out what you could discover from omission. When one source says something and another ignores the same thing, then there might really be something there. Of course, it might also be nothing at all, but that is why the more sources the better.

True story. In 1990 when I was in Japan I bought a small boombox. It had 2 things I was unable to find in similar units back in the states. First of all, it had a record feature (most in the US could only play audio tapes). And secondly, it had Shortwave radio reception.

sanyo_mr-u4_s8_1_big.jpg


US model of my old radio.

Well, when I got home I hooked up a field expedient OE-292 antenna and my wife and I would often listen to shortwave at night. One night we were listening to Radio Barcelona so she could get her Spanish news fix and right before we shut it down she had me stop. A report was coming in about Iraq invading somebody. I went to the living room and turned on CNN, nothing. ABC, NBC, CBS, nothing. She was translating the news as it came in and I was looking up in an atlas to see where this was happening. An hour later we went to bed, still no US news source talking about this invasion.

A few hours later, I get up to go to base, turn on CNN, and now they are talking about the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Seems Radio Barcelona (the official radio station of Spain) had beat them by hours.

To this day I still keep a small shortwave radio in my survival kit. So that I can listen to foreign radio broadcasts in the event those in the US or in the area are off the air. Just because it is "state run" does not mean it is wrong.

Myself, I still to this day compile my information from as many sources as possible. RT (Russia) and PressTV (Iran) are 2 of my regular sources for news. I do not believe all they say of course, and have to filter the information from the propaganda. But it is good to see how others view something.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

I know that most of us "older folks" are familiar with taking news from multiple sources and then compiling them ourselves to try and ferret out the truth from the propaganda.
I gave up claiming "advanced teenager" about three years ago. I currently admit to "middle aged". ;)
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

It is called "compiling".

I know that most of us "older folks" are familiar with taking news from multiple sources and then compiling them ourselves to try and ferret out the truth from the propaganda. And many of us would take as many sources as we could get. In fact, it was often interesting to find out what you could discover from omission. When one source says something and another ignores the same thing, then there might really be something there. Of course, it might also be nothing at all, but that is why the more sources the better.

True story. In 1990 when I was in Japan I bought a small boombox. It had 2 things I was unable to find in similar units back in the states. First of all, it had a record feature (most in the US could only play audio tapes). And secondly, it had Shortwave radio reception.

sanyo_mr-u4_s8_1_big.jpg


US model of my old radio.

Well, when I got home I hooked up a field expedient OE-292 antenna and my wife and I would often listen to shortwave at night. One night we were listening to Radio Barcelona so she could get her Spanish news fix and right before we shut it down she had me stop. A report was coming in about Iraq invading somebody. I went to the living room and turned on CNN, nothing. ABC, NBC, CBS, nothing. She was translating the news as it came in and I was looking up in an atlas to see where this was happening. An hour later we went to bed, still no US news source talking about this invasion.

A few hours later, I get up to go to base, turn on CNN, and now they are talking about the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Seems Radio Barcelona (the official radio station of Spain) had beat them by hours.

To this day I still keep a small shortwave radio in my survival kit. So that I can listen to foreign radio broadcasts in the event those in the US or in the area are off the air. Just because it is "state run" does not mean it is wrong.

Myself, I still to this day compile my information from as many sources as possible. RT (Russia) and PressTV (Iran) are 2 of my regular sources for news. I do not believe all they say of course, and have to filter the information from the propaganda. But it is good to see how others view something.

I'm of a different generation :3oops:

Anyway, I will look at them from time-to-time, and I'll Google search quotes or stats or what-have-you, and I'll rarely get anything back on the search other than the echo chamber of Infowars and WND types.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

It is called "compiling".

I know that most of us "older folks" are familiar with taking news from multiple sources and then compiling them ourselves to try and ferret out the truth from the propaganda. And many of us would take as many sources as we could get. In fact, it was often interesting to find out what you could discover from omission. When one source says something and another ignores the same thing, then there might really be something there. Of course, it might also be nothing at all, but that is why the more sources the better.

True story. In 1990 when I was in Japan I bought a small boombox. It had 2 things I was unable to find in similar units back in the states. First of all, it had a record feature (most in the US could only play audio tapes). And secondly, it had Shortwave radio reception.

sanyo_mr-u4_s8_1_big.jpg


US model of my old radio.

