Evidence that the climate scam is collapsing (1 Viewer)

[CLAX1911]

I like electric cars, but do not see them ready for mass public consumption. You on the other hand seem to have no tolerance for them.

I remember hearing the story about the Hyundai that dented its battery case and was totaled. In the population is they are disposable what time use items.

It sounds like a way for a car manufacturer to take 50 to 100 Grand from you **** you over. It's hard with an engine and it transmission can be maintenance and repaired and kept on the road for decades. An electric car with an unbalanced battery is not just garbage it's a hazard and you can't do squat about that.

What's more efficient having a car you can keep for 15 years or something that you may get about 4 to 6 years out of before it's utterly useless?

 

[Lord of Planar]

I remember hearing the story about the Hyundai that dented its battery case and was totaled. In the population is they are disposable what time use items.

It sounds like a way for a car manufacturer to take 50 to 100 Grand from you **** you over. It's hard with an engine and it transmission can be maintenance and repaired and kept on the road for decades. An electric car with an unbalanced battery is not just garbage it's a hazard and you can't do squat about that.

What's more efficient having a car you can keep for 15 years or something that you may get about 4 to 6 years out of before it's utterly useless?

I agree. they are too expensive to maintain for most people. That is why I say they are not ready for mass public consumption.

The fact we need to subsidize people to but them is all the proof necessary.

 

[CLAX1911]

I agree. they are too expensive to maintain for most people.

And there's also the battery life cycle every time you charge the battery you get less and less out of it until the car is absolutely unusable and I'm betting this happens between 6 and 10 year mark.

There is no maintenance for that the manufacturers make sure you cannot maintain this. It is so that you don't get to sell it and the manufacturer doesn't have to compete with its older products.

I see this is predominantly a scam by manufacturers to squeeze more money out of people.

That is why I say they are not ready for mass public consumption.

i think they're at the amount of public consumption they'll ever be it is an enthusiast car. These are generally never widely owned by the average person.

The fact we need to subsidize people to but them is all the proof necessary.

There are all manner of things that are subsidized but there's quite a lot of money from the government going to people who buy electric cars but really manufacturers of electric cars. Notice how Elon Musk lost his $600 subsidy erased a price of his product $600. It's not really a subsidy it's giving money to the manufacturer.

 

[longview]

We would have CO2 from any such conversions from fossil fuels. Even the hydrogen reforming creates CO2. Fuel cells from CH4 from natural gas could be efficient like hydrogen fuel cells if they could be made to operate at the same room temperatures. Would not need the reforming process. If we could use fuel cell for more complex hydrocarbons, the pollutants from using fossil fuels would be completely manageable.

I know but Bloom’s plan was to market the boxes as a green alternative, and from the emissions standpoint it is not much different than a heat engine.

 

[longview]

Why bother just use the gas lead to run an engine and turn the wheels? She's like you're making a lot of pointless steps which every one of them loses efficiency.

Yeah why?

Why?

If this was possible probably fractures would have done it already.

Well the Camry hybrid already gets 50 mpg, and if you move the 20% Carnot efficiency of the heat engine to 60% from the fuel cell, that efficiency gain would improve the mpg above the hybrid.

 

[CLAX1911]

Well the Camry hybrid already gets 50 mpg, and if you move the 20% Carnot efficiency of the heat engine to 60% from the fuel cell, that efficiency gain would improve the mpg above the hybrid.

If you can get a hundred miles to the gallon without compromising on acceleration and not having to recharge it but with fuel you could be a billionaire if you sell this technology to somebody I'm heading their willing to pay top dollar for.

Every car manufacturer wants to make a car that's extremely efficient. They have every incentive to do that. So if you know how to do this why are you sitting on this?

 

[longview]

If you can get a hundred miles to the gallon without compromising on acceleration and not having to recharge it but with fuel you could be a billionaire if you sell this technology to somebody I'm heading their willing to pay top dollar for.

