Facing Reality: Race Matters (questioning justice in the Travon Martin case)[W:70:96]

opendebate said:

I think that when you say things to me, about me ummmm.....ya are.

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opendebate said:

Just because you took it a certain way doesn't mean that was my intent. If you chose to hold onto your prejudices instead of take MY word for what MY intentions were, it is certainly your prerogative. I am guilty, perhaps or at worst, of being a little less than thorough in my presentation but I'll forgive myself that. This is my first debate forum.

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opendebate said:

Well since you started with one I guess I am off the hook because technically.... I was just standing my ground.

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Black Manta said:

Please point out where I made a personal attack on you?

Oh now you are running?

Well I guess that makes sense.

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opendebate said:

If you think you can conduct a civil conversation and bridal your rage a little I am happy to share my opinion. But I am really not interested in a petty fight.

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opendebate said:

You don't scare me BM. I have a life I have to get back to, but I will respond when I can.

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HonestJoe said:

I wouldn't say such an assumption is supported by crime statistics at all. It's supported by mainstream ignorance of crime statistics (and statistics in general).

The key fact is that the vast majority of people aren't criminals (ignoring things like speeding, "borrowing" stationary from work and the like). Even if, in a given area, 1% of white kids are criminals and 10% of black kids are criminals, it'd still be logically wrong to assume a random black kid is a criminal - there is a 90% chance that you're wrong.

The problem is that people see the news and (misrepresented) statistics which doesn't give a balanced view of the world, both in what is presented and the manner in which it is. We're not assessing anything on a considered understanding of the statistical reality (in as much as statistics can represent reality at all). This impacts all sorts of things of course - race is just one of them.

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Black Manta said:

You think because it's honestly how YOU feel, somehow makes it right? No, it doesn't. Lets clarify your statement for what it is and not move on.

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TiredOfLife said:

You are welcome to try, but you haven't a chance.

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Black Manta said:

So you got nothing. So typical.

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Monserrat said:

There was no rage in my post or in my mentality at the moment so I'm honestly perplexed at how you came to that assumption, I brought up some very serious concerns if you do not want to discuss it then don't but you probably shouldn't have brought up the topic in the first place if you had no intention of coming across different view points then your own.

You keep ignoring my questions, do you not see the problem in making accusations of racism, admitting that you cannot back them up and that they are just a suspicion on your own part while yet still pursuing the same course?

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TiredOfLife said:

You had your shot. As expected, you couldn't pull the trigger.

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Monserrat said:

There was no rage in my post or in my mentality at the moment so I'm honestly perplexed at how you came to that assumption, I brought up some very serious concerns if you do not want to discuss it then don't but you probably shouldn't have brought up the topic in the first place if you had no intention of coming across different view points then your own.

You keep ignoring my questions, do you not see the problem in making accusations of racism, admitting that you cannot back them up and that they are just a suspicion on your own part while yet still pursuing the same course?

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opendebate said:

You make a good point, I probably shouldn't have included the parenthetical reference, I did it because it is involved indirectly but it could be misleading. Still, you seem way too combative and abrasive. Sorry.

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Monserrat said:

Could you please stop turning this onto me! If you want to debate then debate I have made some really excellent points but each step of the way you have failed to discuss any of them or directed your attentions onto me by first wrongfully assuming that I'm full of rage (I'm not), and then saying that I'm abrasive. Maybe I am a bit "abrasive" sometimes although I wouldn't use that word, I'm just strong minded especially on topics where people don't see the harm their thought process can cause. This is serious subject matter you are making accusations of racial discrimination/prejudice and or outright racism and you do not have proof to back it up. People's lives and career have been ruined because of such accusations and frankly I'm tired of people throwing around such harmful accusations like that without being held accountable and that's what happened in the TM/GZ case and it ended up hurting innocent people like when the GZ haters showed up on one of GZ's neighbors doorstep threatening them because they thought the neighbor was where GZ was located.

Anyway I haven't once directed my responses against you personally or anyone else on DP for that matter and quite frankly you responded to my post first so if you want to actually debate instead of just trying to go after my debate style or me personally then fine that's cool.

If you are interested then I'm very very curious as to why you think it's okay to throw around accusations of racial discrimination/racism without any evidence to back it up. Do you really not see the potential harm that that can cause?

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Black Manta said:

Well so far she has not got anything to back up her post but her opinion, and not much else.

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Monserrat said:

That's what scares me the most, even more so the fact that there are many others who have so quickly jumped to the same conclusions without first finding the necessary proof. Making allegations of racism is a very serious thing, I've seen it happen before without demanding even the tiniest bit of evidence to back up those claims. They could really hurt someone's life.

Now I'm not saying that there is no place for discussion on racial bias or discrimination or outright racism. It clearly exists but to try to interject it into a place that shows no evidence of it is very very wrong.

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Monserrat said:

That's what scares me the most, even more so the fact that there are many others who have so quickly jumped to the same conclusions without first finding the necessary proof. Making allegations of racism is a very serious thing, I've seen it happen before without demanding even the tiniest bit of evidence to back up those claims. They could really hurt someone's life.

Now I'm not saying that there is no place for discussion on racial bias or discrimination or outright racism. It clearly exists but to try to interject it into a place that shows no evidence of it is very very wrong.

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Dapper Andy said:

Sure but that half of the country always believes race is the factor when something negative happens to a black person.

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Juanita said:

No, not always...It would depend on the circumstances.. People get killed every day.. Black people get killed everyday...Seldom does it make national news....This case was extraordinary from the very beginning...

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Black Manta said:

I am sorry your comment was so much to respond to and so contributory...



Pot meet kettle.

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opendebate said:

I think that when you say things to me, about me ummmm.....ya are.

Just because you took it a certain way doesn't mean that was my intent. If you chose to hold onto your prejudices instead of take MY word for what MY intentions were, it is certainly your prerogative. I am guilty, perhaps or at worst, of being a little less than thorough in my presentation but I'll forgive myself that. This is my first debate forum.

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Juanita said:

Don't you just love those rose colored glasses....Prejudice can be very subtle.... Some people put other people in more than one category....Maybe GW looked at it as "good" black people vs "bad" black people--you know, those assholes who always get away..... Just like some people can "accept" an African American of light complexion, but shy away at darker skin, will be fine with straight or curly hair, but run like hell from an afro...

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Dapper Andy said:

Maybe not if the black person wronged is a Republican but otherwise yes, always.

And it's getting foolish now. The most accurate quote I saw about Zimmerman's defending himself was something along the lines of only in America can a Hispanic man shoot a black man and a white man gets blamed.

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Juanita said:

Don't you just love those rose colored glasses....Prejudice can be very subtle.... Some people put other people in more than one category....Maybe GW looked at it as "good" black people vs "bad" black people--you know, those assholes who always get away..... Just like some people can "accept" an African American of light complexion, but shy away at darker skin, will be fine with straight or curly hair, but run like hell from an afro...

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