Evidence that the climate scam is collapsing

[JBG]

I am on the left. Why would I pretend to love Reagan, who financed mass murder in Central America, who praised a Guatemalan leader convicted of genocide? Sure Reagan looks better than Trump. So does Mussolini.

I am on the Left, butt I voted for Reagan in 1984 (not 1980 when I voted for Carter, who was my first vote in 1976).

 

[JBG]

I just know that the glacier I used to hike in the 80's and 90's is now a meadow.


When a denier can explain how that happened without a climatic impact I'll start listening. But when the results are in your face.......

Can an alarmist explain how ice melts in a glass? Remember we've left an Ice Age and are now in an inter-glacial period. The end of the Ice Age and the Younger Dryas happened without the help of ICE engines.

 

[longview]

I don't like fringe sites either, certainly not as "authority." However, isn't the burden of proof and persuasion on the group that wants major, radical and upending changes in the status quo? These are some of the burden-bearing issues:

1. Is there major man-made climate change in progress?
2. If (1) is yes, would any action that we could take conceivably make any difference beyond making us feel good about ourselves?
3. Has any "tipping point" been reached years or centuries ago?
4. Are we producing less GSG's than in the recent past?
5. Why is natural gas not seen as a solution given that it is far less polluting than coal and oil?
6. Why is nuclear not a partial solution?
7. Is there anything that can be done to rectify the "intermittency" of solar and wind power?
8. Are any of the solar and wind solutions fiscally feasible?

Without answers on these questions why are we plunging into an abyss?

I like your list!
5. is interesting because if you run the numbers just switching from coal to natural gas globally for power generation,
would get us close to Net Zero.
6. is a given we should expand Nuclear where we can.
7. and 8. are yes, but we need to wait on market conditions.
The oil companies have already done the research on how to make hydrocarbon fuels from atmospheric CO2,
hydrogen from water, and Electricity from any source. If the source of the electricity is carbon free, then the fuel is carbon neutral.
The problem is that the economic viability level is an oil price of about $96 a barrel sustained.
This will happen in a few years, but not yet.
Several factors will influence this number, but the cost of wholesale electricity is high on the list.
They sold a lot of solar panel systems based on Net metering helping pay for the system, but
net metering is untenable for utilities above a certain percentage of users.
At some point the utilities will stop paying for surplus solar electricity.
This is the point where the refineries can step in and purchase (at a great discount) all the surplus solar electricity,
and store that electricity as transport fuels they will sell.
Perhaps the solar homeowner might get a fuel credit as opposed to a dollar amount?
The future is very bright!

 

[BabaVoss]

Tom Nelson <==== Follow the link to read all about it.

Over 30 items here: Evidence that the climate scam is collapsing

I’ll stick with the actual science, but thanks anyway.

 

[JBG]

4. Conventional vehicles go to a salvage yard and instead of just rotting in the dump somewhere parts are taken from them used to repair and keep other vehicles going you can't do that with a battery pack nobody's ever going to restore one of these because purchasing the battery pack makes it completely unreasonable.

So these electric cars just go to the dump and leak chemicals into the water table. Where is cars made out of steel can actually either have their parts repurposed or recycled.

You are taking away the joy of those with a Fourth Grade civics lesson mentality. Boo hoo.

It's not that I hate the vehicle itself it's that I hate what it means. What it means is the end of your Independence.

You got that right. They tried it with Covid.

 

[JBG]

Calling people a denier, tells us you do not know what it really means. You denigrate people this way.

The tern "denier" comes from Holocaust denial, which is real ever-swamp belief. I think most that use the term "climate denier" would be in good company with "Holocaust deniers" in terms of their prejudices, though they would claim it's just "Zionism" and not Jews they hate.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Joey,
Unfortunately we are in the middle of an unintended Geo Engineering experiment, and it is what is causing the warming since 1978.
From Dimming to Brightening: Decadal Changes in Solar Radiation at Earth's Surface

The problem is we do not know how much dimming happened before 1950.
The dimming was followed by brightening.

The amount of sunlight reaching the surface was measured to increase by 6 Wm-2 between 1992 and 2001.
Our skies will continue to clear, but the clearing is what caused our warming, so limiting CO2 emissions will not likely change much.
Net Zero will happen on it's own, because of market conditions. Oil as a source for fuel will price itself out of the market.
The day it is more profitable for a refinery to make greater profit by making olefins out of Atmospheric CO2, water and electricity,
than from oil, they will choose the greater profits. The synthetic fuels will represent an unlimited energy storage medium,
a way to finely allow solar power to be a dispatchable source of energy. CO2 level growth will stop as the CO2 will be simply recycled.

Hi longview,

I love the narrative, even though it is obviously wrong. Let's keep using fossil fuels because we can make it cheap from the waste it produces when we burn it. You don't think this sounds the least a little bit odd?


