Every Child Left Behind

[repeter]

This horrible bill that was passed by Bush, and the Republican Congress has destroyed the next generation. I am a high school sophomore, and my education has been nearly ruined by the them. From 6th grade, to 8th grade, I took various sections of Algebra 1. I didn't take Algebra 1 in any of them, just parts of it. I took the ACT in 8th grade, and got a 21 Composit Score, with a 20 in English, and a 22 in Math. My 9th grade year was ruined by a counselor who embraced No Child Left Behind, and a teacher who embraced it too. 10 years ago, I would probably be in Calculus, but I'm only in Algebra 2, because I used a cpu program called ALEKS. Every Child Left Behind does exactly that. It holds smart people back, and barely boosts the stupid people who don't want to work up. It's a lose-lose situation. That HAS to end.

 

[StandUpChuck]

A couple of things:

1) You can't let a program, ANY PROGRAM "ruin your education."

2) NCLB has it's issues, but my guess is that the issue you're facing is with the new spiraling math program not NCLB. I agree that it stinks. That's not Bush's program.

3) My son started school after NCLB was enacted, and he's acing algebra. He's in 3rd grade. So clearly isn't not holding him back.

4) Instead of pointing fingers at things you cannot change, you will need to learn how to thrive in an educational system where you have only yourself to rely on. Sure you can work to change NCLB, but stop blaming your math problems on that. You're a smart kid. Figure it out and succeed.

 

[Bodi]

This horrible bill that was passed by Bush, and the Republican Congress has destroyed the next generation. I am a high school sophomore, and my education has been nearly ruined by the them. From 6th grade, to 8th grade, I took various sections of Algebra 1. I didn't take Algebra 1 in any of them, just parts of it. I took the ACT in 8th grade, and got a 21 Composit Score, with a 20 in English, and a 22 in Math. My 9th grade year was ruined by a counselor who embraced No Child Left Behind, and a teacher who embraced it too. 10 years ago, I would probably be in Calculus, but I'm only in Algebra 2, because I used a cpu program called ALEKS. Every Child Left Behind does exactly that. It holds smart people back, and barely boosts the stupid people who don't want to work up. It's a lose-lose situation. That HAS to end.

10.1 Students relate the moral and ethical principles in ancient Greek and Roman philosophy, in Judaism, and in Christianity to the development of Western political thought.
1.
Analyze the similarities and differences in Judeo-Christian and Greco-Roman views of law, reason and faith, and duties of the individual.
2.
Trace the development of the Western political ideas of the rule of law and illegitimacy
of tyranny, using selections from Plato’s Republic and Aristotle’s Politics.
3.
Consider the influence of the U.S. Constitution on political systems in the contemporary
world.

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/histsocscistnd.pdf

If taught correctly, how is NCLB effecting your learning or the content being being taught? NCLB didn't effect my teaching in any way, shape or form. Why is it effecting your learning so horribly? Then curriculum and content of above is part of year 10 history, as you can see, it is diverse and leads to many different types of discussions and lessons. If a teacher meets the different learning styles of students, the possibilities of great lessons is endless. NCLB doesn't effect this in the slightest.

 

[UtahBill]

You will have many teachers with varying skills and teaching methods, most of which will be effective, but some of which will be either better or worse than average. The one constant will be YOUR attitude toward learning. If one of your teachers is marginal, try to transfer to another teacher. If you cannot, put in some personal effort to learn on your own what the teacher is failing to teach well.
History in particular is very poorly taught in most American High schools, and the local school board is to blame. They are too afraid of offending someone, so history gets the big whitewash. Not to worry, in college, that white wash if mostly stripped away. And if that isn't enough, there are plenty of history books out there that tell it how it is, not just how your parents want it to be...

 

[Layla_Z]

10.1 Students relate the moral and ethical principles in ancient Greek and Roman philosophy, in Judaism, and in Christianity to the development of Western political thought.
1.
Analyze the similarities and differences in Judeo-Christian and Greco-Roman views of law, reason and faith, and duties of the individual.
2.
Trace the development of the Western political ideas of the rule of law and illegitimacy
of tyranny, using selections from Plato’s Republic and Aristotle’s Politics.
3.
Consider the influence of the U.S. Constitution on political systems in the contemporary
world.

