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Fathers

Should a woman have the right to not tell the biological father he is a father

  • yes

    Votes: 7 31.8%
  • no

    Votes: 15 68.2%

  • Total voters
    22

talloulou

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Should a women have the right to not tell a man he has fathered a child? Is that a womens right too? Do women not only have the right to decide whether a man is going to be a father or not but also the right to decide whether he knows he is a father or not?

I forgot to add the poll and I think its too late. Can someone fix it? Options would just be yes or no.
 
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FallingPianos

talloulou said:
Should a women have the right to not tell a man he has fathered a child? Is that a womens right too? Do women not only have the right to decide whether a man is going to be a father or not but also the right to decide whether he knows he is a father or not?
no, I think she's obligated to tell him.
 
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No, women should not have to right to deny that knowledge to men. Even if she's the victim of incest or rape or something like that, I think the scumbag deserves to know he'll be expected to pay out the *** for the next 18 years. I can't think of any good reasons why she should be allowed to not tell him he's a father. Maybe if he's incommunicado or mentally incapable of dealing with the news, but that would only be in extremely rare cases.
 

Kelzie

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talloulou said:
Should a women have the right to not tell a man he has fathered a child? Is that a womens right too? Do women not only have the right to decide whether a man is going to be a father or not but also the right to decide whether he knows he is a father or not?

I forgot to add the poll and I think its too late. Can someone fix it? Options would just be yes or no.
I dunno...how much money you got?
 
F

FallingPianos

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No, women should not have to right to deny that knowledge to men. Even if she's the victim of incest or rape or something like that, I think the scumbag deserves to know he'll be expected to pay out the *** for the next 18 years. I can't think of any good reasons why she should be allowed to not tell him he's a father. Maybe if he's incommunicado or mentally incapable of dealing with the news, but that would only be in extremely rare cases.
the one good reason I could think of, is that she wouldnt want the rapist to have any custody of her kid.
 

talloulou

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Check out this article and tell me feminists have not taken things too far....


"Simply because we have the means to determine biological parentage with greater certainty does not mean that it is in the best interests of children to do so."

http://www.law.msu.edu/amicus/wi_2003-04/paternity.html

and that article is just about why men who have proven they aren't fathers should continue to keep paying child support. It doesn't even begin to address the problem of men who were never told they were fathers!
 
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talloulou

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Oh and by the way I think its important to note that currently women do have the right to not tell the father he's a father. They also have the right to accuse some other man of being the father. In many cases the accused father will be made to continue paying child support even after DNA testing has proved he is not the father! And the women is in no way legally obligated to tell the real biological father anything.
 

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talloulou said:
Check out this article and tell me feminists have not taken things too far....


"Simply because we have the means to determine biological parentage with greater certainty does not mean that it is in the best interests of children to do so."

http://www.law.msu.edu/amicus/wi_2003-04/paternity.html

and that article is just about why men who have proven they aren't fathers should continue to keep paying child support. It doesn't even begin to address the problem of men who were never told they were fathers!
Man, how can you have a problem with this:

Couples and individuals alike may contract with egg donors, sperm donors, and gestational surrogates to create their families. As a result, reliance on biology as the determinative means by which to establish legal parentage no longer makes sense. Functional parenthood—emphasizing the daily, routine, and even mundane aspects of everyday parenting—provides a more realistic approach to defining legal parentage, especially for nontraditional families.
Their beef is with new laws that allow "fathers" to disown their children after 12, 15 years if they find out it's not theirs. Course, what that would do to the kids evidently doesn't cross these "fathers" minds. This article is about protecting kids, not making men pay up.
 

talloulou

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Kelzie said:
Their beef is with new laws that allow "fathers" to disown their children after 12, 15 years if they find out it's not theirs. Course, what that would do to the kids evidently doesn't cross these "fathers" minds. This article is about protecting kids, not making men pay up.
Well if a woman knowing lied to a man thats paternity fraud and while its not a crime currently in most states it ought to be. Imagine finding out a kid is not really yours years later. Furthermore what about the real father who is out in the world somewhere completely unaware he has a kid? All 'cause a women decided to play games? How can you defend that?
 

