- Joined
- May 15, 2008
- Messages
- 1,058
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- 514
- Location
- San Diego
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- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
Because I look at the incredible interconnected complexity of the world around me and see purpose, not chance. It's a matter of perspective, and if you don't see it that way, I don't see how I can make you understand why I do. If you don't... well, you don't. To me it seems very obvious.
My belief, my faith, is something that has grown over the course of a lifetime. Explaining why I have that faith would take a lifetime to tell, in full. In brief, I have experienced far too many things in life that cause me to believe there has to be a God; and many years of reading the Bible, being an observer of human nature, and of life and history, nature and so much more, led me to the conclusion that God is the God of the Bible. I've experienced things that demand these conclusions. Trying to explain it is a bit like trying to explain love to someone who has never felt it. I cannot prove it scientifically as it is not a scientific issue, but rather a spiritual and personal issue.
If you were viewing the issue from my perspective you might think otherwise. From within the context of my own life-experiences, I find the existence and omnipresence of God as self-evident as the rising of the sun. If you don't, then fair enough, you just don't.
If you don't share my beliefs, then you don't.... my beliefs do not require you to agree, don't depend on anyone else's agreement, don't sway because someone questions or ridicules them, or because the majority feels otherwise.
I felt a spiritual conviction to express my beliefs on this subject; I have done so. I don't necessarily expect anyone to openly agree with me, since few will risk the ridicule that usually follows from those holding to "position 1".
For the politeness and courtesy of your response, Duke, I thank you. It was a better reaction than I expected to encounter.
G.
A typical argument of an evolutionist – and who are you?
- Who are you to tell me?
- And who are you to tell me?
As I told many times, I do not have to be an authority to establish the obvious fact that evolutionists use morphology as a measurement. It is what you do, I just point to the fact that you do.
I stated ‘’Proposed is not established or observed’’. I do not need to explain that this statement is true to anybody except evolutionists, and it is evident to anybody except evolutionists that nothing can be explained to evolutionists if they ask for explanation of such a simple truth.
As I told many times, Neither your link, nor my investigation ever shows that your statement is true, but only the opposite can be deducted.
I do not have time or intention to go through all BS you wish to post. I did not have to because I quoted the results of ISSR and as it was evident from the quote they did NOT establish parenthood, but ->
Then what are DNA tests for courts for?
Science gathers evidence to explain natural phenonomon until it gathers so much evidence that it backs a theory beyond all reasonable doubt.As I told many times, It all starts from the fact I have demonstrated so many times, - evolutionists do not know, do not understand, do not follow rules of science from the very start, starting from Darwin. They bring confusion to most simple things as they have no ability to understand most simple things. Indeed science by its nature does not make true statements, it does not establish any truth. When you read on your calendar that the Sun will rise tomorrow at 4.53 am it is not a 100% definite and true statement. There is no logical proof for the statement that if it was raining/shining for the last n days then it will rain/shine/rise tomorrow to be true. It is a proposition - on the base of observations of the sun in the past it is proposed that it will rise tomorrow at 4.53 am as the proposition is 100% proven by mathematical calculations coming to the number 4.53 and there are no observations of the past or mathematical proofs related to this or that observation that would result in a different number, a different proposition. Science does not gather evidence, it is not an evidence related activity, it is an empirical EXPERIMENTAL activity, it starts from gathering observations of a phenomena (occurrences of the sun rising) and finishes with occurrences of phenomena.
Mule stats is noticeably different. As I told many times, you have not established the number dividing successful from unsuccessful. You change order and float the point 0.1 to 0.000001 at will just to fit your beliefs.
How the same plant duplicating the same genetic information is getting more distant from the same plant? And whatever is the answer, - as I asked so many times, -what observation does confirm such a suggestion?
You are pulling the same worn out ad hom a strawmen fallacies and again and again and again and again. You are –reusing the same condom again and again and again. How many more times?