Joey.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

I've not seen the alleged claims from MTG so can't comment.

Hi uncensored,

Oh, no worries, was just the usual nonsense you expect from a trumpy.

Joey

 

[longview]

Hi longview,

I love the narrative, even though it is obviously wrong. Let's keep using fossil fuels because we can make it cheap from the waste it produces when we burn it. You don't think this sounds the least a little bit odd?


Joey.

Not odd but a path to true sustainable energy, or at least until something better comes along.
Also we would not be using fossil fuels any longer. We would be using hydrocarbons as an energy storage
device, but that is what nature evolved as a way to store energy.
Ammonia is also an option, but we lack the infrastructure and demand to use Ammonia as a fuel.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Not odd but a path to true sustainable energy, or at least until something better comes along.
Also we would not be using fossil fuels any longer. We would be using hydrocarbons as an energy storage
device, but that is what nature evolved as a way to store energy.
Ammonia is also an option, but we lack the infrastructure and demand to use Ammonia as a fuel.

Hi longview,

Neh, in the long run a solid state system will win over a mechanical solution.

Virtually all issues we are facing are temporary. Development is going fast. New technologies come and go. Some will stick and improve what we have. Always been that way. Always will.

In 40- years from now you will find people buying a petrol car for the same reasons they buy record players today. They would need to spend a lot more money though, but than they get a beautiful piece of history. And do you remember the first CD Players? Do you remember many people complaining that the sound quality was not as good as records? Records went, and CDs came. And went also, but that's a different story.

Joey

 

[CLAX1911]

You are taking away the joy of those with a Fourth Grade civics lesson mentality. Boo hoo.


You got that right. They tried it with Covid.

I don't think it's the government it's necessarily they'll definitely take what control they can it's the auto manufacturers. They want to be the source of everything. I have quite a bit of independence with my vehicle because I can repair it. I worked for quite a long time as a mechanic see other people's cars so they had independent they can come to me they didn't have to go to Ford or Volkswagen.

 

[The Brad Dad]

So these electric cars just go to the dump and leak chemicals into the water table. Where is cars made out of steel can actually either have their parts repurposed or recycled.

Electric cars are made out of steel

 

[CLAX1911]

Even charging off of grid power, they are less to operate by the mile.

No they're not because you're not going to get the 30 years out of it you'll be lucky if you get 10. I've seen combustion cards that are 100 years old that still run you'll never find that with an electric car especially the way they're building them now it's weird it's not worth it to replace the battery.

This is my major complaint with them. If I was a homeowner and I could charge it myself at home that would get rid of the charging problem mostly but I can't replace the battery. Well technical you can but it costs more than the car does. I bought my truck when it was 7 years old you couldn't give me an electric car that old.

Now if you have to pay a charging station, then not so practical. Also not practical if the power goes out for several days.

Yeah I don't know home and I'm betting homeowners insurance for people who charge an electric car at home is going to be high because of the possibility of that vehicle burning your house to Ash.

 

[CLAX1911]

My Camaro is not practical by any means, and only gets half the mileage as my other car.

Have no plans of getting rid of a sweet older Convertible Camaro though, especial;ly since it is getting more valuable as it ages.

Be that as it may that vehicle is still more practical than an the electric car. If you have a misfire change the spark plug, if you have an engine lope you can adjust the carburetor.

If your electric car has a battery that's out of balance you get it the hell out of your house and away from anything you love because it's going to burn it down. And just throw it away because the repair cost is worth more than the vehicle. That's my major complaint the parts are not serviceable. So what that means is you're just going to waste the car. There is absolutely nothing efficient about that.

 

[CLAX1911]

Electric cars are made out of steel

Some of the body is. the battery isn't. That's a third of the weight of the car. And when the car is no longer of use it's a time bomb.

I think I feel a little less negative with electric cars if they didn't integrate the battery in such a way that it's the battery failed the car's just trashed. If there was a way to do maintenance everyone talks about this like it's a good thing it's an awful thing. If you can't do maintenance when it's done it's done.

 

[longview]

Hi longview,

Neh, in the long run a solid state system will win over a mechanical solution.

Virtually all issues we are facing are temporary. Development is going fast. New technologies come and go. Some will stick and improve what we have. Always been that way. Always will.

In 40- years from now you will find people buying a petrol car for the same reasons they buy record players today. They would need to spend a lot more money though, but than they get a beautiful piece of history. And do you remember the first CD Players? Do you remember many people complaining that the sound quality was not as good as records? Records went, and CDs came. And went also, but that's a different story.

Joey

Maybe! It depends if batteries get a lot better or not. It is difficult to store electricity.

 

[CLAX1911]

Hi Clax,

• I know some work in slave like conditions, but it does not have to be like that and many mining locations are not like that. The larger EV companies will have to be careful when they source because of this, and they know it. I am not saying there is no issue here, but you are taking it out of proportion.

