Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

MaggieD said:

He got out of his car.



It isn't up to the LEOs to determine someone guilt or innocense...it's up to juries. This one is a close call. Zimmerman can make bail. If he couldn't make bail, Zimmerman wouldn't spend more than 90 days in jail without trial -- if his defense attornies didn't ask for continuances in hopes somebody would die...something would get lost...yada yada yada.

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He couldn't make bail. Everyone knows that. A murder trial in 90 days? Get real.

Why do you want him in jail? He's not fleeing. Annoying as it is, he IS presumed innocent, remember?

Jailing suspects is basically to try to force people to plea out to avoid a trial. Few people actually need to be jailed prior to trial for any other reason. Jailing someone is punishment before trial at least 95% of the time in my opinion.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Sheik Yerbuti said:

Cries the poster who lied about Martin kicking Zimmerman in the head. :roll::roll::roll:


He was in his car. Trayvon was running away from him. The only way there was contact, which occurred away from Zimmerman's car, is if Zimmerman got out of his car and went after him.

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Who do you chase every time you get out of your car?

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

LaMidRighter said:

I think it is a case of negligent homicide at the least. I don't know if there was a bias that led to bad judgement or if the guy is an idiot, but either way he should have assessed the situation better.

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The crime of "failure to access the situation correctly."

I think I've now read about 100 non-existent crimes on this thread. The crime of following someone. The crime of verbally being aggressive. The crime of approaching someone. The crime of phoning in suspicious activity, the crime of disregarding a police dispatcher...

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:

The crime of "failure to access the situation correctly."

I think I've now read about 100 non-existent crimes on this thread. The crime of following someone. The crime of verbally being aggressive. The crime of approaching someone. The crime of phoning in suspicious activity, the crime of disregarding a police dispatcher...

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You forgot one: Walking-While-Black

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:

The crime of "failure to access the situation correctly."

I think I've now read about 100 non-existent crimes on this thread. The crime of following someone. The crime of verbally being aggressive. The crime of approaching someone. The crime of phoning in suspicious activity, the crime of disregarding a police dispatcher...

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Uh, no. The crime is negligent homicide, if he had a bias because the teen was black then it could be second degree murder. A kid is dead because he failed to assess the situation correctly and he is facing charges.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

OhIsee.Then said:

No, you are incorrect. Because it made the national news. The Feds, as they should be, were uninformed by the state of Florida doing what is intended by the state of Florida. When the incident hit the national news the Feds were thus informed. The Florida AJ because the Feds are now into what happened. Now as far as the state is concerned the Feds are just causing trouble.

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It is because the Obama administration wants the word "racism" said at least 1 million times in swing state Florida to try to bring record numbers of African-Americans back to the polls. Actually, initially Zimmerman wasn't even sure of Martin's race when police asked, not even mentioning race before - and Zimmerman isn't white.

Yet, within hours, a spokesperson with the Obama administration declared Zimmerman essentially guilty and that it was a race-hate crime.

And it is the full administrative, legal, and political power of the White House's Justice Department that is Zimmerman's real challenge. He's a nobody that nobody likes. So he really doesn't have a chance probably.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

MaggieD said:

You forgot one: Walking-While-Black

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exactly, I noted that was the crime a few pages back

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

MaggieD said:

You forgot one: Walking-While-Black

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I don't know how the hell this guy thought that a teen with skittles and a cell phone was a threat. We weren't there obviously but man this "block captain" could have done a little more thinking, the last option is to shoot ALWAYS.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

This story just makes me sick for the family of Trayvon Martin.

Did you all hear about the Million Hoodie March?

‘Million Hoodie March’ Held NYC to Protest the Killing of Trayvon Martin | TheBlaze.com

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

MaggieD said:

You forgot one: Walking-While-Black

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You listened to the tape, so I think your credibility just vanishes since on this exact point I even provided the second marks. Zimmerman only referred to Martin as this "guy," no racial reference. When specifically asked if he was white, hispanic, black, Zimmerman wasn't sure, until later when he said Martin was coming towards him.