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talloulou said:
Well if a woman knowing lied to a man thats paternity fraud and while its not a crime currently in most states it ought to be. Imagine finding out a kid is not really yours years later. Furthermore what about the real father who is out in the world somewhere completely unaware he has a kid? All 'cause a women decided to play games? How can you defend that?
I can't defend that. It's a horrible thing to do. Except the father's punishing the kid, not the mom. How can you defend that?
 

talloulou

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Kelzie said:
I can't defend that. It's a horrible thing to do. Except the father's punishing the kid, not the mom. How can you defend that?
I think we can start pushing for paternity fraud laws! Maybe making it a criminal offense will get women to think twice before doing it thus solving some of the corruption.
 

talloulou

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teacher said:
Is a woman more the parent of a child then the man?

Oh somebody please say yes.

It will be ugly.

In the eyes of the law it would seem so.
 

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talloulou said:
I think we can start pushing for paternity fraud laws! Maybe making it a criminal offense will get women to think twice before doing it thus solving some of the corruption.
And when the father does it when the kids 8, than what? This isn't about the mother's lie, or the father's anger. It should be about what's best for the kid.
 

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Kelzie said:
I can't defend that. It's a horrible thing to do. Except the father's punishing the kid, not the mom. How can you defend that?
So what if the woman doesn't know who the father is? should the courts just pick some random guy and make him pay for it for 18 years? Kinda like Jury Duty? kids need support right? i can just see it now, you go to the mailbox, open up a letter DAMN, I got child duty. making a man pay for a child that's not his is ludicrous. Now if he wants to pay, and has been, then he should have equal rights to the mother. None of this, the father pays for 10 years, finds out it's not his kid, still has to pay, and she can leave with the kid and go whereever and he gets no custody rights whatsoever. THAT is what is criminal. i'd even say that if he pays for a child that's not his and doesn't wish to be the father, that he has every right to sue the woman and/or the real father for every dime of that money + interest + punitive damages for the emotional damage and the time of his life that he lost because some lying skank decided it was convenient and made a decision for him as to what he would do with his life.

Divorce is also harmful to a child. I guess using your logic that we can't harm the child we should forbid divorce as well.
 

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Kelzie said:
And when the father does it when the kids 8, than what? This isn't about the mother's lie, or the father's anger. It should be about what's best for the kid.
You say when the father does it.....does what? You make it seem like he is the one who did something wrong. If a father finds out he is not the biological father of a kid when the kid is 8 who the hecks fault is that? It's the mothers....noone elses. She should be guilty of paternity fraud which should be a crime. She should then be forced to name the real biological father who can pick up paying child support! Maybe paternity tests should be required in hospitals before the babies go home.

The thing I can't get over is women fighting for their rights left and right and then turning around and refusing to acknowledge that men should have any rights in regards to parenting at all!!!!!! Some of them believe a man doesn't even necessarily deserve the right to know he is a father!!! Then they use the child as some type of scapegoat for the mess they themselves created. Well...what about the child?

What about the child? The child is probably all messed up! Imagine not knowing who your real father is! Or believing someone to be your real father and then finding out he's not! Why aren't we worried about the child's mental state in these situations? Why are we only worried about the money?
 

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Blind man said:
So what if the woman doesn't know who the father is? should the courts just pick some random guy and make him pay for it for 18 years? Kinda like Jury Duty? kids need support right? i can just see it now, you go to the mailbox, open up a letter DAMN, I got child duty. making a man pay for a child that's not his is ludicrous. Now if he wants to pay, and has been, then he should have equal rights to the mother. None of this, the father pays for 10 years, finds out it's not his kid, still has to pay, and she can leave with the kid and go whereever and he gets no custody rights whatsoever. THAT is what is criminal. i'd even say that if he pays for a child that's not his and doesn't wish to be the father, that he has every right to sue the woman and/or the real father for every dime of that money + interest + punitive damages for the emotional damage and the time of his life that he lost because some lying skank decided it was convenient and made a decision for him as to what he would do with his life.