So instead of $60,000 they'll be $180,000

• Several manufacturers have announced 5 min chargers for about 500km.

They are 100% lying.

• You're argument does not stand anymore. This was announced very recently. Nobody could expect you to know that. But it highlights how fast the technology is changing. And this applies to many of your comments more broadly.

Being able to charge that size of battery that quickly violates the laws of physics. It's Chinese companies making this promise and they are absolutely liars.

• If there is a power outage, you can not get petrol either. Moot point.

Why? We've been able to pump liquid since just after the stone age.

• Exactly! Now we move away from petrol, precisely because something better came along.

Where is this something better a lower than standard vehicle that I have to pay twice the price for and throw it away three times earlier?

• No, they are falsehoods mate. And even when some statements are correct, you produce numbers that are false. You need averages. You can not take a single extreme case and apply it broadly. I am guessing this is how you got to your numbers, but I can't be sure of course. Context is everything.

You believe in the 5 minute charging for 500 km of range. You wouldn't know a falsehood if it smacked you in the face.

• Yes, you have to charge, and as I just highlighted, this is going into the minutes direction now. You also need to put petrol in your tank.

No it's not.

• Yes, you need to find the right charger. Just like you need to find the right petrol. Believe it or not, it's something I always struggle with when I use my wife's motorbike...

What do you mean there's three kinds.

• There are indeed public places where charges can be more expensive than petrol. However, when charged at home during off peak hours,

So you have to own the house with a street parking so I already were talking half a million dollars.

• you will be 2-10 times cheaper! And since most people use their cars from home/work, you will soon see that people can charge at work as well.

And all of this infrastructure for all of this massive amount of power that's just going to be generated by fairy dust and magical unicorns is just going to appear one day?

• Probably as a benefit from the company.

Extremely doubtful.

• Over which you than have to pay tax because it will be considered income. This is where it is all going to mate.

Maybe in 150 years. It won't be in my grandchildren's lifetime.

Sorry man, you gotta let go of the past.

I'm not the one insisting on driving something invented in 1840 that was replaced by something Superior in 1901

Stop hanging on so desperately.

If this was better you would need proselytize it tell me things that I know for a fact or not true and can't possibly be true.

Express your love for cars instead by keeping and maintaining a beautiful petrol car. We need them. And I mean that. We need to keep them.

That's all there is.

They will become rare.

Perhaps in 150 years

And we will all look back at them and miss them. Probably much like I look at a classic today. You just love cars soo much I think, you hate to see them go.

I hate wasting money

Joey

 

[CLAX1911]

Hi Clax,

Want to revisit Covid?

So China killed millions of people so we blame Donald Trump?

Again how is he like Mussolini how many millions of people did he kill?

Joey

 

[CLAX1911]

Hi Clax,

Yes, there are still points where EVs can, must, and will improve. But considering it took Ford 120 years to get where we are today, the progress in EVs is incredibly fast. Some of your points even have some validty today, but not for long. EVs are here to stay and petrol is out. Sad, but true.

Let me focus on the numbers.

1 - The decline of a battery for a Tesla is expected to be 10-20% over a 15 year period. Where do you get the 75% from? The only thing that comes close to that are batteries that are NOT designed for EV usage.

2 - Less moving parts = less tear and wear. The risks are undeniable. However, computers can manage the risk of a battery getting overcharged, but can not stop you from causing a fire with petrol. It is way safer. As a matter of fact, less EVs end up on fire than petrol cars does. According to Tesla by a factor of 11, but I can see the conflict of interest there too.

3 - The metals for a battery have to be refined one time to make a battery. The battery can than be used over and over again for many years, provided the battery has been maintained properly. In turn, every full tank of petrol needs to be refined. Every full tank needs to be refined. Sure you're gonna argue that the electricity is produced by gas fired power plants and it is there fore only moving the problem from one place to an other place. Well, don't, because it is not a point. Just like it will take 20 years to convince you that your car is gonna be replaced by an EV, it will also take the electricity farmers 20 years to switch from Dirty to Clean.

4 - The intrinsic rest value of an EV is significantly higher than that of a petrol car. A scrap car is valued at about 0.25$ per kilo. This is the same for petrol cars and EVs. However, a petrol car may have a catalytic converter. Worth up to 300USD. And EVs have a battery pack which is worth a several thousand

5 - Umicore is one of the biggest recyclers for this in the world. The turn over 3.5B per year and have a profit of about 500M per year. The accept scrap and take out all the metals from gold to nickel. Been there once. Had to do an inspection on a Platinum plant.

6 - Less moving parts is good thing. And again, despite reported incidents, EVs are still saver than petrol, also when it comes to fire risk.

