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Fatal Inaction (One Soldier's Story)

  • Thread starter Thread starter hipsterdufus
  • Start date Start date
H

hipsterdufus

There is no excuse for this from our leaders.




Full story here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/14/AR2006061401928.html
 
This story has been hashed out over and over and over again. Those who desire to do so will continue to attempt to paint it as "The Bush Administration denied the soldiers the body armor they needed, resulting in their deaths."

The fact of the matter is, adding more body armor is not the solution.
Many, many, troops who have been deployed have come out AGAINST the proposals to increase armor, arguing that they add weight and hinder movement, decreasing the effectiveness and safety of US forces overall. People from both positions have logical arguments. Unfortunately, the truth is that no matter whether armor is increased, decreased, or stays the same, people will die. And sadly, no matter what happens, there will be those who will try to spin it to create news stories and make cheap political attacks.

It's just a shame that people continue to encourage them by listening to crap like this.
 

I'm sorry you view the truth as "crap". This story is about a lot more than body armor. There is memo after memo of Rumsfeld turning down requests for more bullets, MREs, Kevlar Vests, Uparmored Humvees etc. It's pathetic and speaks directly to Rumsfeld's failed leadership in this war.
 
There is grousing and complaining in every war and the leaders are always to blame. No matter what was supplied to the soldiers, there would be stories like this.
 
Gill said:
There is grousing and complaining in every war and the leaders are always to blame. No matter what was supplied to the soldiers, there would be stories like this.

Well then maybe it's time for us to re-examine why these failures of leadership are so commonplace.

Perhaps it would be a better use of Congress' time than debating gay marriage?
 
hipsterdufus said:
Well then maybe it's time for us to re-examine why these failures of leadership are so commonplace.

Perhaps it would be a better use of Congress' time than debating gay marriage?
yeah, why don't you suggest congressional hearings. They could start with the revolutionary war.. that's when it began.
 
Gill said:
yeah, why don't you suggest congressional hearings. They could start with the revolutionary war.. that's when it began.

I'll get right on it...

Hello, is this the Whitehouse? I'd like to schedule a congressional hearing on Rumsfeld's incompetence.

What's a good date to start?

Click....
 
Gill said:
There is grousing and complaining in every war and the leaders are always to blame. No matter what was supplied to the soldiers, there would be stories like this.

Does that make it excusable? The leaders of our country should have that almost perfected. If they don't, they have no business being leaders.
 
alphieb said:
Does that make it excusable? The leaders of our country should have that almost perfected. If they don't, they have no business being leaders.
Oh yeah, I forgot. 'Leaders' are perfect and infallible.
 
Gill said:
Oh yeah, I forgot. 'Leaders' are perfect and infallible.

I never said perfect. I said "almost" at any rate they should be more organized and prepared. However, I can believe this soldiers story, afterall, look at the speedy reponse after Katrina.
 
It is a shame that we can't get these soldiers the very best protection, and I happen to know that they are in many cases, having to buy this stuff themselves. This is an average cost of about 1,000 dollars per soldier, and that is a shame. That said, it's the same old story in every war, the government red tape keeps these things tied up in one staging area after another. This will likely not change anytime soon, it's best to do it yourself, and then get the money back from the Pentagon directly.
 

I don't see any evidence in that story that would appear to implicate Rumsfeld, as you claim. The things I DO see that are no surprise? Bureaucratic incompetency.



This is the kind of **** that happens in any massive bureaucracy. It always has and always will happen. It's a horrible shame, but to blame it on Rumsfeld is political posturing of the worst kind. You ignore the millions of bureaucrats who no politician, be they from the left or the right, can completely reform.

Of course, it's not just you who seems to be using the events surrounding soldier's death for political platitudes.
 

Well how about this story which is an example of what happens when people who are not expert in military matters sudden think they are experts, sometimes we get "crap". The Humvee was not designed to be an armoured vehicle. Let the military leaders decide what we need and how it should ber designed, THEY are the experts not you or some senator.



Tom Walker/Eyewitness News There's a new report that the vehicles designed to protect our troops may actually pose a threat. Thousands of pounds of armor could make the Humvees tougher to control, increasing the chances of rolling over.
The Humvee has become virtually indispensible to the US mission in Iraq. But time after time, the Humvees involved in crashes have proven deadly to their occupants by rolling over.
Experts say it can be partly explained by the thousands of pounds of new armor ordered for the vehicles, ironically to protect the troops inside. It has made them top-heavy.
"If I get into a sudden turn, say if I'm trying to dodge a roadside bomb ahead, it's going to increase the probability that it's going to roll over," said John Pike, Global Security.org.
An analysis by the Dayton Daily News found that 60 of the 85 soldiers who died in Humvee accidents in Iraq, or 70 percent, were killed when the vehicle rolled. Of the 337 injuries, 149 occurred in rollovers.

http://story.indianapolispost.com/p.x/ct/9/id/d921cc1c67cfe333/cid/7b3aa09cdd5d5eac/


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Yeah, im tired of hearing stories about armor shortages.

Now, getting the Interceptor Ballistic Armor (IBA) for every soldier should NOT be a problem. There is no excuse for every soldier/marine/sailor/airman deployed into Iraq not having one. Now, with that said, I don't have an idea if they all have it or not. But I assume that with everyone whining about "body armor" that these units don't have it. Now, if they DO have the IBA, that is all they need, there is no reason why some whiney *** soldier (marine, etc) should expect to go out there looking like ****in' robocop or some ****. A helmet and the friggin' IBA is all they need.

Now for the HMMV, Having all that armor isn't practical. I actually prefered the "UN ARMORED" HMMV to the armored one. Besides, there ain't no such thing as an fully armored cargo truck, and it isn't practical to transport a company (around 150 troops for Army units) in only armored HMMV, why? Because those ****ing things only old 5 men per truck (thats with the gunner standing and 4 in the seats). So all this whining about armored HMMVs is dumb. You want armor? Do it like we did, fill up sandbags and lay the floor of your cargo truck with them, what about the sides? You still need to see to pull security asshole.

Armor ain't gonna be around for every mission, deal with it.
If soldiers die, well, thats the cost of doing business. It sucks, but Armor ain't always going to protect you anyways. We don't need to be so concerned with armor that we make ourselves non mission capable.

That is all for now.
 
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