Divorce is also harmful to a child. I guess using your logic that we can't harm the child we should forbid divorce as well.
:roll: Yes that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Picking a random guy to pay child support.

The fact that you think it's okay for a dad to "not wish" to be some kids father after raising him/her for 15 years is very telling.
 

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talloulou said:
You say when the father does it.....does what? You make it seem like he is the one who did something wrong. If a father finds out he is not the biological father of a kid when the kid is 8 who the hecks fault is that? It's the mothers....noone elses. She should be guilty of paternity fraud which should be a crime. She should then be forced to name the real biological father who can pick up paying child support! Maybe paternity tests should be required in hospitals before the babies go home.

The thing I can't get over is women fighting for their rights left and right and then turning around and refusing to acknowledge that men should have any rights in regards to parenting at all!!!!!! Some of them believe a man doesn't even necessarily deserve the right to know he is a father!!! Then they use the child as some type of scapegoat for the mess they themselves created. Well...what about the child?

What about the child? The child is probably all messed up! Imagine not knowing who your real father is! Or believing someone to be your real father and then finding out he's not! Why aren't we worried about the child's mental state in these situations? Why are we only worried about the money?
Yeah, even worse. Imagine finding out that the man that raised you as his child for your entire life wants to disown you because of something your MOTHER did. Oh no wait. You think that's fine.
 

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Kelzie said:
Yeah, even worse. Imagine finding out that the man that raised you as his child for your entire life wants to disown you because of something your MOTHER did. Oh no wait. You think that's fine.
No I think the whole system is corrupt and perverse and I'd like to see it fixed and I can't believe other women don't.

Lets look at another example. Do you know in most states a man can be married for 8 yrs and then the couple can decide they are going to divorce. The man can sue for custody and the woman can turn around and say....nope I never told you but this kids not yours. And you know what? The courts agree with her! If the DNA shows the kids not his it's not his! However if the women wants him to be responsible she can fight that too and the court will agree that since they were married and he has been supporting the kid thus far then DNA doesn't matter and now the kid is his again!

Don't you see the hypocrisy and problems in this type of system?
 

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talloulou said:
No I think the whole system is corrupt and perverse and I'd like to see it fixed and I can't believe other women don't.

Lets look at another example. Do you know in most states a man can be married for 8 yrs and then the couple can decide they are going to divorce. The man can sue for custody and the woman can turn around and say....nope I never told you but this kids not yours. And you know what? The courts agree with her! If the DNA shows the kids not his it's not his! However if the women wants him to be responsible she can fight that too and the court will agree that since they were married and he has been supporting the kid thus far then DNA doesn't matter and now the kid is his again!

Don't you see the hypocrisy and problems in this type of system?

Yes and that's crap! But that doesn't change the fact that a "supposed" father disowning the child that loves him is also crap.
 

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Kelzie said:
Yes and that's crap! But that doesn't change the fact that a "supposed" father disowning the child that loves him is also crap.
Yep and a mother who sets her kids up in this situation is crap. And it's real crappy for the guy who finds out he has a kid but the kid is like 15 or something and he missed out on everything 'cause some woman didn't feel like it was important that she tell him she gave birth to his child.

There is just no reason for all this craziness anymore. DNA testing makes it so we can figure out who a child's daddy is as soon as the child is born.
 

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talloulou said:
Yep and a mother who sets her kids up in this situation is crap. And it's real crappy for the guy who finds out he has a kid but the kid is like 15 or something and he missed out on everything 'cause some woman didn't feel like it was important that she tell him she gave birth to his child.

