Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

[Gimmesometruth]

So you don't care where the money is spent just so money is spent? How liberal of you!! I'll bet you have never looked at a budget let alone the federal budget. Why don't you ask yourself why we need a 4.2 TRILLION dollar budget and 50 independent state budgets much of which is duplicated at the federal level? Seems that doesn't matter to you because all you care about is spending. The govt. doesn't need to deficit spend to affect demand. Allowing people to keep more of what they earn does that quite well as well. Reagan proved that.

The main spending by the federal govt, SS/Medicaid/Medicare...and...."defense".....is duplicated at the state level?

Interesting, I guess I keep overlooking those double-dipping seniors and the aircraft carriers the state of Arizona has docked in Lake Mead...on the Arizona side of course, across from the USS Nevada.

edit: Note: this is a model of the USS Nevada, built in Hollywood, and shown as an example of duplicated state military spending.

That is all.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I never stated that every increase in money supply results in instant inflation. In fact in an earlier post I stated


In the long run, expanding the money supply IS always inflationary.

Yer backtracking, you posted an anonymous plot of house prices and money supply as proof of yer argument. What makes it worse, is that most of the increases from QE's is not entering into the economy....so yer on a double phail....but go on.

 

[Gaea]

Yer backtracking, you posted an anonymous plot of house prices and money supply as proof of yer argument. What makes it worse, is that most of the increases from QE's is not entering into the economy....so yer on a double phail....but go on.

I'm backtracking by quoting myself?

You really have no idea what you're talking about. You give liberals a bad name.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I'm backtracking by quoting myself?

No Dear, yer backtracking because you want to argue you were not making an absolute argument, whereas I did not say you were.....I just pointed out yer example is so wrong in so many ways.

You really have no idea what you're talking about. You give liberals a bad name.

By any and all means....prove yer point.

I'll wait....until you give whoever a good name.

 

[Conservative]

Gimmesometruth;1066231146]If it reduced the deficit, because it was paid back, from previous govt spending, that did create a deficit.....then it was deficit spending....hurr durr. That's a mystery to you still.....even though you say it was paid back....AND IT REDUCED THE DEFICIT...ACCORDING TO YOU

.

It wasn't an appropriated amount, 450 billion was allocated and over 500 billion repaid. The deficit was part of what Obama inherited but the payback never went to reduce the overall deficit. Wow, does your lack of information ever stop?

Good gawd man, you answer your own riddles....yet you demand an answer for them still!

I did answer the question, it was part of the deficit you want to blame on Bush but when the money was repaid only the interest was credited and the money was recycled as Obama knew people like you would blame Bush. Geithner recycled the money and that is easy to find

As has been shown to you over and over, long after you have forgotten them, and even now when refreshed.....it more than paid for itself.....and....was "short term". This self defeating arguments are such a waste of everyones time.LOL...yeah...he caused debt with a tax cut....that had to be fully reversed.....and then went into massive debt (doubling the debt!)...and you the defense spending was not stimulus....and did not cause debt (it was revenue spending!).

Shown by whom? The people disagree as they didn't feel it. it created something called saved jobs that no one captures. Do you ever get tired of looking and sounding foolish?

 

[Conservative]

The main spending by the federal govt, SS/Medicaid/Medicare...and...."defense".....is duplicated at the state level?

Interesting, I guess I keep overlooking those double-dipping seniors and the aircraft carriers the state of Arizona has docked in Lake Mead...on the Arizona side of course, across from the USS Nevada.

edit: Note: this is a model of the USS Nevada, built in Hollywood, and shown as an example of duplicated state military spending.

That is all.

You keep baiting, don't you. You know damn well that I said take SS and Medicare off budget and that defense IS the responsibility of the federal govt. You have never looked at the budget have you nor do you care? Because the left tells you they want and need the money that is good enough for you. No wonder this country is in a mess with the economic geniuses on the left and their arguments.

