Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

[Conservative]

So let me get this straight; the crux of your argument hinges on an anonymous blog post???

No, the crux of my argument is based upon the actual election results under the Constitution of the United States, another document you don't seem to understand

But like most liberals you attack the messenger and ignore the message. Anonymous or not, what is wrong in the statement in the article?

 

[Incisor]

Sorry but Treasury again says you are wrong.

I'm not wrong, and you haven't provided any info to support your position whereas I cited OMB numbers showing Federal Revenue growing every single year during Obama. That didn't happen during Bush, FYI.

After the Bush tax cuts were fully implemented tax revenue went from 2.2 trillion to 2.7 trillion

LOL! The only reason tax revenue increased was because of the Housing Bubble Bush and the Conservatives were inflating. The same bubble you blame on Clinton and the Democrats. So this puts you in quite the pickle; the housing bubble is what accounted for Bush's growth from 2004-7, the housing bubble is also what tanked the economy. So if you are blaming Clinton and the Democrats for the Housing Bubble, then you must also credit them with the growth you describe above. So when revenues grew by $500B, in which years was that growth occurring. 2004-7, right? What else was 2004-7? The Housing Bubble.

Maybe you ought to take a civics class because we have a Representative Democracy and the President is elected by the EC not popular vote

I am fully aware of our 18th-Century rules. What you seem unable to reconcile is the belief that the voters rejected Obama despite Hillary getting about 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. More people voted for Hillary than Trump...that, you cannot deny.

As has been pointed out and you continue to ignore, California's 55 electoral votes went to Hillary because she won the state by over 4 million votes which gave her the popular vote victory

If we take out Texas, Alabama and Louisiana (roughly the equivalent of California's votes), she won by nearly 5 million votes. What's your point?

 

[Incisor]

No, the crux of my argument is based upon the actual election results under the Constitution of the United States, another document you don't seem to understan

All I said was that Hillary got more votes than Trump. For some reason, you seem to think that translates into a mandate for Conservatism. But it's not. Conservatism was out-voted in November. A technicality is the only reason why the loser will be President.

 

[Critter7r]

LOL, 142 million working Americans employed on January 21 when Obama took office and 139 million two years later, how much revenue did those 3 million non workers create for the Federal Govt?

Well ...

2009 - $2.105T
2010 - $2.162T
2011 - $2.303T
2012 - $2.450T
2013 - $2.775T
2014 - $3.021T


They created that much.

 

[Conservative]

I'm not wrong, and you haven't provided any info to support your position whereas I cited OMB numbers showing Federal Revenue growing every single year during Obama. That didn't happen during Bush, FYI.




LOL! The only reason tax revenue increased was because of the Housing Bubble Bush and the Conservatives were inflating. The same bubble you blame on Clinton and the Democrats. So this puts you in quite the pickle; the housing bubble is what accounted for Bush's growth from 2004-7, the housing bubble is also what tanked the economy. So if you are blaming Clinton and the Democrats for the Housing Bubble, then you must also credit them with the growth you describe above. So when revenues grew by $500B, in which years was that growth occurring. 2004-7, right? What else was 2004-7? The Housing Bubble.




I am fully aware of our 18th-Century rules. What you seem unable to reconcile is the belief that the voters rejected Obama despite Hillary getting about 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. More people voted for Hillary than Trump...that, you cannot deny.




If we take out Texas, Alabama and Louisiana (roughly the equivalent of California's votes), she won by nearly 5 million votes. What's your point?

I find it interesting that the debt when Obama took office was 10.6 trillion and when Bush spending authority ran out on March 31, 2009 because there was no signed budget that the debt was 11.0 trillion of which 450 billion was TARP loans that were repaid in 2009. The debt today is almost 20 trillion dollars so all that govt. revenue you claim Obama generated did exactly what--prevent the debt from going to 25 trillion dollars?

Calling Trump a loser is a sign of a very poor sport and someone totally spoiled. Not sure what benefit you would have received with Hillary in the WH but the fact that the Trump win pisses you off makes me even happier.

