Exclusive: US extracted top spy from inside Russia in 2017

[dixon01767]

Obviously you didn't read the Mueller report. Did Hannity not inform you what transpired hours after Trump's request?

.

They DIDNT find Hillarys emails.

 

[Anthony60]

I hear Hughes wears his skates backwards.

He has special skates that can go on either way. So there.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

They DIDNT find Hillarys emails.

From the Mueller report:

“Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office,”

Is there anything else you would like to say about this specific topic?

Just in case you missed it, or have some sort of Clinton Derangement Syndrome mental block, let me repeat it again:

“Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office,”

...

Just for the record let's show the sequence of events:

1. "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press,”

2. “Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office,”

I have to post it twice because you are obviously suffering from Clinton Derangement Syndrome:

1. "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press,”

2. “Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office,”

 

[tres borrachos]

He has special skates that can go on either way. So there.

I always suspected Hughes was bi.

 

[Athanasius68]

Intention matters.

The fact that Trump intended to coordinate with the Russian government and against his own country, the United States, should be a big red flag to everyone even if he may have failed.

The Trump campaign had trouble coordinating with itself; it was a chaotic organization.
There was no intent to coordinate with Russia.

Steele didn't spy on the U.S., instead, Steele Spied on Russia. So when you try to claim the two things are comparable they aren't.

Steele was hired to find dirt on Trump from Russian sources on behalf of the Clinton campaign.
The Trump campaign did not look for dirt on Clinton from Russian sources.
He was not acting as a public servant, but rather as a paid employee.

And, on top of that, while Steele was trying to learn more information about Trump he uncovered an active intelligence operation against the United States to interfere in our election

.

The FBI had uncovered that in 2015.

So, not only was Steele not spying on the United States, he was helping the United States uncover actions directed against the United States on the part of the Russian government.

How do we know that he was not an UNWITTING participant in the Russian intelligence operation? Why are we trusting his sources? Steele himself said he doesn't know who they all are.

 

[Athanasius68]

From the Mueller report:

“Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office,”

Is there anything else you would like to say about this specific topic?

Just in case you missed it, or have some sort of Clinton Derangement Syndrome mental block, let me repeat it again:

“Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office,”

...

Just for the record let's show the sequence of events:

1. "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press,”

2. “Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office,”

I have to post it twice because you are obviously suffering from Clinton Derangement Syndrome:

1. "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press,”

2. “Within approximately five hours of Trump's statement, GRU officers targeted for the first time Clinton's personal office,”

Sounds like somebody in the GRU has a sense of humor...

 

[W_Heisenberg]

The Trump campaign had trouble coordinating with itself; it was a chaotic organization. There was no intent to coordinate with Russia.

This is a non-sequitur. You can be incompetent and also have disloyal or bad intent.

Steele was hired to find dirt on Trump from Russian sources on behalf of the Clinton campaign.

So what?

The Trump campaign did not look for dirt on Clinton from Russian sources.

This doesn't matter with respect to the point I made, and it's also 100% false. Read the Mueller report, and Peter Smith's efforts to reach Russian hackers.

He was not acting as a public servant, but rather as a paid employee.

It doesn't matter that he wasn't on the CIA's payroll. What matter is that he wasn't conducting espionage against the U.S.

And, by the way, guess what Steele did when he uncovered the Russian plot against the U.S.? HE let the CIA and the FBI know about it.

What did Trump do? He lied about it and he didn't tell the CIA or the FBI about it.

The FBI had uncovered that in 2015.

I think your timing may be a little off but it doesn't matter with respect to the points you're trying to make. What matters is that Steele, once he acquired the information, informed the U.S. government about it.

How do we know that he was not an UNWITTING participant in the Russian intelligence operation? Why are we trusting his sources? Steele himself said he doesn't know who they all are.

This could be true, but the difference a good person and a bad person, according to our criminal code and our general moral code, is their INTENT.

If an individual INTENDS to do something bad they are a worse person than someone who does something which results in a negative consequence by accident.

Intent is the difference between a traitor and a bumbling idiot.

 

[Athanasius68]

The Clinton campaign, via Steele, retrieved the dirt from Russia by persuading Russians to turn against their own government.

