Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

[jaeger19]

Most "workers" get their health insurance through their employers and most of them don't pay premiums as high as 6.2% of their income. After that, there is a lot that medicare does not cover and that is why most people buy supplemental insurance on top of medicare.

wow.. isn't amazing just how clueless people can be.. and yet be so adamant that they know it all?

You'd think after being shown time and time again that they are wrong on so many things in healthcare.. that they would sit back and say "gee I might want to research this a bit"... but no. :shock:

 

[mmi]

Without marketing … HOW would physicians … know about new treatments

Medical journals and conferences? And how does Big Phrama "market" to physicians? With a professional newsletter? No, by bribing them into pushing their products.

I told you that it was in the red.. and you told me that it wasn't. I explained that medicare pays out more than it collects and you told me I was wrong. ANOTHER long list of things that you were wrong about.

I figure it should be added to yer very long list. He said the trust fund has money in it, not that it's paying out less than it's taking in.

And if you look at all the money involved, it looks to me like it was close to being "in the black" last year.

Total expenditures in 2015 were $647.6 billion, and total income was $644.4 billion, which consisted of $633.9 billion in non-interest income and $10.5 billion in interest earnings. (source)​

Reserves in Medicare's two trust funds decreased by $3 billion to a total of $263 billion at the end of 2015. (source)​

 

[jaeger19]

Medical journals and conferences? And how does Big Phrama "market" to physicians? With a professional newsletter? No, by bribing them into pushing their products.
]

Nice try. But at the end of the day.. if providers and patients are not made aware of new medications and their benefits and risks... then they cannot benefit from them. And that takes marketing.

figure it should be added to yer very long list. He said the trust fund has money in it, not that it's paying out less than it's taking in.

Hmmm... I said it was running in the red. He said I was wrong.
and you are trying to help him by telling me...

But but but... it was "close to being in the black".. last year.

and then you go on to tell us all that the funds in the trust funds decreased at the end of 2015.

Yeah.. you got me there MMI. :roll:

 

[danielpalos]

Jobless Claims in U.S. Rise to Highest in Almost Three Months

Filings for U.S. unemployment benefits unexpectedly rose to the highest level in almost three months, extending increases from a four-decade low.

Source: Jobless Claims in U.S. Rise to Highest in Almost Three Months - Bloomberg

Why is Labor being burdened by Capitalism's, natural rate of unemployment?

Capital should be free to seek lawful gains from wherever they may be found.

So should Labor. We already have laws regarding the concept of employment, at the will of either party.

Why is Labor suffering under a one-sided regime of unemployment compensation that does not conform to the legal concept of employment at will?

 

[Critter7r]

its not the same amount of dollars. for it to be the same amount of dollars they would have to take MORE out of your paycheck.

You're right. If health care insurance thru the gov't is 10%, you make $1000 and your policy costs $100; they still tax you for fed, state and FICA on the whole $1000, whereas currently if your policy is $100, you only get taxed on $900. So, you save the amount of tax on the cost of your policy.

 

[Critter7r]

Most "workers" get their health insurance through their employers and most of them don't pay premiums as high as 6.2% of their income. After that, there is a lot that medicare does not cover and that is why most people buy supplemental insurance on top of medicare.

I pay 8% of my gross pay. And that's AFTER my employer pays 50% of my health insurance premium.

I'm 42, 5'10", 180, non-smoker, on a individual policy. I've been to the doctor thrice in the past 7 years ... a vasectomy and two "annual" checkups.

When I was married, it was me, my wife and her daughter and it was 13% of my gross.

I'm mid-level management and make more than household median income as an individual, so it's not like I'm poor, but how much are the people that work here and make half of what I make spending? 16% of their pay?

Health care insurance is a joke.

 

[Critter7r]

Nice try. But at the end of the day.. if providers and patients are not made aware of new medications and their benefits and risks... then they cannot benefit from them. And that takes marketing.

When an auto manufacturer [drug-maker] comes out with a new procedure [drug] to fix a problem [health issue] they're having with their cars [patients], their marketing is only to their dealers [hospitals], it requires no marketing to the general public. it doesn't involve spending millions on TV and print ads, it's a mass email explaining it to the dealer managers [hospital admins] who then disseminate the info to the techs [doctors] working on the cars [patients]. It's not necessary for customers [patients] to come into the dealership [hospital] and request that a specific wheel bearing puller [drug] be used to fix their car [body]. The technician [doctor] knows with tool [prescription, therapy, etc] to use [prescribe].