Every car manufacturer wants to make a car that's extremely efficient. They have every incentive to do that. So if you know how to do this why are you sitting on this?

All the pieces of the technology are ready, it will just take someone bringing them all together.

 

[CLAX1911]

All the pieces of the technology are ready,

And Carmen New Hampshire is you just aren't doing it because???

it will just take someone bringing them all together.

If you know how to do that I'm serious you could be a billionaire.

If that's the Crux of the whole thing there's probably a problem with it.

 

[longview]

And Carmen New Hampshire is you just aren't doing it because???

If you know how to do that I'm serious you could be a billionaire.

If that's the Crux of the whole thing there's probably a problem with it.

It would take more than what I could do but Toyota already has a fuel cell hybrid, and steam reformation is a known technology.

 

[CLAX1911]

It would take more than what I could do but Toyota already has a fuel cell hybrid, and steam reformation is a known technology.

What you're suggesting is that a car essentially has a hydrogen unit on it. Not worked at refineries and I'm not exactly 100% about what goes on there I'm just a welder, what hydrogen units require a vast amount of energy and they're huge. They have to be made out of exotic materials and that might be why you're not seeing electric cars with hydrogen fuel cells and their own hydrogen unit in frame. With these exotic materials it might if it can scale down still make the car cost about $500,000. I've worked with some of those materials before and we're talking 30 grand for six foot piece of line.

 

[longview]

What you're suggesting is that a car essentially has a hydrogen unit on it. Not worked at refineries and I'm not exactly 100% about what goes on there I'm just a welder, what hydrogen units require a vast amount of energy and they're huge. They have to be made out of exotic materials and that might be why you're not seeing electric cars with hydrogen fuel cells and their own hydrogen unit in frame. With these exotic materials it might if it can scale down still make the car cost about $500,000. I've worked with some of those materials before and we're talking 30 grand for six foot piece of piece of line.

Toyota has a fuel cell hybrid that carries several kg of hydrogen on board, but hydrogen is difficult to carry. I am thinking of the next step.

 

[JBG]

Tom Nelson <==== Follow the link to read all about it.

Over 30 items here: Evidence that the climate scam is collapsing

Climate change science has always been based on confirmation bias. It is very similar to a religion. The only difference between it and religion is that religion has constructive uses in climate science is almost totally bogus.

 

[longview]

Climate change science has always been based on confirmation bias. It is very similar to a religion. The only difference between it and religion is that religion has constructive uses in climate science is almost totally bogus.

The people who wish to control the masses would disagree with you about the value of the climate sciences as a social control mechanism!

 

[CLAX1911]

Toyota has a fuel cell hybrid that carries several kg of hydrogen on board, but hydrogen is difficult to carry. I am thinking of the next step.

But you are talking about breaking the hydrogen atom out of the hydrocarbon molecule right?

I know of two ways to do that. Electrolysis and Thermocycling. Electrolysis may functionally break hydrocarbons apart in petrochemicals but that would be extremely dangerous. You would have to bring the pH of the petrochemical down low enough to where you could do electrolysis and the vapor alone from these things is explosive so breaking it down to a more explosive component seems like a bad idea within the frame of a car that a teenager would drive.

That's assuming you have the electricity needed to create the galvanic cell.

Sorry I think the only option would be Thermocycling. So essentially you have a hydrogen unit within the frame of your car. The only components you can make this out of are nickel alloys like hastaway you might as well by about three or four Bugattis it'll be cheaper. And let's not even mention the waste products. When you break the hydrogen out of the carbon what do you do with the carbon. You would have to dispose of this.

I don't think this is feasible for a car now if you went to a hydrogen unit that existed to sell hydrogen to cars that used it that would be different.

 

[longview]

But you are talking about breaking the hydrogen atom out of the hydrocarbon molecule right?