We don't know that. Who says these Russians turned against their government? Maybe they played Steele. Putin was after all targeting the election and trying to get Trump to take anti-Clinton stuff. Maybe he was trying to get Clinton to take anti-Trump stuff via Steele?

All of Steele's espionage efforts were directed against Russia. At no point did Steele or Clinton do anything to harm our national interests. Further, do you know what Steele did when they uncovered the Russian plot against us? He went to the FBI and said, "Hey look, I think Russia's doing something bad."

Unless he was played for a fool by Russian intelligence. He was anti-Trump. Maybe his personal convictions interfered with his professional judgement.

What people suspected Trump would have done, given the chance, is receive a campaign benefit from the Russian government, in this case, dirt on Clinton, in exchange for a favor to the Russian government,

Such people are wrong.

We don't want foreign governments deciding which of our politicians get elected in order to benefit them.

And yet, the Trump campaign received NOTHING from Russia.
Whereas, the Clinton campaign received the dossier, a document with information from anonymous Russian sources. Which in turn was used by the Obama Admin in court as evidence to obtain a warrant on an American citizen.
it seems to me that Clinton/Obama had no problem with Russian interference in the election, as long as it benefited them.

Did You know what Trump did when he discovered what Russia was offering? He didn't go to the FBI.

Yep-- he should have.
And when the Steele dossier surfaced, the Obama Admin should have been very skeptical of its provenance, given that it knew Russia was seeking to screw with the election. Instead, it took it as gospel and ran with it. As we can now see, that decision was far more destructive than anything Trump did, or didn't do, on this score.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Sounds like somebody in the GRU has a sense of humor...

Yeah, let's give the GRU the benefit of doubt, and construct conspiracy theories attacking the USIC.

Sounds like somebody likes the GRU more than their own country.

 

[dixon01767]

I think this may be too difficult for you to understand.

Let's analyze it again. Let's go through it step by step...

The Clinton campaign, via Steele, retrieved the dirt from Russia by persuading Russians to turn against their own government..

Nobody turned on the Russian government. They likely provided the disinformation at the direction of the Russian Government.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Such people are wrong.

We know your assessment is inaccurate because the Mueller report indicates several different attempts by the Trump campaign to coordinate with the Russian government.

You should read it.

And yet, the Trump campaign received NOTHING from Russia. Whereas, the Clinton campaign received the dossier, a document with information from anonymous Russian sources. Which in turn was used by the Obama Admin in court as evidence to obtain a warrant on an American citizen. it seems to me that Clinton/Obama had no problem with Russian interference in the election, as long as it benefited them.

Steele acquired his information by conducting an intelligence operation against the Russian government. He did not conduct an intelligence operation against the U.S. government. The reason why Trump's intent and judgment is in question is that his campaign sought to actively coordinate with a hostile and ongoing intelligence operation against the United States. Had he successfully done such a thing he would be considered a traitor in the colloquial sense of the word, not in the strict, legal sense.

The counter-intelligence investigation of Russia's intelligence operation against the United States was initiated before the USIC acquired the Steele dossier.

Yep-- he should have. And when the Steele dossier surfaced, the Obama Admin should have been very skeptical of its provenance, given that it knew Russia was seeking to screw with the election. Instead, it took it as gospel and ran with it.

That's not true. They're not stupid. It's not like the U.S. suddenly started learning about how to conduct espionage the moment the Steele dossier fell on its lap. They would understand that the Steele dossier was merely a collection of field reports. They would understand the nature of espionage and how it cannot be totally trusted, and in many instances never proven. And the FISA judges would have this understanding as well. They are not stupid people. This is their wheelhouse. And the warrants kept getting renewed because they kept uncovering new information. So, you're just flat-out wrong about this.

And we now have two crucial clues that the Steele dossier wasn't the end-all, be-all of the investigation, nor was it the origin of the investigation. We have Papadopoulos and Byrne.

And, I hate to break it to you, but a lot of the stuff in the dossier turned out to be correct.

As we can now see, that decision was far more destructive than anything Trump did, or didn't do, on this score.

The only thing that is destructive is this notion on the part of Trump and his supporters that Trump is above the law and immune from investigation.