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/histsocscistnd.pdf

If taught correctly, how is NCLB effecting your learning or the content being being taught? NCLB didn't effect my teaching in any way, shape or form. Why is it effecting your learning so horribly? Then curriculum and content of above is part of year 10 history, as you can see, it is diverse and leads to many different types of discussions and lessons. If a teacher meets the different learning styles of students, the possibilities of great lessons is endless. NCLB doesn't effect this in the slightest.

If NCLB has not affected your teaching than you are lucky. I would assume that up until now you school has made its AYP (average yearly progress). Depending on how that is applied in your state, it won't be long until your school doesn't. From what I understand of how NCLB is applied here, the goal is to get all children in the top two scoring categories on a standardized test. The entire focus is getting children to move from the lower categories to the higher ones. No interest is shown in the students already scoring higher on the test. Each year a district has to have more students move up. There are two big obvious problems. First, you are not seeing if an individual child or group of children improve. You are seeing how this year's 5th grade compares to last year's 5th grade. As any teacher can tell you, each grade is different due to many factors. You can have a group of high achieving students move through and completely mess up the AYP for the classes after them.

The second problem is that by expecting more and more people to move into the top two scoring categories we are expecting that eventually everyone will be above average. As we all know, everyone is not above average. Unless something changes, every public school in the state will fail to meet AYP.

 

[repeter]

If NCLB has not affected your teaching than you are lucky. I would assume that up until now you school has made its AYP (average yearly progress). Depending on how that is applied in your state, it won't be long until your school doesn't. From what I understand of how NCLB is applied here, the goal is to get all children in the top two scoring categories on a standardized test. The entire focus is getting children to move from the lower categories to the higher ones. No interest is shown in the students already scoring higher on the test. Each year a district has to have more students move up. There are two big obvious problems. First, you are not seeing if an individual child or group of children improve. You are seeing how this year's 5th grade compares to last year's 5th grade. As any teacher can tell you, each grade is different due to many factors. You can have a group of high achieving students move through and completely mess up the AYP for the classes after them.

The second problem is that by expecting more and more people to move into the top two scoring categories we are expecting that eventually everyone will be above average. As we all know, everyone is not above average. Unless something changes, every public school in the state will fail to meet AYP.

Yes. I spent 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th grade doing algebra 1. I aced it 3 times out of 4. The fourth time I decided to just ace the CST's. I should have been in Geometry from 7th grade, but the stupid system didn't let me. Theire arguement was, "everyone else is doing it, so you should too." That really pissed me off, because everyone is different. Generalization is a sin, and holding back gifted individuals while "bringing up" the people who don't want to come to school and study....thats plain stupid. I personally find that those birghter people will have more of an impact then any of those lol level idiots. If you really are going for the greater good, then those smat people will achieve it, while the idiots won't do anything but work in minimum wage level jobs.

 

[StandUpChuck]

Yes. I spent 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th grade doing algebra 1. I aced it 3 times out of 4. The fourth time I decided to just ace the CST's. I should have been in Geometry from 7th grade, but the stupid system didn't let me. Theire arguement was, "everyone else is doing it, so you should too." That really pissed me off, because everyone is different. Generalization is a sin, and holding back gifted individuals while "bringing up" the people who don't want to come to school and study....thats plain stupid. I personally find that those birghter people will have more of an impact then any of those lol level idiots. If you really are going for the greater good, then those smat people will achieve it, while the idiots won't do anything but work in minimum wage level jobs.

You lost me at "idiot."

Your problem isn't NCLB. It's that your school doesn't have a gifted program or that it does and you don't qualify. I'd also venture a guess that arrogance plays a part in your inability to get what you need out of the system.

If we didn't have people in society willing to do the grunt work, nothing else would get done. Those so-called "idiots" paved the way for your education and many of them probably died for your freedoms. Lose the arrogance, kid.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Your problem isn't NCLB. It's that your school doesn't have a gifted program or that it does and you don't qualify. I'd also venture a guess that arrogance plays a part in your inability to get what you need out of the system.

That arrogance is a symptom of not getting what he needs out of the system-- it's a consequence of being trapped year after year with your inferiors while your intellectual development is stagnating because the school is worried about your "social development" and all of the school's resources are going to the sports teams and a handful of drooling vegetables.