Well, when I got home I hooked up a field expedient OE-292 antenna and my wife and I would often listen to shortwave at night. One night we were listening to Radio Barcelona so she could get her Spanish news fix and right before we shut it down she had me stop. A report was coming in about Iraq invading somebody. I went to the living room and turned on CNN, nothing. ABC, NBC, CBS, nothing. She was translating the news as it came in and I was looking up in an atlas to see where this was happening. An hour later we went to bed, still no US news source talking about this invasion.

A few hours later, I get up to go to base, turn on CNN, and now they are talking about the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Seems Radio Barcelona (the official radio station of Spain) had beat them by hours.

To this day I still keep a small shortwave radio in my survival kit. So that I can listen to foreign radio broadcasts in the event those in the US or in the area are off the air. Just because it is "state run" does not mean it is wrong.

Myself, I still to this day compile my information from as many sources as possible. RT (Russia) and PressTV (Iran) are 2 of my regular sources for news. I do not believe all they say of course, and have to filter the information from the propaganda. But it is good to see how others view something.

I have owned 4 different shortwave radios since the 1980s.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

I know that I am dealing with an overwhelmingly subjective narrative.

As opposed to the non-biased and totally objective truther and CT sites that infest the internet?
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

As opposed to the non-biased and totally objective truther and CT sites that infest the internet?

I don't use 'em as sources though, 'cause I don't see much of a difference between Infowars and RT...except the sales pitch at the end to buy gold, guns, emergency food and the Infowars magazine subscription.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

I don't use 'em as sources though

But now and again you appear to give their crackpot ideas some credence. Your appear to be a CT fan on alternate days of the week.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

I gave up claiming "advanced teenager" about three years ago. I currently admit to "middle aged". ;)

Well, considering the vast majority I serve with are younger then my son, I often times fit in that category also.

Then on occasion I meet one that makes me feel old. This weekend we had our Annual Ball, and an old Master Sergeant was retiring so they gave her her end of service award and a big thank you from everybody. And even my ears perked up when they said she had originally enlisted in the Women's Army Corps.

I'm of a different generation :3oops:

Anyway, I will look at them from time-to-time, and I'll Google search quotes or stats or what-have-you, and I'll rarely get anything back on the search other than the echo chamber of Infowars and WND types.

Yes, that you are. You grew up with 24 hour information from thousands of sources, so now the main problem is in trying to decipher the good information from the bad.

In my generation, we originally only had 3. Newspapers, AM Radio (which at that time was mostly Top 40 with hourly news), and TV (3 stations - ABC, CBS, NBC).

I still remember it being "cool" that I could turn on cable and catch the news at any time, 24 hours.

Back then there were very few sources, so we "news junkies" sucked it in like a sponge, from as many sources as we could find. Radio Moscow was often a favorite, because it went much more in depth in what was going on in Europe then the US media would. It was also a great source for things in the Middle East, since a lot of US agencies had problems getting news from there (but the nations had good relations with the Soviets so they had more open access). BBC was also good, and the already mentioned Radio Barcelona and other Spanish and Latin America stations that my wife would translate for me.

To me, much of "real TV news" in the US died in 2005 when CNN Headline News dropped the format they had followed for over 20 years. Originally it was a 30 minute news broadcast, repeated constantly, 24 hours a day and updated as things came in. I could turn it on at any time, and within 30 minutes I would know about all of the events that were most important.

Then in 2005 they killed that format and it became just another CNN, with far more editorial content then actual news. And I generally do not want editorial comments, I can make up my own mind about things. I just want the information. OK, so the Supreme Court has stated that Pink Elephants can have children in a gay marriage. Fine, that is information, let me know what the decision was, what Justices were in support or opposition and why they ruled how they did.

I could not care less about how this decision affects the Pink Elephants in the world, or how it might affect the Red Swans, Green Giraffes, and Purple Cows. I do not want to listen to some Blue Housecat telling how it was wrong because they did not recognize his own rights. That is all freaking editorializing, not news. And the vast majority of "News Stations" stack how this type of crap is presented, actually fooling a lot of people into thinking they are getting news when in reality they are getting all editorial.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

Then on occasion I meet one that makes me feel old. This weekend we had our Annual Ball, and an old Master Sergeant was retiring so they gave her her end of service award and a big thank you from everybody. And even my ears perked up when they said she had originally enlisted in the Women's Army Corps.
I enlisted in AU Army Reserve at age 36 - one year over the limit but "they" wanted qualified professional engineers.