The FBI had every reason to investigate Trump and Trump's campaign. It was their duty and we should be thankful they did their jobs and did not cower in the face of a thug and a bully who has ZERO respect for our national security, our laws and our constitution.

And, now, we have clear evidence the GOP Senators in Congress find that Obstruction of Justice is acceptable so long as it's their guy doing it.

The problem is Trump supporters care more about their own policy proposals than they do about the country itself. That is what is destructive. It is an extremist position which should not in any way be tolerated by American voters.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Nobody turned on the Russian government. They likely provided the disinformation at the direction of the Russian Government.

We know that's not true. Your blanket, all-or-nothing statement is simply WRONG.

According to the testimony of Simpson's attorney, at least one Russian asset of his was killed when knowledge of the dossier became public.

Fusion GPS lawyer: "Somebody's already been killed as a result" of Trump Dossier being published - CBS News

You need to get out of this Hannity conspiracy bubble and start reading things for yourself.

 

[Anthony60]

I always suspected Hughes was bi.

At least they got a two way player.


Sent from my iPhone XX Turbo using Tapacrap

 

[tres borrachos]

At least they got a two way player.


Sent from my iPhone XX Turbo using Tapacrap

Yes indeed! One way to the bench, and the other way on his ass when Kakko floors him.

 

[Athanasius68]

Yeah, let's give the GRU the benefit of doubt, and construct conspiracy theories attacking the USIC.

Sounds like somebody likes the GRU more than their own country.

I'm the guy who wonders why we ought to trust anti-Trump information from anonymous Russian sources.
That is-- the dossier.

 

[Athanasius68]

This is a non-sequitur. You can be incompetent and also have disloyal or bad intent.

Ok-- but there was neither.

So what?

Then don't complain about the Trump campaign not calling the FBI or responding favorably to Russian outreach.

This doesn't matter with respect to the point I made, and it's also 100% false. Read the Mueller report, and Peter Smith's efforts to reach Russian hackers.

Then it needs reminding that the Clinton campaign (via Steele) reached out to Russian sources.

It doesn't matter that he wasn't on the CIA's payroll. What matter is that he wasn't conducting espionage against the U.S.

And..? Nobody said he was.

And, by the way, guess what Steele did when he uncovered the Russian plot against the U.S.? HE let the CIA and the FBI know about it.

What did Trump do? He lied about it and he didn't tell the CIA or the FBI about it.

Trump didn't discover a Russian plot. He was caught up in it.
As was the Clinton campaign, and the Obama Admin.

This could be true, but the difference a good person and a bad person, according to our criminal code and our general moral code, is their INTENT.

If an individual INTENDS to do something bad they are a worse person than someone who does something which results in a negative consequence by accident.

Intent is the difference between a traitor and a bumbling idiot.

Steele was anti-Trump. As was the Obama Admin. What were their intent so as to so quickly accept the validity of anti-Trump information?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I'm the guy who wonders why we ought to trust anti-Trump information from anonymous Russian sources.
That is-- the dossier.

Here's how it works. Here's how intelligence works.

There is an ongoing assumption that countries like Russia are always engaged in espionage against the U.S. at all times.

So, it's sort of like an ongoing, neverending, criminal conspiracy.

The obligation of the USIC is to follow up on leads, under the assumption that some of these leads will reveal ongoing intelligence operations against the U.S., and also the understanding that most of the leads won't amount to anything.

The USIC investigates things, and the things for which they express high confidence in, are things which are corroborated from other sources. Many of the things listed in the Steele dossier are things which they were able to corroborate. Quite a few of the things in the Steele dossier will never be corroborated. The reason is the nature of intelligence, when it comes to actual communication with assets and not spy satellites, is that it is mostly about rumor and gossip. They actually talk to people and ask them, what's the last rumor you heard? What information can you tell me? What do you have?

And, no, the people Steele spoke with weren't anonymous to him.

And Steele wasn't just random private investigator. He's a former MI6.

It's a ridiculous notion that someone like Steele can't be trusted.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Ok-- but there was neither.

You just said Trump's campaign was a chaotic mess, or in other words, incompetent, so you're not making any sense.