Maybe your right, maybe all white people (like "you" in your avatar) really are racists? The white people I know don't seem racists, but maybe you white people just put on good acts in some sneaky racist overall agenda.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Sheik Yerbuti said:

According to an eyewitness, Zimmerman was on top of Martin.

joko104 said:

Totally false. Zimmerman was on the ground during "the fight" according to the 13 year old African-American boy eye witness. After Martin was shoot, Zimmerman was over Martin, and told two women approaching to call the police.

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Dispatcher: "So, when you heard screaming, it was a male screaming?"

Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:

He couldn't make bail. Everyone knows that. A murder trial in 90 days? Get real.

Why do you want him in jail? He's not fleeing. Annoying as it is, he IS presumed innocent, remember?

Jailing suspects is basically to try to force people to plea out to avoid a trial. Few people actually need to be jailed prior to trial for any other reason. Jailing someone is punishment before trial at least 95% of the time in my opinion.

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Actually the process is supposed to be arrest and reasonable bail. It the "reasonable" part that has been unfairly interpreted.

It was never that a suspect is simply free to wander off, that's silly.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Sheik Yerbuti said:

Dispatcher: "So, when you heard screaming, it was a male screaming?"

Caller: "Yes. And the guy on top had a white t-shirt."

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Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt. Try again.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:

Who do you chase every time you get out of your car?

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I chase no one. Zimmerman chased Trayvon. There is no other way there could have been a confrontation between them unless Zimmerman, against neighborhood watch procedures, went after him. Even according to Zimmerman, Tray was running away.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:

The crime of "failure to access the situation correctly."

I think I've now read about 100 non-existent crimes on this thread. The crime of following someone. The crime of verbally being aggressive. The crime of approaching someone. The crime of phoning in suspicious activity, the crime of disregarding a police dispatcher...

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Yup, what is needed is for someone form another country, say MI USA, to keep an eye on Zimmerman. Follow him. Phone in his suspicious activity. Disregard a police dispatcher. Approach him from behind. Possess an appropriate gun. Stand your ground. And see what Zimmerman can be induced to do.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:

It is because the Obama administration wants the word "racism" said at least 1 million times in swing state Florida to try to bring record numbers of African-Americans back to the polls. Actually, initially Zimmerman wasn't even sure of Martin's race when police asked, not even mentioning race before - and Zimmerman isn't white.

Yet, within hours, a spokesperson with the Obama administration declared Zimmerman essentially guilty and that it was a race-hate crime.

And it is the full administrative, legal, and political power of the White House's Justice Department that is Zimmerman's real challenge. He's a nobody that nobody likes. So he really doesn't have a chance probably.

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Ok, wake up. There is PLENTY of racial hatred between blacks and latinos.

Its not just black and white.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:

Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt. Try again.

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Is this another lie like the one you told about Zimmerman getting kicked in the head?

At any rate, I have not seen or heard what Zimmerman was wearing ... but Zimmerman identified Trayvon wearing a dark, gray hoodie. NOT a white t-shirt.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

What if...? said:

Ok, wake up. There is PLENTY of racial hatred between blacks and latinos.

Its not just black and white.

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remember when that Latino cop shot some black dude on a motorbike in Miami a couple decades ago and the riots that followed

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TurtleDude said:

remember when that Latino cop shot some black dude on a motorbike in Miami a couple decades ago and the riots that followed

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That's why I always reserve judgement until the facts come out, if someone did things the right way we should back them 100%, if they did something hideous like shoot someone because of a stereotype then they deserve the criminal charges they get.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

What if...? said:

Actually the process is supposed to be arrest and reasonable bail. It the "reasonable" part that has been unfairly interpreted.

It was never that a suspect is simply free to wander off, that's silly.

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How much "Bail" do you think Zimmerman should have to post? And assuming you think it should be an amount he can afford, what purpose?

This is just the endless demand that the poor are presumed guilty and punished accordingly unless a half ass public defender gets them found not-guilty in a year so - upon which what tiny little whatever that person had is long gone - with the added bonus for some of punishing their poor children and spouse too. All but the rich.

This is American justice, how it works, how to deny justice by forcing plea bargains as the only way to get out. The poor are treated as 100% guilty for usually a year or more as the starting point of the system. And that's what most people, including on this thread, really want.

