Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

[JohnfrmClevelan]

i'm saying only the wise should vote... Have a high logic test and if they pass they can vote.... But science tells us who has the high logic to be able to vote.... The sat math test scores at the highest levels also show who can pass to vote

take this idiocy to a different thread.

 

[SailaWay]

take this idiocy to a different thread.

truth hurts some people the mass deficits shows also how the current status quo is destroying the long term progress of a nation.... debts do just that... and that helps run off the wise young who would have to suffer because of the massive debt having the unwise as voters helps fool the voters

 

[Moderate Right]

truth hurts some people the mass deficits shows also how the current status quo is destroying the long term progress of a nation.... debts do just that... and that helps run off the wise young who would have to suffer because of the massive debt having the unwise as voters helps fool the voters

As John said, this thread is about "Explaining why federal deficits are needed". If you want to start a thread about requiring IQ standards in order to vote then you should start a thread with that title. I highly recommend posting a poll in the poll forum. The results would show you just how crazy that idea is. I'm willing to bet you won't do it because you would be afraid of the results. Care to prove me wrong?

 

[SailaWay]

As John said, this thread is about "Explaining why federal deficits are needed". If you want to start a thread about requiring IQ standards in order to vote then you should start a thread with that title. I highly recommend posting a poll in the poll forum. The results would show you just how crazy that idea is. I'm willing to bet you won't do it because you would be afraid of the results. Care to prove me wrong?

and i;m explaining why they are bad and who is pushing and why they are pushing it... the main pushers are the media because they cannot fool the wise as much as the unwise so they help them bring deficits so that the unwise will have money to be taken by the corrupt media.. again stay on topic.... the mass debt is caused by the MEDIA

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

and i;m explaining why they are bad and who is pushing and why they are pushing it... the main pushers are the media because they cannot fool the wise as much as the unwise so they help them bring deficits so that the unwise will have money to be taken by the corrupt media.. again stay on topic.... the mass debt is caused by the MEDIA

Let me guess - you scored OK on the SATs, but you can't find a job, and now you are looking for somebody to blame.

 

[Conservative]

Let me guess - you scored OK on the SATs, but you can't find a job, and now you are looking for somebody to blame.

says the guy who has no problem with deficit spending, has no clue that it takes money from the taxpayers to fund thus out of the local economy, and causes the govt. to print money which hurts the value of the dollar thus hurting those on fixed income.

 

[SailaWay]

Let me guess - you scored OK on the SATs, but you can't find a job, and now you are looking for somebody to blame.

not even close.... this issue with the media is easy to understand and the very worst thing for a nation

a crooked media causes so much harm in so many ways

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

not even close.... this issue with the media is easy to understand and the very worst thing for a nation

a crooked media causes so much harm in so many ways

Then start a thread on that subject SOMEWHERE ELSE. It has no business here.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

says the guy who has no problem with deficit spending, has no clue that it takes money from the taxpayers to fund thus out of the local economy, and causes the govt. to print money which hurts the value of the dollar thus hurting those on fixed income.

Says the guy who doesn't understand deficits or government finance.

Why don't you show me a relationship between government-created money and inflation before you go spouting off about it.

 

[SailaWay]

not even close....
a crooked media causes so much harm in so many ways

the media causes the massive debt harm along with many other harms

 

[Conservative]

Says the guy who doesn't understand deficits or government finance.

Why don't you show me a relationship between government-created money and inflation before you go spouting off about it.

So where does the 250 billion dollars that goes to debt service come from and go? Do you understand what creates the value of the money not just that the govt. creates it? Where the hell did you go to school?

 

[Moderate Right]

the media causes the massive debt harm along with many other harms

We were trying to have an intelligent discussion on the thread topic until you came along. Did you ever hear the expression, be careful what you wish for? If we were to set an IQ requirement for voting then you might not be able to vote. I figured you were too scared to post a poll on the subject.

