Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

[Incisor]

Well, the country disagrees with you at the national, state, and local elections because you see what you want to see

Again, Hillary got 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. Democrats got more votes in the aggregate in both the Senate and the House. They also made small, but modest gains in State Legislatures. But you raise an interesting point. Since 2011, Conservatives have controlled the House. Since 2011, Conservatives have controlled most state legislatures and governorships. Since 2015, Conservatives have controlled the Senate. So when you talk about how bad Obama's economy is, it's not really his, is it? You guys have had control for most of it, so wouldn't you be the ones responsible for the poor economy?

I voted for Change in November, you voted for the status quo, you lost

What change? Trump's filling his cabinet with nothing but establishment Bush Republicans and Wall Street execs!

 

[Conservative]

Yes, the deficit peacocks will get deficit amnesia on 1/21/17.

Yep, Trump has started already, cutting the cost of the new Air Force One, the F-35, focusing on jobs returning to this country meaning more revenue. Going to be along four years for you but oh wait, President Elect Hillary and the electorate validated the Obama record with the national, state and local elections?

 

[Born Free]

Yes, and it's been that way since 2011. So that brings up an interesting self-contradiction on your part. You claim (generally) that the Obama years were terrible for this country, yet Conservatives, as you rightly point out, controlled most of this country during Obama's term. So wouldn't that then mean that Conservatives are the ones responsible for the terrible economy since you've controlled as many positions as you've pointed out?

This is your Idea of good democrat leadership

Democrats Run America?s Ten Poorest Cities ? Eagle Rising

SHOCKER: Most Dangerous Cities In America Are All RUN BY DEMOCRATS

Hillary got 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. Democrats got more votes in the aggregate in both the House and Senate than Conservatives.

I repeat, under Obama's failed policies he first lost the House and then the Senate and then the presidency. The margins are so good you have no say in anything...

Then you can finally bear the responsibility for your policy failures that you skirted the last couple times.

Unlike the winney left who will blame all their failures on someone else, even blaming each other in your own ranks. We're big boys, now that you have no say in anything stand aside and watch.

 

[Conservative]

Again, Hillary got 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. Democrats got more votes in the aggregate in both the Senate and the House. They also made small, but modest gains in State Legislatures. But you raise an interesting point. Since 2011, Conservatives have controlled the House. Since 2011, Conservatives have controlled most state legislatures and governorships. Since 2015, Conservatives have controlled the Senate. So when you talk about how bad Obama's economy is, it's not really his, is it? You guys have had control for most of it, so wouldn't you be the ones responsible for the poor economy?




What change? Trump's filling his cabinet with nothing but establishment Bush Republicans and Wall Street execs!

Already showed you where 6 million of those votes came but that doesn't matter to you which also translated into the state and local tallies you want to tout when the reality is, Democrats lost the Congress and the WH which is going to make it a long four years for you.

Change meaning questioning costs and actually bringing jobs back to this country something Obama never did but oh, wait, Hillary did win in November, didn't she?

 

[Conservative]

Again, Hillary got 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. Democrats got more votes in the aggregate in both the Senate and the House. They also made small, but modest gains in State Legislatures. But you raise an interesting point. Since 2011, Conservatives have controlled the House. Since 2011, Conservatives have controlled most state legislatures and governorships. Since 2015, Conservatives have controlled the Senate. So when you talk about how bad Obama's economy is, it's not really his, is it? You guys have had control for most of it, so wouldn't you be the ones responsible for the poor economy?




What change? Trump's filling his cabinet with nothing but establishment Bush Republicans and Wall Street execs!

Here is what flyover country saw and feels about Obama, good reading for you

Good Riddance Barack Obama, You Narcissistic, Anti-Semitic Dung Heap

I do have a good New Year's resolution for you have watching you over the past year. I am now going to go through the rest of my life blaming everyone else for any personal failures I have and never accepting responsibility just like the left has taught me. That is the Obama legacy

 

[Incisor]

Bush has been out of office for 8 years and for some reason you cannot get over it.

Because you refuse to accept responsibility for his failures. You refuse to accept responsibility for the failure of the tax cuts, the failure of the Iraq War, the failure of Medicare Part-D, the mortgage bubble, etc. You all try to socialize the blame. Accept responsibility for the failures, and we don't have to talk Bush anymore.