I know of two ways to do that. Electrolysis and Thermocycling. Electrolysis may functionally break hydrocarbons apart in petrochemicals but that would be extremely dangerous. You would have to bring the pH of the petrochemical down low enough to where you could do electrolysis and the vapor alone from these things is explosive so breaking it down to a more explosive component seems like a bad idea within the frame of a car that a teenager would drive.

That's assuming you have the electricity needed to create the galvanic cell.

Sorry I think the only option would be Thermocycling. So essentially you have a hydrogen unit within the frame of your car. The only components you can make this out of are nickel alloys like hastaway you might as well by about three or four Bugattis it'll be cheaper. And let's not even mention the waste products. When you break the hydrogen out of the carbon what do you do with the carbon. You would have to dispose of this.

I don't think this is feasible for a car now if you went to a hydrogen unit that existed to sell hydrogen to cars that used it that would be different.

As I said this is where things are now, but where they could end up. I am by no means a chemist, but have read that small
steam reformers are possible. I know they have been doing this on an industrial scale since the 1950's.

 

[Volunteer]

There are all manner of things that are subsidized but there's quite a lot of money from the government going to people who buy electric cars

Electric cars should not need subsidies. If Congress eliminated the subsidies/supports for fossil fuels, like those listed below, we'd be lucky to have $6.50/gal at the pump instead of the artificially low, government controlled, prices we now have.

Why are there no proposals for a transition to levelling the playing field amongst energy sources and, eventually, to free market energy?

Intangible Drilling Costs Deduction (26 U.S. Code § 263. for decades
Percentage Depletion (26 U.S. Code § 613
Foreign Tax Credit (26 U.S. Code § 901. on
Master Limited Partnerships (Internal Revenue Code § 7704. (most are fossil fuel companies) for decades
Domestic Manufacturing Deduction (IRC §199)
DOE Advanced Fossil Loan Programs Office
Between 2010 and 2017, the Department of Energy provided $2.66 billion to support 794 advanced fossil energy research and development projects
United States Export-Import Bank $14.8 billion dollars in grants and loans for 78 projects in the petroleum sector (2001 – 2018).

A 2017 study by the consulting firm Management Information Services, Inc., in a report to the Nuclear Energy Institute, estimated the total historical federal subsidies for various energy sources over the years 1950–2016. The study found that oil, natural gas, and coal received $414 billion, $140 billion, and $112 billion (2015 dollars), respectively, or 65% of total energy subsidies over that period. Oil, natural gas, and coal benefited most from percentage depletion allowances and other tax-based subsidies.

 

[CLAX1911]

Electric cars should not need subsidies. If Congress eliminated the subsidies/supports for fossil fuels, like those listed below, we'd be lucky to have $6.50/gal at the pump instead of the artificially low, government controlled, prices we now have.

That isn't subsidies for the car a subsidies for energy the equivalent to that would be eliminating subsidies for electricity. And if we eliminated subsidies for electricity you'd probably be paying a lot more for that.

Why are there no proposals for a transition to levelling the playing field amongst energy sources and, eventually, to free market energy?

Intangible Drilling Costs Deduction (26 U.S. Code § 263. for decades
Percentage Depletion (26 U.S. Code § 613
Foreign Tax Credit (26 U.S. Code § 901. on
Master Limited Partnerships (Internal Revenue Code § 7704. (most are fossil fuel companies) for decades
Domestic Manufacturing Deduction (IRC §199)
DOE Advanced Fossil Loan Programs Office
Between 2010 and 2017, the Department of Energy provided $2.66 billion to support 794 advanced fossil energy research and development projects
United States Export-Import Bank $14.8 billion dollars in grants and loans for 78 projects in the petroleum sector (2001 – 2018).

Nobody was talking about subsidizing energy they were talking about subsidizing car manufacturers for selling electric cars.

Electricity is subsidized some of it at orders of magnitude more than petrochemical.