 

[SailaWay]

Then start a thread on that subject SOMEWHERE ELSE. It has no business here.

this is about federal deficits... can't YOU READ.... it is the media causing these harmful debts in order to feed their money issue from the unwise .. the unwise gets that money and then the media drugs them out and takes the money

now lets stay on TOPIC.. this is the federal debt and how it is harmful or not and where it comes from

now stay on topic

 

[SailaWay]

We were trying to have an intelligent discussion on the thread topic until you came along. Did you ever hear the expression, be careful what you wish for? If we were to set an IQ requirement for voting then you might not be able to vote. I figured you were too scared to post a poll on the subject.

can you not stay on topic// this is about the massive federal debt the causes and the harms

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

So where does the 250 billion dollars that goes to debt service come from and go? Do you understand what creates the value of the money not just that the govt. creates it? Where the hell did you go to school?

It comes from deficit spending. Treasury issues bonds, they get exchanged for dollars, and the government spends those dollars. It's a straight addition of financial assets from the government to the private sector. Where is the cost to the government?

Really, conservative, do you have any arguments of substance? All you can do is attack me and question my education. I have been posting here for two years now, with links, with data, and with good reasoning. In my whole time here, I haven't seen you post anything but your own opinions. And those don't count for crap with me, or anybody else.

 

[Conservative]

It comes from deficit spending. Treasury issues bonds, they get exchanged for dollars, and the government spends those dollars. It's a straight addition of financial assets from the government to the private sector. Where is the cost to the government?

Really, conservative, do you have any arguments of substance? All you can do is attack me and question my education. I have been posting here for two years now, with links, with data, and with good reasoning. In my whole time here, I haven't seen you post anything but your own opinions. And those don't count for crap with me, or anybody else.

Wow, and I want the people who bother to read your posts to understand this is liberalism and a typical Hillary supporter who has no problem with deficit spending thus no understanding of how it is paid for or where that money goes. Yes, it does to bonds, those who have invested in those bonds many of whom are in foreign countries. Those bonds are indeed exchanged for cash which comes from where????

Have you ever looked at a budget or do you even know what deficit spending is? Deficit spending is spending more than revenue coming in. It has to be financed or printed. You are right, I don't know you but I do know an ignorant statement when I see it and you are filled with them.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Wow, and I want the people who bother to read your posts to understand this is liberalism...

Again, you have nothing but partisan blather. No economic argument.

...and a typical Hillary supporter...

And you couldn't be more wrong! Is there no limit to your ignorance?

who has no problem with deficit spending thus no understanding of how it is paid for or where that money goes.

Everything you know about deficit spending, you are learning right here, from me. You haven't been able to answer any of my questions so far, and I don't think you will be able to in the future. You are clueless.

Yes, it does to bonds, those who have invested in those bonds many of whom are in foreign countries. Those bonds are indeed exchanged for cash which comes from where????

So you don't know where dollars come from? Do I have to teach that lesson as well?

Have you ever looked at a budget or do you even know what deficit spending is? Deficit spending is spending more than revenue coming in. It has to be financed or printed. You are right, I don't know you but I do know an ignorant statement when I see it and you are filled with them.

Why, after 200+ years of running deficits and racking up debt, do we have the world's strongest economy? You are wetting your pants and the mere mention of debt, and you don't even understand how it all works.

Go back and read the thread. I'm tired of trying to bring you up to speed.

 

[Conservative]

Again, you have nothing but partisan blather. No economic argument.



And you couldn't be more wrong! Is there no limit to your ignorance?



Everything you know about deficit spending, you are learning right here, from me. You haven't been able to answer any of my questions so far, and I don't think you will be able to in the future. You are clueless.



So you don't know where dollars come from? Do I have to teach that lesson as well?



Why, after 200+ years of running deficits and racking up debt, do we have the world's strongest economy? You are wetting your pants and the mere mention of debt, and you don't even understand how it all works.

Go back and read the thread. I'm tired of trying to bring you up to speed.

Please don't use terms like economic argument because you have no idea about the economy or even finances and value of money. Please tell me your definition of deficit spending and how that spending is funded. We have the worlds strongest economy because it is private sector that promotes individual initiative and wealth creation, not the liberal govt. meddling.

Here is the budget of the United States, look at it for the first time, and then ask yourself how the items in that budget are funded and where the money comes from when there isn't enough?