Democrats controlled the Congress from January 2007 to January 2011. the recession started in December 2007.

But the secondary mortgage market was falling apart at the end of 2006 because that's when the defaults started happening for subprimes issued starting in 2004. The recession came about as a result of that bubble popping. A bubble Bush and the Conservatives inflated. This is getting back to my point from above; how I'll gladly stop talking about Bush when you start accepting responsibility for the failures.

The Mortgage bubble started in the late 90's under Clinton

No it didn't. Look at the chart below and you tell me where you see a bubble:

but don't let those facts get i the way of your personal opinions

Firstly, it's not a fact as the chart above demonstrates. Secondly, when exactly did the subprime bubble start, if it started under Clinton as you claim? Because when you look at the chart above, you see the subprime market was actually in decline until Bush kicked it into high gear beginning in 2004.

What you fail to recognize is that there was no surplus under Clinton as he took the debt up 1.4 trillion but that is irrelevant today.

There most definitely was a surplus. See in the link the first column titled "current dollars", and scroll down to 1998-2001 and you'll see that there was definitely a surplus:

1998: $69.3B
1999: $125.6B
2000: $236.2B
2001: $128.2B (First year of Bush Tax Cuts...notice how the deficit shrank)

One you all squandered on tax cuts that didn't pay for themselves, and an unwinnable campaign of occupation in the Middle East. Thing is, this information is very accessible so there's no excuse for you getting it wrong.

 

[Incisor]

Yep, Trump has started already, cutting the cost of the new Air Force One, the F-35, focusing on jobs returning to this country meaning more revenue.

Trump hasn't done anything yet but ride Obama's long coattails.

 

[Incisor]

This is your Idea of good democrat leadership

No, this is my idea of good Democratic leadership.

And for all your bluster about cities, most Americans live in or around cities and more and more of them are moving to cities because that's where the opportunity is (I live in Atlanta and we are expected to get 1-2 million more people in the next 10 years). Also, I find it hilarious that you lament the decay of some cities while at the same time opposing any social programs that will improve them. It almost seems like you want to perpetuate a problem so you can complain about it. Like welfare. You complain about people on welfare, yet oppose raising the minimum wage which would lower the amount of welfare spent. Pretty much all Conservative arguments are circular like that.

I repeat, under Obama's failed policies he first lost the House and then the Senate and then the presidency.

What policies? And didn't Republicans lie about Medicare in 2010 in order to win elections?

Unlike the winney left who will blame all their failures on someone else, even blaming each other in your own ranks. We're big boys, now that you have no say in anything stand aside and watch.

Says the guy who blames the Bush Mortgage Bubble on Clinton and the Iraq War on Democrats. When are those tax cuts gonna pay for themselves? When's the trickle-down gonna start?

 

[Conservative]

Because you refuse to accept responsibility for his failures. You refuse to accept responsibility for the failure of the tax cuts, the failure of the Iraq War, the failure of Medicare Part-D, the mortgage bubble, etc. You all try to socialize the blame. Accept responsibility for the failures, and we don't have to talk Bush anymore.




But the secondary mortgage market was falling apart at the end of 2006 because that's when the defaults started happening for subprimes issued starting in 2004. The recession came about as a result of that bubble popping. A bubble Bush and the Conservatives inflated. This is getting back to my point from above; how I'll gladly stop talking about Bush when you start accepting responsibility for the failures.




No it didn't. Look at the chart below and you tell me where you see a bubble:

View attachment 67211884




Firstly, it's not a fact as the chart above demonstrates. Secondly, when exactly did the subprime bubble start, if it started under Clinton as you claim? Because when you look at the chart above, you see the subprime market was actually in decline until Bush kicked it into high gear beginning in 2004.




There most definitely was a surplus. See in the link the first column titled "current dollars", and scroll down to 1998-2001 and you'll see that there was definitely a surplus:

1998: $69.3B
1999: $125.6B
2000: $236.2B
2001: $128.2B (First year of Bush Tax Cuts...notice how the deficit shrank)

One you all squandered on tax cuts that didn't pay for themselves, and an unwinnable campaign of occupation in the Middle East. Thing is, this information is very accessible so there's no excuse for you getting it wrong.