There is just no reason for all this craziness anymore. DNA testing makes it so we can figure out who a child's daddy is as soon as the child is born.
And the only person who doesn't deserve to get crapped on in this whole situation is the child. That's why the law should protect them, not the mother or the father.
 

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Kelzie said:
And the only person who doesn't deserve to get crapped on in this whole situation is the child. That's why the law should protect them, not the mother or the father.
If you think our current crazy laws protect children I'd have to disagree with you. You know what would really protect children? Accountability on both sides from both parents.

If women knew that they were no longer going to get away with all this nonsense and that the courts were going to recognize the value of fathers they might be more hesitant to be reckless about paternity.

If women were unable to trap men into fatherhood perhaps there wouldn't be so many dead beat dad stories.

If men had the right to be notified when they fathered a child wouldn't the child be better off?

If men had a real say in how their child support money was used and they saw that it really all went to the child perhaps they'd be more likely to pay it.

Perhaps if the laws recognized the father as a parent equal to the mother more fathers would actually step up and be better fathers.

But to have a court system that ties mens hands behind their backs, blindfolds them, and gives them little to know parental rights while simultaneously attacking their paychecks is horrible and in my opinion actually encourages the downfall of families and the destruction of the father/child bond.

If fathers saw that courts recognized them as something more than a wallet they might actually make better fathers!
 

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Kelzie said:
:roll: Yes that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Picking a random guy to pay child support.

The fact that you think it's okay for a dad to "not wish" to be some kids father after raising him/her for 15 years is very telling.
It's a logical extensiion of the flawed reasoning your implementing in order to rationalize FELONY THEFT of time and money; as well as severe emotional abuse of BOTH the man and the child.

And I never said "it's okay" but the fact of the matter is it should be HIS CHOICE! Men AND WOMEN BOTH routinely choose to abandon children for a number of reasons. Most people don't realize this but technically, until a child reaches the age of majority they can be adopted. That means that a MOTHER could put an 8 year old, 10 year old, 15 year old etc up for adoption/foster care. Except for newborns, is it, to use your word "okay"? HELL NO, it's a crappy thing to do and no child should have to be put through that. BUT IS IT LEGAL? YES! Divorce is a horrible thing as well and in an ideal world no child would have to go through that, but it's not a perfect world. And to strip a man of 18 years of his life, usually the "best years of his life", which he could be spending in search of a good, caring, and HONEST wife is absolutely criminal.

And to tick you off even further i'd say that if the woman does decieve him and gets him to pay for 5, 8, 10 15, etc years of time and money, i'd say that if he wants it, he should get sole custody. WHY? because she has proven beyond any doubt that she lacks the responsibility to raise a child. Any woman that is willing to subject a child to the kind of emotional trauma that will undoubtedly result of such a situation shouldn't have custody of said child. If he wants to let her have visitation or custody rights that should be up to him.

Bottom line is that the current system allows children to be used as weapons in a womans arsenal. the message must be sent that drawing that weapon has grave consequences.
 
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star2589 said:
the one good reason I could think of, is that she wouldnt want the rapist to have any custody of her kid.
Hmm, I simply assumed that rapists are never allowed custody to the spawn of their crime. I guess the world is a little bit more ****ed up than I thought.


Yeah, it would be immoral to abandon the child in this case, but if some malicious bitch conned me into supporting the fruits of her infidelity, the very least I deserve is the right to cease supporting that child. Legally coercing a man to care for a child that is not his would be a grave injustice. The child is going to endure psychological trauma no matter how the case would go, all because of the actions of the mother. Forcing the man to pay for the child would do nothing to ameliorate the trauma of this abandonment. While having the man pay would prevent the child from suffering the trauma of economic deprivation, to legally require him to do so would be no more ethical than randomly picking a stranger off the street and forcing them to support the child. If the woman proves incapable of supporting the child without his money, than she should be arrested for negligence and the child put up for adoption (with preferential treatment given to the man she had financially raped.)
 
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