At that stage I was equivalent to Major maybe LtCol commander in civvy street.

Did boot camp as a potential grunt then immediately marked for officer training.

Since engineers is a fighting corps had to do all the infantry basics to become a one pip Lieutenant. 18 months part time.

Qualified - passed the technical exams for Captain before I was an officer. Caused a glitch later - that wasn't allowed.....the Col got around it somehow

However - back on your point.

I was present at the RAEngineers qualifying exams when the first women became equal engineer officers with the men. Two of them - one regular full time army the other ARES.

Lived through the EEO for women in the army era - first time women allowed onto grenade ranges, doing demolitions etc.

I'll resist posting "war stories" like the one when..... :3oops:

BUT I don't recall it being 9/11 related. Circa 1978-9

...except it was when I learned demolitions. Military style. Blow the b.....y out of it to make sure 'coz you wont get a second chance.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

But now and again you appear to give their crackpot ideas some credence. Your appear to be a CT fan on alternate days of the week.

I am bipolar after all ;)

Some of those "crackpot" ideas come from the MSM BTW, which is where I lend credence to. Same as I do by having spent hundreds of hours scouring books and databases and government FOIA reading rooms and websites like The National Security Archive or DTIC Home Page or Federation Of American Scientists - or National Archives and Records Administration ... Simply stated: there is considerable foundation for further exploration with several conspiracy theories because so many issues go unresolved, never answered or even mentioned in the official "discussion is over" obligatory report issued several years after the fact. Why you continue to struggle with that simplistic concept is mind boggling because you're not stupid or slow.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

Why you continue to struggle with that simplistic concept is mind boggling because you're not stupid or slow.

I don't struggle. There is no evidence for most of the wilder CT delusions. If evidence is provided then they are no longer CT delusions.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

I don't struggle. There is no evidence for most of the wilder CT delusions. If evidence is provided then they are no longer CT delusions.

Exactly.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

I am bipolar after all ;)

Some of those "crackpot" ideas come from the MSM BTW, which is where I lend credence to. Same as I do by having spent hundreds of hours scouring books and databases and government FOIA reading rooms and websites like The National Security Archive or DTIC Home Page or Federation Of American Scientists - or National Archives and Records Administration ... Simply stated: there is considerable foundation for further exploration with several conspiracy theories because so many issues go unresolved, never answered or even mentioned in the official "discussion is over" obligatory report issued several years after the fact. Why you continue to struggle with that simplistic concept is mind boggling because you're not stupid or slow.

Crackpot ideas come from within....

And not every question will be answered to your satisfaction.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

Simply stated: there is considerable foundation for further exploration with several conspiracy theories because so many issues go unresolved, never answered or even mentioned in the official "discussion is over" obligatory report issued several years after the fact. Why you continue to struggle with that simplistic concept is mind boggling because you're not stupid or slow.

But the problem with most CTs is that they rely upon omission of information as their proof. Yet they call themselves "skeptics" because they doubt the "official line".

That however is not what a real skeptic is. A real skeptic keeps an open mind until they can gather as many facts as possible. And having no facts is not in itself a fact, however many would have you believe that way.

This is the logical failure of the "double negative", and many have tried to debate me in that way. "I say President Reagan entered into a secret agreement with England to crash the economy of Myopia. Prove me wrong!"

Well, if it did not happen, it is impossible to be proven wrong. This is the fallacy of the double negative. Yet they will crow that since they can not be proven wrong, they must be right.

Now you and I have agreed sometimes, and disagreed on others. But if you notice one thing I consistently challenge people is to validate their own sources. If you say something is true, well it is not up to me to prove you to be false, it is up to you to prove yourself to be correct.

There is another thread you and I are involved in that started as a WWIII thread but got sidetracked into something else. Now do I really care about the conspiracy theory being discussed?

No, not really. I only got involved as a neutral third party trying to correct some bogus information somebody started to spew, and things got out of hand. But notice, I am giving actual information that is either referenced, or easy to validate. Ask people who deal in international finance how currency exchanges actually work. Or look up the terms used, especially if you have never heard of them before. Two recent ones I used that are foreign to most are "Fungible" and "Dollarization". These are real terms, and I actually encourage people to look them up and try to understand what they mean.