I know that arrogance all too well. But to blame his arrogance for the fact that the school is willfully neglecting both his intellectual needs is despicable.

Then again, that attitude appears to be all too common throughout our entire educational system. Anything to avoid admitting that some students are simply more capable of learning than others.

 

[UtahBill]

Sometimes it is up to the parents to see that the child gets what is needed.
Go talk to the teachers if the kid is getting "left behind" while the schools cater to the merely average.
One of our son's teachers moved him to a seat next to a shelf full of encyclopedias, allowed him to read whatever when he got his work done early, and sometimes asked him to help a slower kid.....

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Sometimes it is up to the parents to see that the child gets what is needed.

Then why have public schooling at all? We see to it that everyone else gets their academic needs met; why do we make an exception only for the most capable?

 

[UtahBill]

Then why have public schooling at all? We see to it that everyone else gets their academic needs met; why do we make an exception only for the most capable?

The most capable will be the most to benefit from advanced education. Or would you attempt to train low IQ types to be rocket surgeons???

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

The most capable will be the most to benefit from advanced education. Or would you attempt to train low IQ types to be rocket surgeons???

The problem is that we are denying an advanced education to the most capable-- or, at least, delaying it until such time as they have lost interest and motivation in pursuing their education. You can't keep students bored out of their minds in a non-stimulating environment for years and then expect them to give a damn about anything you try to teach them later.

 

[UtahBill]

The problem is that we are denying an advanced education to the most capable-- or, at least, delaying it until such time as they have lost interest and motivation in pursuing their education. You can't keep students bored out of their minds in a non-stimulating environment for years and then expect them to give a damn about anything you try to teach them later.

Totally agree, give the most to those who will benefit the most. Work ethic is part of the equation, I have known average people who excel based on work ethic, and very smart people who fail due to lack of effort and/or interest.
We will always need burger flippers, for those who won't learn...

 

[repeter]

Totally agree, give the most to those who will benefit the most. Work ethic is part of the equation, I have known average people who excel based on work ethic, and very smart people who fail due to lack of effort and/or interest.
We will always need burger flippers, for those who won't learn...

Yeah, thats the only arguement for allowing stupidity to be legal lol. But seriously, I can relate to those smart people, bad habits thing. I know soooo many geniuses, but most of them think that the increased talent allows them to goof off more. I personally think that today's culture has contributed to a society that doesn't care, more and more. But no matter what, we need to make education leave behind those too stupid to care, and help those who want to learn.

 

[American]

This horrible bill that was passed by Bush, and the Republican Congress has destroyed the next generation. I am a high school sophomore, and my education has been nearly ruined by the them. From 6th grade, to 8th grade, I took various sections of Algebra 1. I didn't take Algebra 1 in any of them, just parts of it. I took the ACT in 8th grade, and got a 21 Composit Score, with a 20 in English, and a 22 in Math. My 9th grade year was ruined by a counselor who embraced No Child Left Behind, and a teacher who embraced it too. 10 years ago, I would probably be in Calculus, but I'm only in Algebra 2, because I used a cpu program called ALEKS. Every Child Left Behind does exactly that. It holds smart people back, and barely boosts the stupid people who don't want to work up. It's a lose-lose situation. That HAS to end.

Your education sucked before that program, you just don't know it.

 

[Bodi]

10.1 Students relate the moral and ethical principles in ancient Greek and Roman philosophy, in Judaism, and in Christianity to the development of Western political thought.
1.
Analyze the similarities and differences in Judeo-Christian and Greco-Roman views of law, reason and faith, and duties of the individual.
2.
Trace the development of the Western political ideas of the rule of law and illegitimacy
of tyranny, using selections from Plato’s Republic and Aristotle’s Politics.
3.
Consider the influence of the U.S. Constitution on political systems in the contemporary
world.

http://www.cde.ca.gov/be/st/ss/documents/histsocscistnd.pdf

If taught correctly, how is NCLB effecting your learning or the content being being taught? NCLB didn't effect my teaching in any way, shape or form. Why is it effecting your learning so horribly? Then curriculum and content of above is part of year 10 history, as you can see, it is diverse and leads to many different types of discussions and lessons. If a teacher meets the different learning styles of students, the possibilities of great lessons is endless. NCLB doesn't effect this in the slightest.

