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Evidence for the Bible / God [W536; 634]

Oh yes, skeptics create problems by asking questions that True Believers often have no rational answer for

Most of your alleged "problems" and questions center around an absurd notion that the Gospels cannot possibly be complementary. To you guys its "either/or" this Gospel account of that Gospel account. That's why the Harmony of the Gospel accounts is so offensive to you. It blows you guys right out of the water and relegates your arguments to the waste basket for lack of credibility.
 
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More evidence that supports the Bible (Book of Acts)

"the historical and archaeological evidence supported Luke’s 1st Century authorship and historical reliability:
“(There are) reasons for placing the author of Acts among the historians of the first rank” (Sir William Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveler and the Roman Citizen, p. 4).


- See more at: A Brief Sample of Archaeology Corroborating the Claims of the New Testament | Cold Case Christianity

and the supernatural story's in Luke are shown to be true because of this how?
 
Evidence for the Bible / God

Critics claim there is no evidence for God or the Bible / New Testament. Many scholars have been refuting that idea for centuries, noting archaeological evidence, fulfilled Messianic prophecies, and so on.

This thread is for debate on those issues.

p.s. This thread is being created again because we can't argue for the existence or non-existence of God in the religion forum. Here in the philosophy forum we can.
That's what this whole sub-forum is for. Threads are for specific issues.

What spicific issue did you want to talk about?
 
That's what this whole sub-forum is for. Threads are for specific issues.

What spicific issue did you want to talk about?

Evidence for God and/or the Bible.

Got any?
 
I'm not going to spend a day addressing your vast laundry list of nonsensical claims. If you have one you think is special let's see it. But when you dredge up a list of them forget it. Playing a numbers game to try to bolster your argument isn't working for you.




<yawn>

Geisler is right on the money when it comes to Mithra.

Mithraic mysteries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And your game of "shooting the messenger" like you're also doing with Ronald Nash isn't working for you either.


One other thing: Your pagan myth religions (and you know they are myths, correct?) don't have the quality of eyewitness testimony that we see in the New Testament. In the New Testament we're dealing with real people in history. You don't have that quality with your Mithra myth. Another chink in your armor.

Your recycled pagan myths are no different, and the "eye-witnesses" are a lie.
 
More evidence that supports the Bible (Book of Acts)

"the historical and archaeological evidence supported Luke’s 1st Century authorship and historical reliability:
“(There are) reasons for placing the author of Acts among the historians of the first rank” (Sir William Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveler and the Roman Citizen, p. 4).


- See more at: A Brief Sample of Archaeology Corroborating the Claims of the New Testament | Cold Case Christianity

The Bible cannot support the Bible.
 
Or for crying out loud. Out of the billions of Christians on Earth, you're going to single out one or two fanatics as an illustration of what all Christians do? I'm not even going to dignify that with a rebuttal because anybody with intellectual honesty will know that is as bogus as trying to say that because some parents parent badly, all parents are bad or because some school teachers suck at teaching all teachers are incompetent or because some doctors err, all doctors are guilty of malpractice.

You think that the use of missionary expeditions is rare in Christian groups?

You think that the arm touching is unique to one preacher?

I cite your constant repetition of the same non replies as an example of you convincing yourself by the same sort of process where your objective is to get to the mental feeling of being separate from the general "sinful" society around you.
 
Evidence for God and/or the Bible.

Got any?

No and unfortunately, neither do you, you keep proving that over and over again.
 
You think that the use of missionary expeditions is rare in Christian groups?

You think that the arm touching is unique to one preacher?

I cite your constant repetition of the same non replies as an example of you convincing yourself by the same sort of process where your objective is to get to the mental feeling of being separate from the general "sinful" society around you.

Okay whatever. I choose to stay on topic and this not only is non sequitur and absurd, it is off topic. So do have a good day.
 
No and unfortunately, neither do you, you keep proving that over and over again.

That's stupid. This thread is full of evidences for God and/or the Bible that I and others have presented. But you'll have to open your eyes first to see them.
 
That's stupid. This thread is full of evidences for God and/or the Bible that I and others have presented. But you'll have to open your eyes first to see them.

???????????????????...

Eyes wide open. No empirical evidence.

You are using the very instrument, which makes a claim god exists because the author says that god commanded or inspired the author to make the claim, which is not empirical evidence, to support your claim. In other words...your making circular argument which is founded on hearsay by a human being claiming that a supernatural being exists.
 
???????????????????...

Eyes wide open. No empirical evidence.

You are using the very instrument, which makes a claim god exists because the author says that god commanded or inspired the author to make the claim, which is not empirical evidence, to support your claim. In other words...your making circular argument which is founded on hearsay by a human being claiming that a supernatural being exists.