Then don't complain about the Trump campaign not calling the FBI or responding favorably to Russian outreach.

Well, the Clinton folks didn't do anything wrong silly. They were acting against Russian interests, not U.S. interests.

The Trump campaign was effectively acting against U.S. interests by failing to inform the USIC about their activities because the Russians were acting contrary to U.S. interests.

It's not that complicated.

Then it needs reminding that the Clinton campaign (via Steele) reached out to Russian sources.

It was not an act of disloyalty to the U.S. on the part of Clinton or of Steele for Steele to act contrary to Russian interests and spy on the Russian government.

It's not complicated.

And..? Nobody said he was.

I did, and that's what matters. Russia acted against the U.S. Trump tried to work with them.

Trump didn't discover a Russian plot. He was caught up in it.

Yes, he was caught up in it, and actively engaged with it. Fortunately, there is no evidence his attempted coordination with the Russian government's hostile intelligence operation against the United States was successful.

As was the Clinton campaign and the Obama Admin.

No, they didn't. Which Hannity inspired fever dream leads you to this conclusion?

Steele was anti-Trump.

No, read the Congressional testimony and the legal records about Steele. Steele BECAME anti-Trump AFTER he found out Trump was beholden to the Russian government.

And his actions were that of a loyal ally. He shared his information with the USIC.

On the other hand, Trump, the almost-traitor, kept it secret, and then he lied about it.

As was the Obama Admin. What were their intent so as to so quickly accept the validity of anti-Trump information?

The Obama administration was pro-American interests.

Every administration has an obligation to INVESTIGATE leads as it relates to the espionage activities of hostile foreign governments.

 

[Athanasius68]

We know your assessment is inaccurate because the Mueller report indicates several different attempts by the Trump campaign to coordinate with the Russian government.

It describes efforts of Russia of reaching out to the Trump campaign. And some positive responses to it.

Steele acquired his information by conducting an intelligence operation against the Russian government.

Or he acquired it as an unwitting part of the Russian operation against the USA.

The counter-intelligence investigation of Russia's intelligence operation against the United States was initiated before the USIC acquired the Steele dossier.

This is true.

That's not true. They're not stupid. It's not like the U.S. suddenly started learning about how to conduct espionage the moment the Steele dossier fell on its lap. They would understand that the Steele dossier was merely a collection of field reports. They would understand the nature of espionage and how it cannot be totally trusted, and in many instances never proven. And the FISA judges would have this understanding as well. They are not stupid people. This is their wheelhouse. And the warrants kept getting renewed because they kept uncovering new information. So, you're just flat-out wrong about this.

The FBI told the FISA court that the dossier was confirmed.
It was not. In other words, it was not presented as a bunch of field reports but as a finished document.

It should be pointed out that when Mueller took over, he ended the warrants on Page. Page, of course, was never charged with anything.

And we now have two crucial clues that the Steele dossier wasn't the end-all, be-all of the investigation, nor was it the origin of the investigation. We have Papadopoulos and Byrne.

Papadapoulos wasnt even interviewed until Jan 2017-- some importance he was.

The only thing that is destructive is this notion on the part of Trump and his supporters that Trump is above the law and immune from investigation

.

I am not aware of anyone saying this.

The FBI had every reason to investigate Trump and Trump's campaign.

Such as? Mueller conducted a two year investigation and found no credible evidence that there was ever a conspiracy. What didn't he find that the FBI knew?

And, now, we have clear evidence the GOP Senators in Congress find that Obstruction of Justice is acceptable so long as it's their guy doing it.

What evidence is that? The obstruction arguments in the report are theoretical.

 

[dixon01767]

Whereas, the Clinton campaign received the dossier, a document with information from anonymous Russian sources.

We now know two of them. Vyacheslav Trubnikov, who was then currently the First Deputy of Foreign Minister of Russia and formally served as the Director of Foreign Intelligence Service and Putin aide Vladislav Surkov.

 

[Athanasius68]

You just said Trump's campaign was a chaotic mess, or in other words, incompetent, so you're not making any sense.

You are the one saying they had a plan to coordinate with Russia, at a time when they had trouble coordinating with their own field offices

Well, the Clinton folks didn't do anything wrong silly. They were acting against Russian interests, not U.S. interests.