 

[ludin]

Funny, housing prices COLLAPSED then and afterward....even with an increase in money supply, so I guess yer correlation of "money supply causes house price inflation" collapses too.

If you are talking about QE then none of that money entered into the system.
If you are talking about the stimulus the money was borrowed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/business/economy/23dollar.html?_r=0

yes it did cause the value of the dollar to fall which in turn makes prices increase.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

You keep baiting, don't you. You know damn well that I said take SS and Medicare off budget

That is a lie in the context of:

Why don't you ask yourself why we need a 4.2 TRILLION dollar budget and 50 independent state budgets much of which is duplicated at the federal level?

...unless yer argument is that SS/MC/MC is not part of the $4T budget.

and that defense IS the responsibility of the federal govt.

But it is NOT duplicated at the state level, it is a stupid thing to say.....but then you say LOTS of stupid things.

You have never looked at the budget have you nor do you care?

is that question....or a declaration? Either way....it is stupid.

Because the left tells you they want and need the money that is good enough for you.

Sneaky left, lying to me about ALL OF THE DUPLICATION!!!!!


oh wait..

No wonder this country is in a mess with the economic geniuses on the left and their arguments.

Yeah...what we need....is...um....more Voodoo/Trickle Down!

 

[mmi]

your link pretty much confirmed what I linked to.

I didn't say that it contradicted it, but rather that it was more complete. Still nothing about controlling for factors other than income.

>>a nice diversion from you.

Pfft. Diversion my ass. Get the NORC study if you want to use the results, not a slanted perspective from some RW lunatic.

>>the poor spend money on television, on smoking and on alcohol.

You mean watch more television. And again, where's the study? Where are the controls for other variables?

Poverty is related to poor education. I figure that goes a long way to explaining higher rates of smoking. I'll agree that the money is wasted and that's a problem when ya don't have much. Fwiw, the data you put up on smoking ended in 1993, but I'm guessing low-income types are still more likely to consume nicotine and other deadly poisons. And they're perhaps more likely to abuse alcohol.

My view is that scolding them to take better care of their health won't be as successful as efforts to improve their educational and employment opportunities. Are GOP governors denying them access to health insurance and thus healthcare that might ameliorate some of this?

>>that's just three easy examples of how they can save.

Two. Watching TV doesn't cost money, it just takes you away from more profitable activities, right? Unless yer watching Shark Tank.

>>So at the end of the day.. Moderate Right.. as a point.

He wants to rag on people living in poverty. He demands that they be noble, upright, self-disciplined go-getters. Otoh, I figure they're like everybody else when it comes to admirable behaviour. Some get it done and some don't. Many are in the middle. I'd say I'm one of those myself.

What do you mean, "my side"?

I missed that post. Yer not as easily "classified" as many here. John didn't mean anything negative. This battle has become a sort of grudge match in some ways. I welcome yer input if only as a fresh voice that will offer reasoned arguments. Don't take the angry sniping in this section too seriously. It's foolish, but it doesn't mean anything.

I'll bet you have never looked at a budget let alone the federal budget.

Did ya build yer successful business career on moronic judgements like that?

what could possibly stimulate demand like the supply of great new invention say a cure for cancer or an autonomous auto?

Plows?

Geithner recycled the money and that is easy to find

You've repeated this lie many times. You never even try to back it up. You can't. This is why you Ignore or at least pretend to Ignore my posts.

>>something called saved jobs that no one captures

Just more of the tired BS you keep repeating. Jobs are jobs, and we've added fifteen million full-time, private-sector jobs since Dec 2009.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/business/economy/23dollar.html?_r=0

Another reading assignment from a RW moron with no excerpted material.

Btw, if anyone else has a problem with the subscribe pop-up on that page, just reload and quickly stop. Should do it.

 

[Conservative]

That is a lie in the context of:

Why don't you ask yourself why we need a 4.2 TRILLION dollar budget and 50 independent state budgets much of which is duplicated at the federal level?