 

[jaeger19]

You're right. If health care insurance thru the gov't is 10%, you make $1000 and your policy costs $100; they still tax you for fed, state and FICA on the whole $1000, whereas currently if your policy is $100, you only get taxed on $900. So, you save the amount of tax on the cost of your policy.

AND you don;t get taxed at all.. on what your employer put in for your policy.

 

[jaeger19]

When an auto manufacturer [drug-maker] comes out with a new procedure [drug] to fix a problem [health issue] they're having with their cars [patients], their marketing is only to their dealers [hospitals], it requires no marketing to the general public. it doesn't involve spending millions on TV and print ads, it's a mass email explaining it to the dealer managers [hospital admins] who then disseminate the info to the techs [doctors] working on the cars [patients]. It's not necessary for customers [patients] to come into the dealership [hospital] and request that a specific wheel bearing puller [drug] be used to fix their car [body]. The technician [doctor] knows with tool [prescription, therapy, etc] to use [prescribe].

When an automaker [drug manufacturer] develops a new innovation or invention {drug] that they think their customer [peoplet] needs or wants.. their marketing is to both their dealers [medical providers] to inservice them on how to use/install the new innovation or invention or its superiority over previous products.. and they market to the general public (people) to inform them of the advantages of their new innovation or invention and to encourage them to seek out dealers [medical providers] to obtain these innovations or inventions.

 

[Critter7r]

When an automaker [drug manufacturer] develops a new innovation or invention {drug] that they think their customer [peoplet] needs or wants.. their marketing is to both their dealers [medical providers] to inservice them on how to use/install the new innovation or invention or its superiority over previous products.. and they market to the general public (people) to inform them of the advantages of their new innovation or invention and to encourage them to seek out dealers [medical providers] to obtain these innovations or inventions.

We differ there ... I don't think patients should be requesting specific medications. They should be going to their doctor and letting the person with years of training choose the best fix for whatever ails them. Customers don't (generally) come into my work asking for their car to be fixed by a specific method, just that it be fixed. We are the professionals and we know the best way to fix it. Doctors are the same.

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[jaeger19]

We differ there ... I don't think patients should be requesting specific medications. They should be going to their doctor and letting the person with years of training choose the best fix for whatever ails them. Customers don't (generally) come into my work asking for their car to be fixed by a specific method, just that it be fixed. We are the professionals and we know the best way to fix it. Doctors are the same.

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We definitely differ. I am in medicine. One of the biggest problems in medicine has been that patients are way too passive and ill informed about their health, body and treatments. "your the expert Doc.. whatever you think".
AHHHH... worst things to hear from a patient.

There are two things I definitely know. 1. There is a God. And 2. I am not Him!

Patients should be discussing specific medications with their physician.. they should be actively involve in their care and questioning what the best treatment for themselves.

Its the way medicine works best.. particularly in this day and age of less physician time.

 

[Critter7r]

We definitely differ. I am in medicine. One of the biggest problems in medicine has been that patients are way too passive and ill informed about their health, body and treatments. "your the expert Doc.. whatever you think".
AHHHH... worst things to hear from a patient.

There are two things I definitely know. 1. There is a God. And 2. I am not Him!

Patients should be discussing specific medications with their physician.. they should be actively involve in their care and questioning what the best treatment for themselves.

Its the way medicine works best.. particularly in this day and age of less physician time.

They definitely SHOULD be discussing things with their doctor. I don't believe that doctors are any more fond of hearing, "I saw this commercial for _______ . Think itd work for me?" than our techs are of hearing, "i saw this repair on the internet, it should only take 12 minutes".

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[Moderate Right]

I pay 8% of my gross pay. And that's AFTER my employer pays 50% of my health insurance premium.

I'm 42, 5'10", 180, non-smoker, on a individual policy. I've been to the doctor thrice in the past 7 years ... a vasectomy and two "annual" checkups.

When I was married, it was me, my wife and her daughter and it was 13% of my gross.