7 - They are about 300-500kg heavier than petrol cars. Not 1,500kg. Yes it takes more energy to accelerate a heavier car, but this is the beauty with electric cars, they produce electricity when you slow down. Why am I highlighting this? Because most of fuel consumption is caused by acceleration and not maintaining speed. When a petrol car slows down all this energy is dissipated into heat in the brakes. In an EV this in turned back into electricity and put back into the battery. Hence making the EV way more efficient than a petrol car. And though a heavier car does indeed require more energy to even maintain its speed, the increase in energy consumption when adding 300-500kg weight is negligible compared to accelerating and braking.

1. Tesla lies about everything. That is the least trustworthy car manufacturer outside of China.
2. It has hundreds of millions of moving parts. Do you know how you charge your battery? You move electrons from the cathode to the anode. If we're not going to look at individual electrons is moving parts, will look at the battery pack there are 7000 parts in it. And they get wear and tear. It's not that they don't need maintenance, it's that you're ****ed if they do
3. The battery is not the equivalent to fuel it's the equivalent to an engine the fuel would spent at the power plant. And every time you charge and discharge the battery it degrades. In my experience with batteries they have a short lifespan. You can't do maintenance on it. It's disposable.
4. Then why is it all original 1990s petrol car worth more than a 15-year-old electric car?
5 recycling costs more than manufacturing from well materials I don't care what any company says they're blowing smoke up your ass.
6. Not when you have a 7000 parts that are degrading simply by existing. Moving parts can be maintenanced. That's what makes a machine last longer.
7. I drive pickup trucks. yes they're like 2,000 lb more. The heat loss for electric cars comes in transmission of electricity through power lines. It's not better. Just that the cost is baked into your electric bill.

 

[CLAX1911]

So not only you do not understand how an electric vehicle works

By which you mean I don't buy into the hipe.

(which is totally fine, I mean why would you right?), the numbers you used are also completely wrong.

In some narrow scope comparing two very different things which is more about dishonesty than it is about what I know.

Yes, everything you say has some truth in it. Nothing stands and changes the game at large.

What I'm saying is factual

And than you say something I can relate to, though you throw it on EVs, but I think it is more general. I think it is a damn shame that you can not fix your own car anymore.

You can't fix your own car because you don't know how I can. I worked as a mechanic for 20 years.

The electric car is a manufacturer's wet dream because there won't be a mechanic in existence that can fix it that's the point it's not to be futuristic it's not to be green it's to **** you out of money. And they sell this crap to you by just pretending they'll recycle it that's how they got you to drink water out of a plastic bottle. It's the same scam that's been pulled on you that you fell for before. Meanwhile we have entire Islands made out of plastic bottles.

Old ones, yes. New ones, not soo much.

Because you don't know what you're doing.

And that is a reason to get a nice old car. For me anyways. But that was not the discussion here

Yes the discussion is bend over and hand your money eternally to auto manufacturers where they're going to try and use the law to make sure that you're their little pay pig.

Let's put it this way I would sooner ride a horse and buggy then give that swine penny for their rape mobile you can grab your ankles has bend over and say yes Daddy give it to me hard I'm so sophisticated that's your prerogative.

I don't need to feel that sophisticated that badly.

Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

By which you mean I don't buy into the hipe.

In some narrow scope comparing two very different things which is more about dishonesty than it is about what I know.

What I'm saying is factual

You can't fix your own car because you don't know how I can. I worked as a mechanic for 20 years.

The electric car is a manufacturer's wet dream because there won't be a mechanic in existence that can fix it that's the point it's not to be futuristic it's not to be green it's to **** you out of money. And they sell this crap to you by just pretending they'll recycle it that's how they got you to drink water out of a plastic bottle. It's the same scam that's been pulled on you that you fell for before. Meanwhile we have entire Islands made out of plastic bottles.

Because you don't know what you're doing.

Yes the discussion is bend over and hand your money eternally to auto manufacturers where they're going to try and use the law to make sure that you're their little pay pig.

Let's put it this way I would sooner ride a horse and buggy then give that swine penny for their rape mobile you can grab your ankles has bend over and say yes Daddy give it to me hard I'm so sophisticated that's your prerogative.

I don't need to feel that sophisticated that badly.

Hi Clax,

Fascinating how people can spend so much time writing without actually contributing anything. It's like you talk an hour in 5 minutes without saying anything.

Joey

 

[Volunteer]

You have to waste up to an hour if you get to a charger that you can get right to to refuel it to make it home.

We eat lunch, or dinner, on long road trips, for an hour while our EV charges to 100%. No problem.

It can't work in a power outage the other than using up what little range it has.

Our EV charges during utility power outages because we have rooftop solar electricity. No problem.

it's more expensive than fueling that's not a falsehood that's a fact.

Not true for us. We save over $200 per month in gasoline costs.