...unless yer argument is that SS/MC/MC is not part of the $4T budget.




But it is NOT duplicated at the state level, it is a stupid thing to say.....but then you say LOTS of stupid things.is that question....or a declaration? Either way....it is stupid. Sneaky left, lying to me about ALL OF THE DUPLICATION!!!!!


oh wait..


Yeah...what we need....is...um....more Voodoo/Trickle Down!

Do you know what much of which means? You obviously have never looked at the federal budget but like with everything else you are an expert, a liberal expert at that which isn't really much of an expert at all.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

If you are talking about QE then none of that money entered into the system.
If you are talking about the stimulus the money was borrowed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/business/economy/23dollar.html?_r=0

yes it did cause the value of the dollar to fall which in turn makes prices increase.

Um...er.....I just pointed out the QE argument failure to "Jenna", or whatever TF teh "liberal" is calling itself......and ...yer confusing exchange rates with domestic inflation. Yer showing twice over you have no grasp of what is argued and who argued it.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Do you know what much of which means?

You obviously have never looked at the federal budget but like with everything else you are an expert, a liberal expert at that which isn't really much of an expert at all.

How long have we been debating here? YEARS.....and mostly on the budget....and yet here you are not only arguing I have no understanding of the budget, but that in fact a WHOLE BUNCH OF FEDERAL SPENDING IS DUPLICATED AT THE STATE LEVEL!!!!

Why in the hell do you keep doing this? Don't you have any other pursuit where you can spend the remaining years you have doing something constructive instead of making yourself look so horrible?

 

[mmi]

"Jenna", or whatever TF teh "liberal" is calling itself

OK, GST. Try to calm down a bit or I may need to send you to the showers to cool off. I say let's give Gaea a chance to participate in this rather nasty environment before we start attacking him with a lot of vitriol. Just some friendly advice. Don't make me sit you down.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

OK, GST. Try to calm down a bit or I may need to send you to the showers to cool off. I say let's give Gaea a chance to participate in this rather nasty environment before we start attacking him with a lot of vitriol. Just some friendly advice. Don't make me sit you down.

Do what you want, but when a male "mother of everything" jumps in here, calling itself "slightly liberal", and proceeds to pull out all sorts of econ arguments conservatives use, well, I have no patience.

 

[Gaea]

No Dear, yer backtracking because you want to argue you were not making an absolute argument, whereas I did not say you were.....I just pointed out yer example is so wrong in so many ways.

You pointed out that the housing market collapsed while the money supply grew. That's a short-run phenomenon. It has no relevance unless you believe my argument was absolute.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

You pointed out that the housing market collapsed while the money supply grew. That's a short-run phenomenon. It has no relevance unless you believe my argument was absolute.

I said "HOUSING PRICES COLLAPSED" while M increased, rendering yer correlation pointless.....AND AGAIN FOR THE HARD OF READING, the great vast majority of increases in M since 2009 has not entered into the economy.......yer correlation is dead, so drop it. Find another.

 

[Conservative]

How long have we been debating here? YEARS.....and mostly on the budget....and yet here you are not only arguing I have no understanding of the budget, but that in fact a WHOLE BUNCH OF FEDERAL SPENDING IS DUPLICATED AT THE STATE LEVEL!!!!

Why in the hell do you keep doing this? Don't you have any other pursuit where you can spend the remaining years you have doing something constructive instead of making yourself look so horrible?

Yes, a whole bunch of spending is duplicated at the state level but since you have never looked at the budget you wouldn't know that as you continue to buy what the left tells you. This thread is about deficit spending and yet not one time have you addressed the actual spending to see if there are areas to cut so we don't need deficit spending. that says a lot about you.

When someone like you tells me I look or sound horrible I consider the source and realize I am kicking your ass. Have a good one

 

[James972]

all I see are Greece and the economic disasters of Europe that you want this country to become.