I'm mid-level management and make more than household median income as an individual, so it's not like I'm poor, but how much are the people that work here and make half of what I make spending? 16% of their pay?

Health care insurance is a joke.

This from one of the people who refuse anecdotes from others they debate with?

 

[Critter7r]

This from one of the people who refuse anecdotes from others they debate with?

Well, since the policies for all 600 of the employees of the place where I work cost the same, and I earn more than many of them, i figured it was a little better than, "this one time, I had this ****ty employee that didn't want to work extra hours".

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[Moderate Right]

Well, since the policies for all 600 of the employees of the place where I work cost the same, and I earn more than many of them, i figured it was a little better than, "this one time, I had this ****ty employee that didn't want to work extra hours".

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Oh please. I've stated a few times that my wife works for a large hospital chain doing collections, talking to hundreds of people day after day for close to two years now and that she constantly hears gripes and earfuls about Obamacare and has yet to have one person say in all that time that they were glad they had Obamacare and all you guys say is, "Anecdotal, anecdotal". I've also said that I have employed thousands and thousands of people over my decades in management and have talked to fellow business owners across the entire country for decades in several different types of businesses with all of us reporting the same thing that many of our employees don't want to get ahead and don't want to save money when they can and other various things about how lazy they are and how many of them try to cheat the system (disability for one) and, again, all you guys say is, "Anecdotal, anecdotal". This is just one more example of the same liberal hypocrisy that the left is famous for, refusing to listen to other's anecdotal arguments while submitting their own anecdotal arguments. We need to clear this up. Are you now saying that you will accept anecdotal arguments from both sides or are you going to retract what you said or are you just going to claim that your anecdotal arguments are better than the other side's?

 

[Critter7r]

Oh please. I've stated a few times that my wife works for a large hospital chain doing collections, talking to hundreds of people day after day for close to two years now and that she constantly hears gripes and earfuls about Obamacare and has yet to have one person say in all that time that they were glad they had Obamacare and all you guys say is, "Anecdotal, anecdotal". I've also said that I have employed thousands and thousands of people over my decades in management and have talked to fellow business owners across the entire country for decades in several different types of businesses with all of us reporting the same thing that many of our employees don't want to get ahead and don't want to save money when they can and other various things about how lazy they are and how many of them try to cheat the system (disability for one) and, again, all you guys say is, "Anecdotal, anecdotal". This is just one more example of the same liberal hypocrisy that the left is famous for, refusing to listen to other's anecdotal arguments while submitting their own anecdotal arguments. We need to clear this up. Are you now saying that you will accept anecdotal arguments from both sides or are you going to retract what you said or are you just going to claim that your anecdotal arguments are better than the other side's?

The difference is that I didn't try to speak for everyone. It was an obviously anecdotal counter to "well, everyone .." with a ,"well, not EVERYone, because ... reasons ..". I didn't say that my singular situation meant that it must be that way everywhere, which you clearly try to do. People dismiss your claims because you claim that since you see it, it must be universal.

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[jaeger19]

They definitely SHOULD be discussing things with their doctor. I don't believe that doctors are any more fond of hearing, "I saw this commercial for _______ . Think itd work for me?" than our techs are of hearing, "i saw this repair on the internet, it should only take 12 minutes".

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Probably not.. they are not fond of hearing it.

Because then the physician has to take time to explain whether its a good idea or not.. or might have to actually realize.. "hey that might be a good idea"..

and your techs might go "shoot, he knows I can't do the repair and then go out back for a smoke and bill for 1/2 hour of time"...

"it appears that you have grabbed me by the base of my snarklies" Mr. Conehead.

 

[Moderate Right]

The difference is that I didn't try to speak for everyone. It was an obviously anecdotal counter to "well, everyone .." with a ,"well, not EVERYone, because ... reasons ..". I didn't say that my singular situation meant that it must be that way everywhere, which you clearly try to do. People dismiss your claims because you claim that since you see it, it must be universal.

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You claimed you were speaking for 600 co-workers! And yet when I talk about literally thousands and thousands of employees I have had over the decades, or the thousands and thousands of people my wife has personally talked to in less than two years, it is discounted as anecdotal and too small of a sample to mean anything. None of the rest of us or I have ever used the word EVERYONE. I'm still waiting for your retraction. Otherwise, everything you say will be dismissed as biased partisanship and liberal hypocrisy.