Your ignorance of the housing bubble is staggering thus a waste of time, just like pointing out Treasury data, BLS data, or any other official data as you are married to a failed ideology for some reason. I know you will grow out of it but in the meantime you don't have enough guts to even list your lean as liberal

 

[Conservative]

Well ...

2009 - $2.105T
2010 - $2.162T
2011 - $2.303T
2012 - $2.450T
2013 - $2.775T
2014 - $3.021T


They created that much.

Great, now what is your point? Debt 10.6 trillion to 19.8 trillion, so much for revenue growth from those 3 million unemployed Americans who apparently you believe paid FIT without any income

 

[Conservative]

All I said was that Hillary got more votes than Trump. For some reason, you seem to think that translates into a mandate for Conservatism. But it's not. Conservatism was out-voted in November. A technicality is the only reason why the loser will be President.

The mandate is in Congress as well as from the state and local elections something you fail to understand. What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty? you simply cannot accept that your ideology was rejected all over the nation. You really ought to put that passion you have to work to better yourself vs. wasting time here. Find a good paying job, learn from that job, start your own business and see how liberal principles and laws benefit you

 

[pinqy]

I prefer the U-6 for a barometer for the economy and 9.5% isn't a very good number

Compared to what? The lowest ever was 6.8%, the highest ever was 17.1%, the mean is 10.3% and the median is 9.7%. So how can you say that 9.5% is bad???? I suspect you're comparing it to the U-3 numbers.

the 6 million part time for economic reasons are in that 9.5%

Of course they are. But if you just look at the rate, you would have no idea how many were part time for economic reasons. You can't say "Oh, 9.5%...that means there are around 6 million part time for econ reasons."

 

[Incisor]

I find it interesting that the debt when Obama took office was 10.6 trillion and when Bush spending authority ran out on March 31, 2009 because there was no signed budget that the debt was 11.0 trillion of which 450 billion was TARP loans that were repaid in 2009. The debt today is almost 20 trillion dollars so all that govt. revenue you claim Obama generated did exactly what--prevent the debt from going to 25 trillion dollars?

So I just want to point out that this is yet another non-sequitur tactic on your part. You run into a brick wall because your ideology has clouded your judgment, so you switch to a completely different topic so you don't have to answer for being wrong about the last one. If debt was your concern, why did you say nothing when Bush cut taxes, erased a surplus, produced four record deficits in 8 years, and doubled the debt? Where were your teabags then? Where was the outrage? The answer is nowhere because you and I both know that "debt" is where you focus on because big numbers are so, so scary!just a red herring you use as an excuse to further undermine the social safety net.

Yes, Obama grew the debt. He had no choice because your stupid tax cuts didn't deliver on the promises made of them, and your desperate scramble to stimulate the economy ahead of the 2004 election ended up blowing up our economy. There's also the War on Terror which you gave us that wasn't paid for, and that War on Terror produced absolutely nothing except ISIS and more terrorism. You didn't even get bin Laden! You were too busy exploding the deficit and making promises you knew you couldn't keep.

Calling Drumpf a loser

He is a loser. He got less votes than Hillary did. More people in this country voted for her than for him. That, you cannot deny.

Not sure what benefit you would have received with Hillary in the WH but the fact that the Drumpf win pisses you off makes me even happier.

You need to get a life, then. Or some mental health.

Your ignorance of the housing bubble is staggering thus a waste of time, just like pointing out Treasury data, BLS data, or any other official data as you are married to a failed ideology for some reason.

I think you're just throwing out random words in the hopes that you can shirk responsibility for what you believe.

 

[Conservative]

Compared to what? The lowest ever was 6.8%, the highest ever was 17.1%, the mean is 10.3% and the median is 9.7%. So how can you say that 9.5% is bad???? I suspect you're comparing it to the U-3 numbers.


Of course they are. But if you just look at the rate, you would have no idea how many were part time for economic reasons. You can't say "Oh, 9.5%...that means there are around 6 million part time for econ reasons."

What I am saying and the electorate agreed with me, 9.5% U-6 doesn't signal the success that the left wants to portray about the economy and that when you add 10 trillion to the debt much of which was supposed to create jobs this isn't a record to be proud of.