Greece?? Let's not forget that Bernie honeymooned in the USSR, not Greece!! The liberals spied for Stalin and gave him the bomb when he was starving 60 million to death. Whoops!!

 

[mmi]

when [someone] calling itself "slightly liberal" … proceeds to pull out all sorts of econ arguments conservatives use, well, I have no patience.

I tend to be rather impatient myself, but I see it as a shortcoming. You know what they say about patience. Here's another thought along those lines:

Genius is nothing else than a great aptitude for patience.​

 

[Gaea]

I said "HOUSING PRICES COLLAPSED" while M increased, rendering yer correlation pointless.....AND AGAIN FOR THE HARD OF READING, the great vast majority of increases in M since 2009 has not entered into the economy.......yer correlation is dead, so drop it. Find another.

Please, find me an example of a real world phenomenon in which every single point fits on a trendline.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Yes, a whole bunch of spending is duplicated at the state level but since you have never looked at the budget you wouldn't know that as you continue to buy what the left tells you. This thread is about deficit spending and yet not one time have you addressed the actual spending to see if there are areas to cut so we don't need deficit spending. that says a lot about you.

When someone like you tells me I look or sound horrible I consider the source and realize I am kicking your ass. Have a good one

Only in yer dreams, con.

I'll remind you again of the failure in your states-rights budget argument. I don't have to go back to conservative Southerners denying equal school funding since the end of the Civil War, I just have to go back to 2009 when the AZ legislature ended enrollment for CHIP....to show the fallacy of just leaving some* spending to the states. The states are often poor arbiters of best public policy. Further, yer "duplication" is a total misnomer, but it would be pointless to describe to you how that is, I'll just allow you to keep hanging yerself with it.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I tend to be rather impatient myself, but I see it as a shortcoming. You know what they say about patience. Here's another thought along those lines:

Genius is nothing else than a great aptitude for patience.​

I'm not a genius, I don't have the fortitude or exceptionalism to become a creative expert in any one endeavor, I'm easily distracted.

I hate contradictory presentation, I hate when folks put on a mask, act the opposite of what they claim, and that is clearly happening with the one in question.

 

[mmi]

I don't have the fortitude or exceptionalism to become an expert in any one endeavor

I'd say that's not required. And you may be underestimating yerself. Or perhaps letting yerself off the hook. Aspire to greatness. Might as well, right?

>>a mask, act the opposite of what they claim, and that is clearly happening with the one in question.

It's not clear t' me. One of my strengths is cautious judgements. Where's the cost here? You can always holler at him later on.

 

[Gaea]

I'm not a genius, I don't have the fortitude or exceptionalism to become a creative expert in any one endeavor, I'm easily distracted.

I hate contradictory presentation, I hate when folks put on a mask, act the opposite of what they claim, and that is clearly happening with the one in question.

There's nothing "conservative" about accepting the fact that printing money causes inflation.

"conservative" means holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation. (according to google)

My opinion, as I first stated in this thread, is:

Personally, I think it would be a great idea to balance our budget when possible. The most sensible way to accomplish that would be to return federal income tax rates back to what they were back when Reagan first became president.

 

[Conservative]

Only in yer dreams, con.

I'll remind you again of the failure in your states-rights budget argument. I don't have to go back to conservative Southerners denying equal school funding since the end of the Civil War, I just have to go back to 2009 when the AZ legislature ended enrollment for CHIP....to show the fallacy of just leaving some* spending to the states. The states are often poor arbiters of best public policy. Further, yer "duplication" is a total misnomer, but it would be pointless to describe to you how that is, I'll just allow you to keep hanging yerself with it.

Look, you don't have a clue, go to the Federal budget of the United States, check the line items and see how many of those are duplicated at the state level. One of these days you are going to realize what a fool the left has made of you. I really suggest a one way ticket to Greece because the people of Arizona get it, you don't