The Trump campaign was effectively acting against U.S. interests by failing to inform the USIC about their activities because the Russians were acting contrary to U.S. interests.

It's not that complicated.

Why would you think it was not in Russia's interest to sow confusion in the American electorate?

It was not an act of disloyalty to the U.S. on the part of Clinton or of Steele for Steele to act contrary to Russian interests and spy on the Russian government.

Oh-- so it would be okay to receive anti-Trump dirt from Russian sources, but not anti-Clinton dirt from Russian sources?

Yes, he was caught up in it, and actively engaged with it. Fortunately, there is no evidence his attempted coordination with the Russian government's hostile intelligence operation against the United States was successful.

Trump didn't actually actively engaged in the Russian efforts.
That would be the Clinton campaign and then the Obama Admin, who actually took and used anti-Trump dirt from Russian sources (Of course, that conclusion depends upon whether we give Russian intelligence the benefit of the doubt as to whether they would feed intelligence they controlled to a third party).

No, they didn't. Which Hannity inspired fever dream leads you to this conclusion?

The one where the Clinton campaigned paid for anti-Trump dirt from anonymous Russian sources. And the one where Obama used those anonymous Russian sources as evidence in a court of law to secure a warrant on an American citizen.

No, read the Congressional testimony and the legal records about Steele. Steele BECAME anti-Trump AFTER he found out Trump was beholden to the Russian government.

He was anti-Trump before.

Every administration has an obligation to INVESTIGATE leads as it relates to the espionage activities of hostile foreign governments.

Of course. Who has said otherwise?

 

[dixon01767]

We know that's not true. ……...

Revealing that you didn't provide anything to support that assertion. How do "we" know its not true other than your oh so desperate need to believe its not true.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

It describes efforts of Russia of reaching out to the Trump campaign. And some positive responses to it.

Nope. Read the section of the report about Peter Smith. Peter Smith tried to reach out to Russian hackers.

Or he acquired it as an unwitting part of the Russian operation against the USA.

This is possible, but that was not his intent. Intent matters.

The FBI told the FISA court that the dossier was confirmed.

The FBI told the FISA court they found Steele and his information to be "credible", that's not the same thing as saying everything in the dossier was "confirmed".

It was not. In other words, it was not presented as a bunch of field reports but as a finished document.

I just spent the past 15 minutes looking at the actual warrant in question and I could not find any reference to Steele's information as a "finished document". All I could find was that they found Steele to be credible based on previous information he collected and gave to the United States government. So, which page are you looking at, or are we still using Hannity and Sara Carter's imaginations?

Papadapoulos wasnt even interviewed until Jan 2017-- some importance he was.

The USIC received information about the shenanigans Papadopoulos was involved in BEFORE it received the Steel dossier.

I am not aware of anyone saying this.

Every single day until the investigation ended: witch hunt, witch hunt, witch hunt.

Such as? Mueller conducted a two year investigation and found no credible evidence that there was ever a conspiracy. What didn't he find that the FBI knew?

Jesus H....read the effing report.

There is a difference between finding evidence sufficient to prove a crime beyond a reasonable doubt and finding probable cause sufficient to compel a judge to issue a warrant.

If everybody knew the outcome of an investigation beforehand, there would never be any investigations of anything.

It's not complicated. And Trump doesn't get a free pass because you like him. Presidents are not immune from investigations.

What evidence is that? The obstruction arguments in the report are theoretical.

That's not true. There is a litany of evidence for a variety of different incidents. It's only theoretical if you think the Dear Leader never lies, and any time there is contrary information, it's always the other person lying and not the Dear Leader.

Wake up.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Revealing that you didn't provide anything to support that assertion. How do "we" know its not true other than your oh so desperate need to believe its not true.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/redi...-been-killed-because-trump-dossier-published/

 

[Ahlevah]

It's a bad thing, owing to Donald "Loose Lips" Trump

View attachment 67263442

CNN reported an "exclusive" concerning the extraction of a CIA asset from Russia? If that's true, it would appear that CNN's lips are an order of magnitude larger than Trump's.