A 2017 study by the consulting firm Management Information Services, Inc., in a report to the Nuclear Energy Institute, estimated the total historical federal subsidies for various energy sources over the years 1950–2016. The study found that oil, natural gas, and coal received $414 billion, $140 billion, and $112 billion (2015 dollars), respectively, or 65% of total energy subsidies over that period. Oil, natural gas, and coal benefited most from percentage depletion allowances and other tax-based subsidies.

Once again you're talking about energy not the cars nobody is subsidized to buy a car with an engine and transmission in it.

Remember fossil fuels are used to generate electricity so electric car energy is subsidized sometimes just as much sometimes orders of magnitude more.

 

[Volunteer]

That isn't subsidies for the car a subsidies for energy the equivalent to that would be eliminating subsidies for electricity. And if we eliminated subsidies for electricity you'd probably be paying a lot more for that.
Nobody was talking about subsidizing energy they were talking about subsidizing car manufacturers for selling electric cars.
Electricity is subsidized some of it at orders of magnitude more than petrochemical.
Once again you're talking about energy not the cars nobody is subsidized to buy a car with an engine and transmission in it.
Remember fossil fuels are used to generate electricity so electric car energy is subsidized sometimes just as much sometimes orders of magnitude more.

Yes, end subsidies for electric cars and end subsidies for nuclear and coal powered plants that generate electricity. No doubt, prices will rise but it is not the taxpayers' responsibility to prop those companies up! If ended, taxpayers could save up to a hundred billion dollars per year (IMO) if we let the market decide.

Where are the conservatives here???

 

[CLAX1911]

Yes, end subsidies for electric cars and end subsidies for nuclear and coal powered plants that generate electricity. No doubt, prices will rise but it is not the taxpayers' responsibility to prop those companies up!

So why would companies need propping up for electric cars. I posit nobody would buy them if they didn't

If ended, taxpayers could save up to a hundred billion dollars per year (IMO) if we let the market decide.

I'm absolutely for ending all subsidies immediately that would put wind and solar out of business.

Where are the conservatives here???

Yo

 

[Michael Cole]

The interesting part about this is who's doing the scam. This was something I was really puzzled about but I got an answer. It's countries who are interested in our energy and are sustainability failing.

What? "Countries" are free to buy all our energy they want. We export energy. What on earth do our energy reserves have to do with scientific findings on climate? How does climate science provide an advantage to these "countries" with regard to energy?

 

[Michael Cole]

But the idea that they save energy is ridiculous you just burn the energy somewhere else.

Well, no, the idea that EV's are more efficient is proven.

Musk depends on it. Gonna sell him a bunch of semis. The trucks are getting <1.7kWh per mile.

https://insideevs.com/news/629629/tesla-semi-unreal-efficiency/

Is Musk lying?

Did you actually have to spend a little more energy because they're typically heavier.

...or maybe you're just wrong.

 

[Michael Cole]

EVs are always heavier and require new batteries every two years on average. Producing these batteries is energy intensive.

Tesla warranties its batteries for 8 years.

Tesla also uses renewables in its battery production. The roof on Gigafactory 1 is covered in solar panels. The new semi plant will have rooftop solar installed as well.

Redwood Materials has developed a process that utilizes the remaining energy in "dead" batteries to recycle the elements.

Smart people have been working on this for years.

 

[Michael Cole]

What's more efficient having a car you can keep for 15 years or something that you may get about 4 to 6 years out of before it's utterly useless?

 

[Michael Cole]

emember fossil fuels are used to generate electricity so electric car energy is subsidized sometimes just as much sometimes orders of magnitude more.

And EV's utilize this energy much more efficiently than ICE. The cost of gas/diesel fluctuates, but the amount of energy needed to propel an EV is much less than that burned in an ICE vehicle. Whether subsidized or not, EV's are energy conserving compared to ICE.

 

[CLAX1911]

What? "Countries"

Whoever could it be?

are free to buy all our energy they want. We export energy. What on earth do our energy reserves have to do with scientific findings on climate? How does climate science provide an advantage to these "countries" with regard to energy?