NO, sorry there wasn't a surplus as like most far leftists you have no understanding of what constitutes the debt. Treasury explains it for you but for some reason you refuse to accept the official data from the bank account of the United States

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2015

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding – Annual

US Federal Budget Spending Estimate vs. Actual for FY2015 - Charts

As with most liberals you have a passion for your ideology which you will outgrow as you grow older and become more experienced. it really is a shame how easy it is to indoctrinate so many and how people like you are so convinced that liberalism is the way to go when it is a failure and always will be as it destroys human incentive and behavior

Always blame someone else for your own failures and see how far that gets you in life. There is only one Barack Obama and that individual was soundly rejected in November

 

[Conservative]

Trump hasn't done anything yet but ride Obama's long coattails.

You are exactly right, he is running on that coattail right into the WH

 

[Conservative]

No, this is my idea of good Democratic leadership.

And for all your bluster about cities, most Americans live in or around cities and more and more of them are moving to cities because that's where the opportunity is (I live in Atlanta and we are expected to get 1-2 million more people in the next 10 years). Also, I find it hilarious that you lament the decay of some cities while at the same time opposing any social programs that will improve them. It almost seems like you want to perpetuate a problem so you can complain about it. Like welfare. You complain about people on welfare, yet oppose raising the minimum wage which would lower the amount of welfare spent. Pretty much all Conservative arguments are circular like that.




What policies? And didn't Republicans lie about Medicare in 2010 in order to win elections?




Says the guy who blames the Bush Mortgage Bubble on Clinton and the Iraq War on Democrats. When are those tax cuts gonna pay for themselves? When's the trickle-down gonna start?

Let me know how President elect Hillary is doing these days?

 

[Incisor]

Already showed you where 6 million of those votes came

Where? Did you? I wasn't paying attention. Don't tell me you believe illegal voters cast 6 million ballots? That's as crazy as the folks who say controlled explosions brought down the WTC on 9/11.

Democrats lost the Congress and the WH which is going to make it a long four years for you.

No, Democrats got more votes in the aggregate in the House and Senate, yet Republicans retained control because of gerrymandering and nothing more.

Change meaning questioning costs and actually bringing jobs back to this country

The only way jobs are being "brought back" is if American workers accept the same wages and working conditions that Third World workers get. And that ain't happening. And questioning costs? From what I've read, Trump lags behind the developments as they come out. If Brownback's plan didn't work in Kansas, why would it work nationally?

Obama never did

Obama created over 12,000,000 jobs in 8 years. Bush lost 460,000 jobs in 8 years.

 

[Conservative]

No, this is my idea of good Democratic leadership.

And for all your bluster about cities, most Americans live in or around cities and more and more of them are moving to cities because that's where the opportunity is (I live in Atlanta and we are expected to get 1-2 million more people in the next 10 years). Also, I find it hilarious that you lament the decay of some cities while at the same time opposing any social programs that will improve them. It almost seems like you want to perpetuate a problem so you can complain about it. Like welfare. You complain about people on welfare, yet oppose raising the minimum wage which would lower the amount of welfare spent. Pretty much all Conservative arguments are circular like that.




What policies? And didn't Republicans lie about Medicare in 2010 in order to win elections?




Says the guy who blames the Bush Mortgage Bubble on Clinton and the Iraq War on Democrats. When are those tax cuts gonna pay for themselves? When's the trickle-down gonna start?

The True Obama legacy and what those popular votes did to the Democratic Party

Obama’s legacy is a devastated Democratic Party | New York Post

 

[Conservative]

Where? Did you? I wasn't paying attention. Don't tell me you believe illegal voters cast 6 million ballots? That's as crazy as the folks who say controlled explosions brought down the WTC on 9/11.




No, Democrats got more votes in the aggregate in the House and Senate, yet Republicans retained control because of gerrymandering and nothing more.




The only way jobs are being "brought back" is if American workers accept the same wages and working conditions that Third World workers get. And that ain't happening. And questioning costs? From what I've read, Trump lags behind the developments as they come out. If Brownback's plan didn't work in Kansas, why would it work nationally?




Obama created over 12,000,000 jobs in 8 years. Bush lost 460,000 jobs in 8 years.