Being in jail for months is no big deal for anyone. Doesn't really affect them or anyone. When they get out, everything will be exactly as it was when they went in. Besides, it is a good way to force people to stop smoking, drinking, having sinful sex, watching porn or wasting time on forums. It gives spouses and children a lot free time and the person in jail is freed of all parenting, spousal, and job duties entire. They won't get fat there either.

All of you should try a few months in jail - it'd be good for you.

Personally, I've always believed that in serious trials that take many days with major sentence potential, jurors should be housed in jail cells and setting identical to where they are being asked to send the defendant to. I also think the myth that people are presumed innocent should not be allowed to be stated if the defendant was jailed prior to trial. It should be honestly stated the defendant has been assumed guilty and the juror is deciding whether to reverse that summary decision made and carried out prior to any trial.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

MaggieD said:

You forgot one: Walking-While-Black

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A somewhat lesser offense than DWB....Driving While Black, but sure to get us every time nonetheless.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TurtleDude said:

remember when that Latino cop shot some black dude on a motorbike in Miami a couple decades ago and the riots that followed

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William Lozano. Found guilty of two counts of manslaughter after his first trial (acquitted following his second in Orlando). Testimony proved he stepped out into the street to where the motorcycle was heading in his direction and then Lozano claimed he had to shoot the driver in the head in self-defense. From what I recall, he was found guilty because, like Zimmerman, he was not allowed to put himself into harm's way and then kill someone for his own safety.

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:

How much "Bail" do you think Zimmerman should have to post? And assuming you think it should be an amount he can afford, what purpose?

This is just the endless demand that the poor are presumed guilty and punished accordingly unless a half ass public defender gets them found not-guilty in a year so - upon which what tiny little whatever that person had is long gone - with the added bonus for some of punishing their poor children and spouse too. All but the rich.

This is American justice, how it works, how to deny justice by forcing plea bargains as the only way to get out. The poor are treated as 100% guilty for usually a year or more as the starting point of the system. And that's what most people, including on this thread, really want.

Being in jail for months is no big deal for anyone. Doesn't really affect them or anyone. When they get out, everything will be exactly as it was when they went in. Besides, it is a good way to force people to stop smoking, drinking, having sinful sex, watching porn or wasting time on forums. It gives spouses and children a lot free time and the person in jail is freed of all parenting, spousal, and job duties entire. They won't get fat their either.

All of you should try a few months in jail - it'd be good for you.

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are you next gonna recommend that everyone ought to get shot by some cop wannabee too?

you seem to have a hard on for the Criminal justice system. that and the jail question leads to interesting questions

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Sheik Yerbuti said:

William Lozano. Found guilty of two counts of manslaughter after his first trial (acquitted following his second in Orlando). Testimony proved he stepped out into the street to where the motorcycle was heading in his direction and then Lozano claimed he had to shoot the driver in the head in self-defense. From what I recall, he was found guilty because, like Zimmerman, he was not allowed to put himself into harm's way and then kill someone for his own safety.

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Massad Ayoob I believe was part of the defense team in round II. I was a guest instructor-lecturer at one of his LFI courses held in SW Ohio almost a couple decades ago (got an autographed book and a PR-24!) and he discussed this case in detail

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TurtleDude said:

are you next gonna recommend that everyone ought to get shot by some cop wannabee too?

you seem to have a hard on for the Criminal justice system. that and the jail question leads to interesting questions

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I am part of the criminal justice system. I am a supervisor, state, but Fish and Wildlife. Same authority as troopers generally, but different task areas. I train cops with many departments, specifically in firearms and other confrontational situations. There are many reasons I should not and would not make a good patrol officer or what people call "a cop." At my residence is a country/state prosecutor - area is domestic violence, sex crimes, and child abuse. Another resident also is an officer in my field. I oft do things differently than other officers, but that isn't uncommon in us backwaters and backwoods types. I could probably quickly list 50 to 100 terrible flaws in the Criminal Justice System in addition to lists of false myths about it.

The original construction of arrest and trials as in the Constitution for the most part no longer exists and mostly contradicted. The general goal was to not hold people in prison or jail until found not-guilty. The presumption of innocence used to have more reality to it.