I gave you a concrete reference to them doing math. You have not made a word related to the reference and the facts but went into you usual violent assault on religion of other people. As well you have completely ignored my reply to your statement about evolution and mathematics. For some reason you think that if evolutionists blinded by their hatred to Christians do not notice that, then nobody notices that. I wonder how much Ikari is blinded by his hatred and if he can see what I wanted to demonstrate to him. Ikari, where are you?
I have been considering mostly YOUR evidence.
I have assumed that the quoted sources of yours report their experiments as they should, and I have no evidence telling me that I should think otherwise and not to trust them.
As I asked many times, how many times have you already used this line?
The human mind loves to see order in chaos, purpose in futility, and meaning in the void. Of course it cannot be explained, it's something inborn, lacking in logic, reason. Some overcome this failing of the brain, some cannot, some chose not to.
. I have another question; do you think the god you believe in is a benevolent god with a plan, and wants what's best?
I'm not asking for a life story or anything of that nature, but just so I could get an idea of what I'm dealing with here, do you think you could give me an example of some of your own life experiences that have given you this conviction? Thanks in advance.
My prayers get answered. I'm not saying I hear voices, I'm saying things happen...often in ways that are too poetically appropriate to possibly be random chance.
I've seen lives changed by faith; I've seen people who were so far down the road to self-destruction that everyone else had given up on them, be brought back from that brink by faith, and live a completely changed life thereafter.
There have been many moments when I could feel God's presence, and his love, as easily as you feel the sun shining on your face. There's no mistaking it if you've ever experienced it.
Heh, by this point I'm sure someone reading is ready to classify me as "mentally ill" so they can dismiss what I've said as religious-fanatic drivel. A soul that has lost the ability to feel the spiritual side to existence usually does not want to hear about it, let alone consider it.
Well, I've already said more than I intended. Thank you again for being polite.
G.
Then again, I'm merely waiting for you, or even any other fool rejecting the proven science of evolution, to state what they do believe happened.
You have some moral objection to posting jokes or something?
What you have primarily failed to comprehend, even though it's been stated repeatedly, is that I don't deny evolution. I believe some form of evolution occurred.
I meant you did evidence to back up your claims or else you wills eem like an fictional authority on evoltion.
We observe that it is sexual isolated from it parents.
We observe its DNA its parents are that of S. vulgaris and S. squalidis.
Is that your argument? Its flimsy.
"The scientist didn't say a word a wanted".
I think the evidence speaks for itself justone.
You investigation? What experiments did you do? What data did you collect? Your an advocate of proper science apparantly, get some evidence for your investigations.
All my BS? Give evidence that it is BS. Just because you say so doesn't make it true.
The odds are very scare that a RAPD test is wrong, thats why the courts use them.
Science gathers evidence to explain natural phenonomon until it gathers so much evidence that it backs a theory beyond all reasonable doubt.
Mathematics can predict the time of the sunrise, because the equation has constants and predictable variables.
Evolution does not have predictable variables and very few constants. Out of the blue, wolves may change its prey, bang, the ecosystem is changed. How can mathematics predict animal behaviour? Can mathematics predict whether you will fall in love with a person or not, or get in a fight, or maybe a flutter of jealously, or predict if you decide to become a vegetarian or not.
Life is too complex and unpredictable for mathematics. That is the mistake creationist math whizzes forget.
They are right when they say life cannot have evolved by chance,
but they do not realise that evolution is governed by nature, not chance.
Can you not recognised that species change, die out, are formed, that life is not static, but slowly ever changing. Static life?
If you wish me to agree with you that it already is pretty distant from one parent - S. squalidis., you have my agreement and I rest my case.Well for a start it already is pretty distant from one parent - S. squalidis. Do you agree?
See the above. I rest my case.S. vulagris, is somewhat compatible in certain conditions very rare in the wild,
but they will get distant geneticall.
Mutuations happen in DNA and have been observed, you agree? Both S. vulgaris and S. eboracensis will mutate. If S. vulgaris and S. eboracensis is not exchanging DNA with each other, they cannot share mutations. The mutations build up and build up independently in each species, their DNA becomes less and less identical until they have 0% of mating even in a lab.