That Obama record is probably why the Democrats regained the Congress and held on to the WH as people always vote their pocketbooks. Yep the true Obama legacy that you can be proud of

Obama’s legacy is a devastated Democratic Party | New York Post

By the way it really is a shame how the aggregate doesn't elect individual Congressional, state, and local officials. Maybe we should allow the citizens of LA, Chicago and NYC do it for us

 

[Incisor]

NO, sorry there wasn't a surplus

Then why did Bush say in his SOTU speech in 2001: "surpluses mean we're overtaxed"?

Here's an article from the Heritage Foundation, the same Heritage Foundation that is currently stocking Trump's Administration, circa 1998, complaining about budget surpluses that you say didn't happen. LOL! The title of the piece is literally called "Return the Revenue Surplus to the Taxpayers".

Ouch.

 

[Conservative]

Then why did Bush say in his SOTU speech in 2001: "surpluses mean we're overtaxed"?

Here's an article from the Heritage Foundation, the same Heritage Foundation that is currently stocking Trump's Administration, circa 1998, complaining about budget surpluses that you say didn't happen. LOL! The title of the piece is literally called "Return the Revenue Surplus to the Taxpayers".

Ouch.

Treasury data is there for all to see, why does it matter what Bush said? Do you have a problem keeping more of what you earn if you earn anything?

Ouch is right, the true Obama legacy

Obama’s legacy is a devastated Democratic Party | New York Post

 

[Incisor]

You are exactly right, he is running on that coattail right into the WH

Yeah, so when he puts his policies in place, and they inevitably fail because they've failed every other time we've tried them the last 35 years, I don't expect you to accept any responsibility for it, just like how you shirk responsibility today for Bush.

Being Conservative just means you get to change your position whenever you look bad. Flip-flopper!!!

 

[Incisor]

The True Obama legacy and what those popular votes did to the Democratic Party

Well, Trump is your guy now...and he's now the standard bearer for all your ideas and policies. Good luck to you. It didn't work out so well in Kansas or when Bush was President, so there's little reason to expect it to work this time.

 

[Incisor]

By the way it really is a shame how the aggregate doesn't elect individual Congressional, state, and local officials. Maybe we should allow the citizens of LA, Chicago and NYC do it for us

Yes, an 18-century technicality is why you get the Presidency even though you lost by 3,000,000 votes and were out-voted in the aggregate. How does that translate into a mandate?

 

[Conservative]

Yeah, so when he puts his policies in place, and they inevitably fail because they've failed every other time we've tried them the last 35 years, I don't expect you to accept any responsibility for it, just like how you shirk responsibility today for Bush.

Being Conservative just means you get to change your position whenever you look bad. Flip-flopper!!!

You have the same credibility as the rest of the liberals and pollsters so don't think I will pay a lot of attention to what you predict

 

[Incisor]

Treasury data is there for all to see, why does it matter what Bush said?

It is there. And I linked to it here. You haven't linked to anything, let alone Treasury numbers. I use the Tax Policy Institute because it's a right-wing "think" tank.

If it wasn't there, then why was Heritage arguing to get rid of it as early as 1998?

 

[Conservative]

Well, Trump is your guy now...and he's now the standard bearer for all your ideas and policies. Good luck to you. It didn't work out so well in Kansas or when Bush was President, so there's little reason to expect it to work this time.

Yep, I voted for someone to implement change and am seeing exactly that. anyone that pisses you off as much as he does makes me happy

 

[Incisor]

Do you have a problem keeping more of what you earn if you earn anything?

I have a problem with people who say that doing so will somehow magically translate into growth when it never has, ever.

So you are abandoning the argument that tax cuts are good economics?

 

[Incisor]

You have the same credibility as the rest of the liberals and pollsters so don't think I will pay a lot of attention to what you predict

I would love nothing more than to be wrong. I would gladly vote Trump if his policies work. But we know they won't because they've already been tried.

 

[Conservative]

It is there. And I linked to it here. You haven't linked to anything, let alone Treasury numbers. I use the Tax Policy Institute because it's a right-wing "think" tank.

If it wasn't there, then why was Heritage arguing to get rid of it as early as 1998?

Let me know when the tax policy center takes over as the bank account of the country and then I will believe what they post. until then I will be Treasury data as that is what we pay debt service on. What you don't understand and won't do is go to the Treasury site to see where the deficit comes from as you focus on public debt and ignore total debt. the taxpayers which you will become, maybe someday, pays debt service on total debt, not public debt