Yes, I actually encourage people to double check me, my information, and my sources. I invite people to question me, in the hopes that they will learn how to do real research, and make up their minds for themselves. Not just accept anything I say as being true. I say do not take anybody at face value, question and do research. Do not even take me at face value, question what I say and make up your own mind.

This is diametrically opposed to the majority of Conspiracy Theorists. They see any questioning of their beliefs as an attack. Myself, I really could not care less. Believe anything you want to believe, it is your mind and your life. But if I am involved and somebody spews incorrect information, even if it is something I agree with, I will call them on it.

My only real interest is in accuracy and in being as impartial and neutral as possible. The actual issue? 9 times out of 10 I am ambivalent to the topic itself.

Now if say a certain "sad" individual could ever produce factual documentation to back up his claims about secret government collusion with another nation, I would probably admit I was wrong and admit they were right. But without such actual proof, that is just conspiracy theory and therefore is nonsense as far as I can see. Until and unless actual proof is presented.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

That however is not what a real skeptic is. A real skeptic keeps an open mind until they can gather as many facts as possible. And having no facts is not in itself a fact, however many would have you believe that way.

Exactly. I am a Brit in Belgium, I have no axe to grind here. All the facts I have seen in relation to 911 point to the conclusion that what truthers call the official story is true. None of them can provide a convincing alternative theory. They never even attempt that.
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

Crackpot ideas come from within....

Well, you're the first here to use that against me. Congratulations for making fun of a person with mental illness. :thumbs:
 
Re: Favorite Obscure 9/11 related CT's

Exactly. I am a Brit in Belgium, I have no axe to grind here. All the facts I have seen in relation to 911 point to the conclusion that what truthers call the official story is true. None of them can provide a convincing alternative theory. They never even attempt that.

I agree. And to me, the biggest break in the "Truther" claims is simply the timeline.

If you listen to most of them, the generally accepted standard is that they were able to get a bunch of "Arabs" to come to the US, take flying lessons, and plan on a suicide mission. And at the same time they were planting explosives all through the WTC. And they did it so well that nobody ever saw anything. No workers in the buildings reported the planting of explosives. Nobody who planted the explosives has ever admitted what they did on condition of anonymity and witness protection. Not one scrap of paper, not one order for the explosives has ever come out. The absolutely perfect "Black Op".

And then the fact that they were able to do this in less then 9 months! President Bush had been in office for less then 9 months when that happened. Our government's can't decide on anything in that short of an amount of time, let alone pull off such a complex plan and have it work perfectly. Which brings us to the next logical fact, it had to have been planned by the previous administration.

Now no matter what anybody may say about President Clinton, can anybody really see him as being some evil plotter that would plan for after he left office to have thousands of his countrymen killed? No, I can't either.

Myself, I take the most credible early information from a very courageous lady, Betty Ong. She was a stewardess on American Airlines flight 11 who identified to the American Airlines call center the identities of who the hijackers were. And I have yet to hear a credible claim to impeach her final minutes.

So for me "US Government Involvement" is pretty much ruled out. This only means foreign involvement. Now for most of the other Conspiracy Theorists, this generally means Israel. Of course, if you look at the same theorists who claim that they also claim that the government is controlled by ZOG, that Jews control all elements of the press, media and government, and that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are a real historical document. Oh, and that the Holocaust never happened.

So you can pretty obviously rule them out in an instant without even thinking about it.

So what country or organization does that leave? How many other nations or nationally backed organizations were effectively at war with the United States. And able to recruit suicide attackers to do something like this?

Well, there is really only 1. Al-Qaeda. Which was sponsored and bankrolled by the Taliban, who controlled roughly half of Afghanistan.

And finally there is the 4th airplane. If this is a government plot, why have a fourth airplane crash into a field? That really makes no sense. You would crash it into some other landmark or target, even into a city. Not into an empty field. Now what makes logical sense when comparing the two? That the Government made this plan and purposefully planned to fly one of the hijacked airliners into the ground, or that after hearing the fate of the other aircraft the passengers tried to take over as we have all heard?

This is why I tend to believe the general facts of the Government report. Because they generally match all of the information I have been able to accumulate over decades.
 
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