 

[Critter7r]

You claimed you were speaking for 600 co-workers!

Only after you brought up your non-point about my post being hypocritical did I bring up my internal thought process behind having posted in the first place. My original post relayed only my situation in response to a "Well, everyone ... "-type of post.

EDIT : the post (yours, by the way) that I responded to read, "Most "workers" get their health insurance through their employers and most of them don't pay premiums as high as 6.2% of their income. After that, there is a lot that medicare does not cover and that is why most people buy supplemental insurance on top of medicare."

So you're right, it didn't say "everyone", but it did seem to imply that only a small fraction of workers were affected by such numbers. That may be true, which is why I didn't qualify my initial response with, "But the 600 people I work with ... " I merely relayed my anecdotal "woe is me" story.

And yet when I talk about literally thousands and thousands of employees I have had over the decades, or the thousands and thousands of people my wife has personally talked to in less than two years, it is discounted as anecdotal and too small of a sample to mean anything. None of the rest of us or I have ever used the word EVERYONE. I'm still waiting for your retraction. Otherwise, everything you say will be dismissed as biased partisanship and liberal hypocrisy.

Regardless of my response, you will dismiss my posts, so have at it.

 

[mmi]

And that takes marketing.

Yer usual logic — "it's true because I say it is."

>>I said it was running in the red. He said I was wrong.

Did he? In #4946, he said, "currently Medicare pays out more than it collects."

>>and you are trying to help him

Nope, I don't try to "help" anyone here. And why would anyone need it "debating" you?

>>it was "close to being in the black" last year

Yes.

>>the funds in the trust funds decreased at the end of 2015

Yes, by one percent.

>>you got me there MMI.

Nothing new.

There are two things I definitely know. 1. There is a God. And 2. I am not Him!

And yer not a physician either. Fwiw, I'm sure no one here perceives you as divine.

 

[jaeger19]

Yer usual logic — "it's true because I say it is."

.

Whatever.

Did he? In #4946, he said, "currently Medicare pays out more than it collects."

Yep.. which was a nuanced position after I pointed it out to him.

Yes.

Yep.. and close does not mean it was in the black.. hence it was in the red. AS I stated.

Yes, by one percent

Yep.. again.. more support for the fact I was right.. its running in the red.

Nope, I don't try to "help" anyone here. And why would anyone need it "debating" you?

See above.

And yer not a physician either. Fwiw, I'm sure no one here perceives you as divine

.

That's funny. :2wave:

 

[Moderate Right]

Only after you brought up your non-point about my post being hypocritical did I bring up my internal thought process behind having posted in the first place. My original post relayed only my situation in response to a "Well, everyone ... "-type of post.

EDIT : the post (yours, by the way) that I responded to read, "Most "workers" get their health insurance through their employers and most of them don't pay premiums as high as 6.2% of their income. After that, there is a lot that medicare does not cover and that is why most people buy supplemental insurance on top of medicare."

So you're right, it didn't say "everyone", but it did seem to imply that only a small fraction of workers were affected by such numbers. That may be true, which is why I didn't qualify my initial response with, "But the 600 people I work with ... " I merely relayed my anecdotal "woe is me" story.




Regardless of my response, you will dismiss my posts, so have at it.

As MMI would say, I accept your pathetic surrender.

 

[Critter7r]

As MMI would say, I accept your pathetic surrender.

I wasn't even debating you, so don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

 

[Moderate Right]

I wasn't even debating you, so don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Oh. Sorry. I didn't realize this was a closed thread.

 

[mmi]

Whatever.

One of yer more convincing arguments.

>>a nuanced position after I pointed it out to him.

When was that, and what's "nuanced" about it? In #4944, you said he "failed to account for the fact that Medicare … is STILL not taking in more than its giving out currently." When did he say that it is?

>>it was in the red. AS I stated.

No one ever said it wasn't. I might say that you "FAILED to account for the fact that Medicare" lost just one percent of its holdings last year.

>>more support for the fact I was right

Yeah, yer correct about some things. The problem is that you misrepresent (to be charitable) statements made by others, and also when yer shown to be incorrect, you come up with stuff like "it's common sense" and "whatever."