That would be the 3rd time of me repeating my answer. And then you would still go in circles endlessly.Yet you still won't answer the question. Have you something to hide justone? You call us liars and cheats, yet cannot give a reason why we do so. I'm being open ,your being opaque about your views.
It is simple, if we are dishonest we are lying, therefore we have a motive for lying, its not a strawman or an ad-hom, just asking the reason why you slander scientists? Is that so unreasonable?
I have no problem with religion in general, like I said my girlfriend is a Christain. But creationism I cannot stand, because they are putting forth their own agenda in the way of scientific enquiry.
I haven't ignored your statement about mathematics. In mathematics you can predict, in evolution you can't, except maybe the past.
Not my evidence.
Two scientists evidence, passed though the endless barrage of scientific criticism until in finally got published in a scientific journal. If you want to "disprove it" the method is right there for you or anyone to do it Justone.
Posted by justone said:I have been considering mostly YOUR evidence
1.Thank goodness, some leeway. 2. Can't you see how S. erboacensis can be classified as a new species, due to its sexual isolation from its parents?
Sounds like what you are saying is a conspiracy theory to me.
I gave you a concrete reference to them doing math. You have not made a word related to the reference and the facts but went into you usual violent assault on religion of other people. As well you have completely ignored my reply to your statement about evolution and mathematics. For some reason you think that if evolutionists blinded by their hatred to Christians do not notice that, then nobody notices that. I wonder how much Ikari is blinded by his hatred and if he can see what I wanted to demonstrate to him. Ikari, where are you?
Now let’s go to meaningless insults and insinuations evolutionists always use as the main argument:
See, this is just another example of your own inability to comprehend the English language. Please show me one instance where I have stated I do not believe in evolution.
In fact, only a total retard would have missed the numerous times that I mentioned that I personally believe in evolution.
And guess what?
You missed it.
Repeatedly.
You know what that means, right?
Many of them, including your Christian girlfriend with PhD in biology, say that evolution is governed by God, how your statement is more scientific than theirs? Let’s say yours is true – what difference does it make for science? Let’s say theirs is true – what difference does it make for science?
Yes, it means you're writing style is so awful no one who can read english bothers to read your whole posts.
Really? Don't two or three other posters in this very thread point out your flawed reading comprehension skills?
I'd say that the empirical evidence suggests that you need to look inward to solve the problem instead of projecting your own intellectual failings on others.
I see you are still afraid to post your concept of the origin of species.
What do you mean exactly?
I see you are still afraid to post your concept of the origin of species.
More empirical evidence of your inability to comprehend English.
What part of "I believe in Evolution" led you to the conclusion that I am fearful of saying that I believe in evolution?
You haven't said what it is you believe in. do you believe in Evolution by ISP, or the theory of evolution by natural selection, which has a scientific and empirical basis?
I kinda figure you're a Sky Pixie kinda of guy.
What you have primarily failed to comprehend, even though it's been stated repeatedly, is that I don't deny evolution. I believe some form of evolution occurred. Since I'm an atheist, I am not trying to promote "god" induced form of evolution like intelligent design either.
I comprehend English just fine.
Some people persist in seeing chance where there is purpose; futility where there is hope, emptiness where there is meaning.
The short answer is yes; the explanation would take a lot of talking and probably be beyond the scope of this thread. I'm not sure you'd be intrested in an extended theological dissertation on "why do bad things happen to good people" or some such.
My prayers get answered. I'm not saying I hear voices, I'm saying things happen...often in ways that are too poetically appropriate to possibly be random chance.
I've seen lives changed by faith; I've seen people who were so far down the road to self-destruction that everyone else had given up on them, be brought back from that brink by faith, and live a completely changed life thereafter.
Again, the empirical evidence strongly suggests otherwise.
Yes, the empirical evidence conclusively shows you're unwilling to state your beliefs.
P.S. Your use of the plural pronoun "us" also shows you fail at arithmetic. =
Then she should turn her PhD in. The theory of evolution is quite clear that there's no need for imaginary sky pixies "designing" things to explain the diversity of life on this planet.
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