Nope. We've also posted extra-Biblical evidences which corroborate various persons, places, and events in the Bible. So you're mistaken.
 
Nope. We've also posted extra-Biblical evidences which corroborate various persons, places, and events in the Bible. So you're mistaken.

Nope...not at all mistaken. You are still making a circular argument.
 
Nope. We've also posted extra-Biblical evidences which corroborate various persons, places, and events in the Bible. So you're mistaken.


Yes, you continue to post "extra-Biblical evidence" which only originates with theologians and scholars who have religiously determined biases.

Here's a somewhat lengthy excerpt from an actual academic on just some of the problems to be encountered when determining just the dates of Biblical texts, much less verifying actions as depicted in those texts.
Ignatian Vexation

Last entry here I already mentioned one of the issues that came up: my stumbling into several muddles in New Testament studies that I thought had been reasonably resolved by now. Many issues I thought were cut-and-dried are actually mired in complexity, and my research in these areas has absorbed far more time than it should have. The two most annoying examples of this (though not the only ones) are in dating the contents of the New Testament and identifying their authorship and editorial history. There is no consensus on either ...
<snip>
In other words, not only is there no consensus, but there are dozens of positions, and arguments for each are elaborate and vast. It was only after over a month of wasting countless hours attempting to pursue these matters to some sort of condensable conclusion that I realized this was a fool's errand. I have changed strategy and will attempt some sort of broader, simpler approach to the issues occupying my chapter on this, though exactly what that will be I am still working out. It will involve, however, a return to what historians actually do in other fields, which New Testament scholars seem to have gotten away from in their zeal to make sense of data that's basically screwed in every conceivable way. For when it comes to establishing the basic parameters of core documents, I have never met the kind of chaos I've encountered in this field in any other subfield of ancient history I've studied.
<snip>
In most standard references or scholarly discussions, it's routinely claimed that the early Christian martyr Ignatius quotes the Gospel of Matthew in his letters, and Ignatius wrote those letters in the year 107 A.D. (or so), therefore Matthew was written before 107 A.D. That would be a fine example of establishing what we call a terminus ante quem, "point [in time] before which," the latest year a particular document could have been written. If either premise were a settled fact, that is. Unfortunately, they aren't. Yet typically this little problem isn't mentioned or explained, and these premises are declared in some form as if no one doubted them.

Already I encountered a general muddle even before getting to this particular vexation. In any other field, when historians don't know the exact year a book was written, they determine a terminus post quem ("point after which," also written terminus a quo) and a terminus ante quem ("point before which," also written terminus ad quem) and then conclude the book was written sometime between those two years. And they admit they can't know any more than that, which is something New Testament scholars tend to gloss over.
<snip>
But in New Testament studies, the fact that the evidence only establishes termini for Matthew between A.D. 70 and 130 isn't something you will hear about in the references. Indeed, I say 130 only because the possibility that the earliest demonstrable terminus ante quem for Matthew may be as late as 170 involves a dozen more digressions even lengthier than this entire post.
<snip>
But what about Ignatius? First of all, the year he wrote is not actually known. He doesn't say (which is always odd of Christian letters--real ancient letters were routinely dated). And there is no consensus now, either. Dates from 102 to 117 are still defended by well-qualified scholars, and from what I can tell, any of these are possible. Normally that entails a terminus ante quem of 117, not 107. Until possible dates later than 107 are conclusively refuted, we must accept that the termini for Ignatius are from 102 to 117, so if Ignatius mentions Matthew, that sets a terminus for Matthew of 117, not 107 (because any date up to 117 is possible).

But no, it can't be as simple as that. For yes, of course (as if you didn't see it coming), there is still contention as to whether the letters of Ignatius are even authentic, or which ones are authentic, or whether they have been edited or interpolated, or whether the one datable reference in them (to the reign of Trajan) is inauthentic (and thus Ignatius actually wrote in a different, later reign),and on and on. The concerns are not crank. But sorting through and assessing them all would take months of research. And that's just on this one, entirely, mind-numbingly peripheral issue of the authenticity of the current text of the relevant epistles of Ignatius, all just to establish a terminus ante quem for Matthew!
 
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Yes, you continue to post "extra-Biblical evidence" which only originates with theologians and scholars who have religiously determined biases.

Here's a somewhat lengthy excerpt from an actual academic on just some of the problems to be encountered when determining just the dates of Biblical texts, much less verifying actions as depicted in those texts.

LOL! You link to Richard Carrier. Carrier describes himself as an "Internet infidel." Yep, that's some scholarship, alright.

Carrier gets his head handed to him in this critique.

Responding to Richard Carrier

Carrier is also taken to task in this assessment of his claims:

http://www.tektonics.org/uz/vector01.php

:lamo
 
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