US Federal Budget Spending Estimate vs. Actual for FY2015 - Charts

 

[Absentglare]

Please don't use terms like economic argument because you have no idea about the economy or even finances and value of money. Please tell me your definition of deficit spending and how that spending is funded. We have the worlds strongest economy because it is private sector that promotes individual initiative and wealth creation, not the liberal govt. meddling.

Here is the budget of the United States, look at it for the first time, and then ask yourself how the items in that budget are funded and where the money comes from when there isn't enough?

US Federal Budget Spending Estimate vs. Actual for FY2015 - Charts

So you admit that you have no idea where excess expenditures come from ?

Deficit spending is new income that does not come out of the domestic private sector.

 

[Conservative]

So you admit that you have no idea where excess expenditures come from ?

Deficit spending is new income that does not come out of the domestic private sector.

Sure I do, the money is borrowed through the issuance of bonds and that means it has to be repaid, it is part of the deficit which goes against the debt which is funded by debt service. Now answer the damn question where does the money come from to fund the debt service????

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Sure I do, the money is borrowed through the issuance of bonds and that means it has to be repaid, it is part of the deficit which goes against the debt which is funded by debt service. Now answer the damn question where does the money come from to fund the debt service????

If you were able to follow the procedure from start to finish, you would understand that deficit spending results in a net addition of financial assets to the private sector.

The initial exchange, bonds for dollars, is a wash. Then, the government spends those dollars back into the economy; that's a net addition.

Sovereign debt is seldom "repaid." It is rolled over. When is the last time our national debt has decreased? Bondholders are happy to hold bonds; that's why they bought them in the first place. Those dollars weren't going to be spent, and they weren't going to be invested in the real economy; the safe way to park one's dollars is to buy bonds.

Now answer the damned questions that I asked you -

Where is the real cost to the government?

Do you agree that government spending adds to GDP?

If government spending adds to GDP, does it outweigh any negatives of deficit spending?

If there are negatives to deficit spending, what are they, and why do you think they are negatives?


If you can't articulate your position, if you can't even explain why you believe what you believe, then you have no business taking a side in this debate.

 

[Conservative]

If you were able to follow the procedure from start to finish, you would understand that deficit spending results in a net addition of financial assets to the private sector.

The initial exchange, bonds for dollars, is a wash. Then, the government spends those dollars back into the economy; that's a net addition.

Sovereign debt is seldom "repaid." It is rolled over. When is the last time our national debt has decreased? Bondholders are happy to hold bonds; that's why they bought them in the first place. Those dollars weren't going to be spent, and they weren't going to be invested in the real economy; the safe way to park one's dollars is to buy bonds.

Now answer the damned questions that I asked you -

Where is the real cost to the government?

Do you agree that government spending adds to GDP?

If government spending adds to GDP, does it outweigh any negatives of deficit spending?

If there are negatives to deficit spending, what are they, and why do you think they are negatives?


If you can't articulate your position, if you can't even explain why you believe what you believe, then you have no business taking a side in this debate.

Here are the Obama deficits, tell me how they added to the net addition of financial assets? Your assumption is that there was a return on that so called investment and that it was a net addition. You definitely have a socialist mentality and no understanding of the private sector, the value of money, and what deficit spending that Obama has done generated

Debt Debt
Fiscal Yr Oct. 1 Sept. 30 Deficit
2009 10.1 11.9 1.8
2010 11.9 13.6 1.7
2011 13.6 14.8 1.2
2012 14.8 16.1 1.3
2913 16.1 16.7 0.6
2014 16.7 17.8 1.1
2015 17.8 18.2 0.4
16-Jul
2016 18.2 19.4 1.2


You do not seem to understand that it isn't the government's role to add to its own asset base, that is the role of the private investor. Govt. spending doesn't increase net worth, it increases debt

 

[Conservative]

Wrong questions

Where is the real cost to the government? There is no cost to the govt. but there is a cost to the taxpayers who pay the debt service.