 

[Incisor]

Great, now what is your point? Debt 10.6 trillion to 19.8 trillion, so much for revenue growth from those 3 million unemployed Americans who apparently you believe paid FIT without any income

Debt grew because of your stupid tax cuts and your stupid wars in the Middle East.

 

[Incisor]

What I am saying and the electorate agreed with me

No they didn't. Hillary got 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. Democrats got more votes in the aggregate than Conservatives in the House and Senate. More people voted Democratic than Republican in the last election. That's a fact.

 

[pinqy]

What I am saying and the electorate agreed with me, 9.5% U-6 doesn't signal the success that the left wants to portray about the .

What number would have?

 

[Incisor]

The mandate is in Congress u

Oh, you mean the Congress that saw Democrats get more votes in total than Conservatives? Gerrymandering is not a mandate.

 

[Moderate Right]

The idea that things happen just because comes from the same school of thought that you can be as horrible a person as you can and all your sins can be absolved by saying a few words to an imaginary being.

Well, I won't deny that specific example but I will also say that liberals have the same school of thought that we should just let jobs go to other countries because there is nothing we can do about it. You're specific example does not just apply to anything you want to apply it to.

 

[Conservative]

What number would have?

I would have expected historic lows, wouldn't you?

 

[Moderate Right]

So California isn't a part of America? Since when?

But if you take the other 49 states, Trump beat Clinton. Are you saying that the other 49 states aren't part of America? Since when?

 

[Conservative]

Debt grew because of your stupid tax cuts and your stupid wars in the Middle East.

Tell your parents to send theirs back, how many liberals rejected keeping more of their own money?

 

[Born Free]

The stimulus didn't fail, it did exactly what it was supposed to do; temporarily stimulate the economy until consumer demand returned. The reason it's taken so long is because Conservatives oppose increasing consumer demand.

Trouble is it was not just the 800 billion but Obama pumped into the economy 10 TRILLION of borrowed money. I call that failure. But of course liberals blame someone else for their failure as they are always perfect.

 

[Incisor]

Well, I won't deny that specific example but I will also say that liberals have the same school of thought that we should just let jobs go to other countries because there is nothing we can do about it. You're specific example does not just apply to anything you want to apply it to.

Oh, there's plenty we can do about it...the problem is you don't want to do any of those things.

The only way those jobs are "coming back" is if American workers work for the same wage and in the same conditions Third World workers do. How realistic do you think that is?

 

[Incisor]

But if you take the other 49 states, Trump beat Clinton. Are you saying that the other 49 states aren't part of America? Since when?

Well, our union is 50 states, not 49. And if you take out Texas, Louisiana, and Alabama, Hillary won by 5,000,000 votes. What's your point?

 

[Incisor]

Tell your parents to send theirs back, how many liberals rejected keeping more of their own money?

How about you take responsibility for your policy failures like an adult?

 

[Incisor]

Trouble is it was not just the 800 billion but Obama pumped into the economy 10 TRILLION of borrowed money. I call that failure. But of course liberals blame someone else for their failure as they are always perfect.

Where was all this debt concern when Bush erased a surplus, produced 4 record deficits in 8 years, and doubled the debt?

 

[Incisor]

Trouble is it was not just the 800 billion but Obama pumped into the economy 10 TRILLION of borrowed money. I call that failure. But of course liberals blame someone else for their failure as they are always perfect.

Please, tell me why debt is such a concern for you today when it wasn't 16 years ago when Bush erased a surplus and produced 4 record deficits in 8 years?

 

[Conservative]

How about you take responsibility for your policy failures like an adult?

I always do, the problem is research doesn't support your claim that people keeping more of their money is a failure. Apparently to you all the money the govt. spends is necessary thus the topic of this thread is to your liking. spending is what causes debt not people keeping more of their own money. Obama cared so much about the debt that he proposed a 4.3 trillion dollar budget, the last Bush budget by the way was 3 trillion and it was rejected by the Democrat controlled Congress. Obama signed the 2009 budget in March 2009 and that is when Bush spending authority ran out