Do you agree that government spending adds to GDP? Govt. spending is a component of GDP and is offset by the value of the debt that generates. There is only benefit to the economy if it is spent in the private sector which Reagan did and only short term never long term

If government spending adds to GDP, does it outweigh any negatives of deficit spending? because of debt service funded by the taxpayers either in higher taxes or lower purchasing power.

If there are negatives to deficit spending, what are they, and why do you think they are negatives? Already explained to you, higher taxes, lower value of the dollar, less economic activity in the private sector as the consumers have less money to spend, invest, pay down debt.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Wrong questions

Where is the real cost to the government? There is no cost to the govt.

You're off to a good start...

...but there is a cost to the taxpayers who pay the debt service.

So much for your good start.

As long as the deficit is larger than the debt service, this is false. Besides, most of the debt service accrues to American people and businesses.

Do you agree that government spending adds to GDP? Govt. spending is a component of GDP and is offset by the value of the debt that generates.

Prove this. You are talking out of your backside.

...There is only benefit to the economy if it is spent in the private sector which Reagan did and only short term never long term

a) Government spending overwhelmingly goes to our domestic private sector.

b) Prove that the benefit is only short term. Again, you are talking out of your backside.

If government spending adds to GDP, does it outweigh any negatives of deficit spending? because of debt service funded by the taxpayers either in higher taxes or lower purchasing power.

Our taxes aren't based on the size of our national debt, and our inflation is very low. Next.

If there are negatives to deficit spending, what are they, and why do you think they are negatives? Already explained to you,

higher taxes,

False.

lower value of the dollar,

False. Low inflation.

less economic activity in the private sector as the consumers have less money to spend, invest, pay down debt.

You still don't understand the definition of deficit spending, do you? Deficit spending is money spent OVER AND ABOVE the taxes collected. That means MORE money flowing to the private sector, not less. So by definition, there is more economic activity than if there were no deficit spending.

When the government runs a surplus, that means they remove more money from the private sector via taxation than they spend back into it. Government surplus = private sector deficit. Government deficit = private sector surplus.

 

[Conservative]

You're off to a good start...



So much for your good start.

As long as the deficit is larger than the debt service, this is false. Besides, most of the debt service accrues to American people and businesses.



Prove this. You are talking out of your backside.



a) Government spending overwhelmingly goes to our domestic private sector.

b) Prove that the benefit is only short term. Again, you are talking out of your backside.



Our taxes aren't based on the size of our national debt, and our inflation is very low. Next.



False.



False. Low inflation.



You still don't understand the definition of deficit spending, do you? Deficit spending is money spent OVER AND ABOVE the taxes collected. That means MORE money flowing to the private sector, not less. So by definition, there is more economic activity than if there were no deficit spending.

When the government runs a surplus, that means they remove more money from the private sector via taxation than they spend back into it. Government surplus = private sector deficit. Government deficit = private sector surplus.

Look, you don't get it and probably never will. You claimed this is the greatest economy in the world which is true and it is an economy that is based about 20% on govt. spending among the lowest in the world. it is an economy that benefits from the private sector and individual wealth creation, not govt. increasing spending and value.

Yes, deficit spending is money spent over and above the taxation, exactly, it has to be paid for, you have no concept or understanding of that reality. When the govt. runs a surplus it should go back to the people who helped create it. The time for deficit spending is during a recession and that should be to prime the private sector pump not create more entitlement, dependence, or bail out non Federal Responsibility issues. Reagan did it right, his stimulus was all tax cuts and the revenue generated was spent in the private sector. Obama's stimulus was targeted tax cuts and spending for shovel ready jobs. Targeted tax cuts like cash for clunkers etc was a failure because the people only got a tax cut if they spent money, money they didn't have. Shovel ready jobs took employment fro 142 million(BLS) in January 2009 to 139 million in January 2011, that is a failure of stimulus spending

Until you understand that debt caused by deficits has to be funded, this discussion is a waste of time and when you fund the debt service today that is 250 billion that would be better spent elsewhere in the private sector or given back to the consumers but that couldn't be done because it had to be funded. Please take a finance course and stop making a fool of yourself.

You obviously are a Keynesian liberal supporting govt. spending but ignoring the length of that spending or where the money goes. To you it doesn't matter, to the economy it does.