Not interested in addressing the curriculum or differentiation then, eh repeter?

 

[repeter]

Not interested in addressing the curriculum or differentiation then, eh repeter?

Please realize, thats all good and well, in theory. I've been in a class where we were supposed to analyze, and understand all that. I can, and I have friends who can. I also know the great masses of people who when asked "How did Pericles influence the goverment at the time?" people will say "Who? God, you freaking geek, go away," or something like that. I know what is actually being taught in classes, I know what the "standards" are, and I certainly know what is in the standardized tests each year. Don't think you understand more about this problem more then me, unless you have also been in school (elementary to high, of course) before, and during NCLB. And you happen to be in the top 10% of America's intelectual youth, and just happen to be going to Harvard for an Economics Program on a Scholarship. Unless you happen to match that criteria, and beat it, don't say you understand the problem, first-hand, more then me.

 

[StandUpChuck]

A couple of things repeter,

1) You didn't address his point

2) Your analytical mind didn't deduce that perhaps Bodhisattva is a teacher?

3) If you're going to Harvard on a scholarship, then NCLB ruined NOTHING for you. Your education has been a success. You've negated your OP.

4) When someone brags about being "in the top 10% of America's intelectual youth," you might want to be sure of the spelling of intellectual. Of course NCLB probably caused that typo.

 

[UtahBill]

Please realize, thats all good and well, in theory. I've been in a class where we were supposed to analyze, and understand all that. I can, and I have friends who can. I also know the great masses of people who when asked "How did Pericles influence the goverment at the time?" people will say "Who? God, you freaking geek, go away," or something like that. I know what is actually being taught in classes, I know what the "standards" are, and I certainly know what is in the standardized tests each year. Don't think you understand more about this problem more then me, unless you have also been in school (elementary to high, of course) before, and during NCLB. And you happen to be in the top 10% of America's intelectual youth, and just happen to be going to Harvard for an Economics Program on a Scholarship. Unless you happen to match that criteria, and beat it, don't say you understand the problem, first-hand, more then me.

Years of experience teaching is negated by the opinions of ONE very young and naiive student.....that was sarcasm, folks, in case anyone missed it....

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Yes. I spent 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th grade doing algebra 1. I aced it 3 times out of 4. The fourth time I decided to just ace the CST's. I should have been in Geometry from 7th grade, but the stupid system didn't let me. Theire arguement was, "everyone else is doing it, so you should too." That really pissed me off, because everyone is different. Generalization is a sin, and holding back gifted individuals while "bringing up" the people who don't want to come to school and study....thats plain stupid. I personally find that those birghter people will have more of an impact then any of those lol level idiots. If you really are going for the greater good, then those smat people will achieve it, while the idiots won't do anything but work in minimum wage level jobs.

It was like that before NCLB.

I blew the averages out of the water and all I got to take that was advanced was french and I was in middle school about 11-12 years ago.

 

[repeter]

A couple of things repeter,

1) You didn't address his point

2) Your analytical mind didn't deduce that perhaps Bodhisattva is a teacher?

3) If you're going to Harvard on a scholarship, then NCLB ruined NOTHING for you. Your education has been a success. You've negated your OP.

4) When someone brags about being "in the top 10% of America's intelectual youth," you might want to be sure of the spelling of intellectual. Of course NCLB probably caused that typo.

1. My Counterarguement is that almost no one actually knows the curriculum that's being argued. Look at the reference to the lay-man. I can almost guarantee you that people on the street cannot name the 5 liberties given to them in the 1st amendment, and I bet they don't even know what the 2nd amendment is.

2. Yes, I can infer that he's a teacher, but that doesn't mean he can speak for all teachers, and I'm only speaking for the teachers I've had, and I've known. And If what I've seen is ANY indicator for what's happening around the countries classrooms, it means we are in serious trouble.

3.Yes NCLB has ruined a lot of things for me, because I have learned almost nothing at school. I've had to spend my own time to actually learn. Things at school were the same, from 6th-8th grade. No difference, in anything. My education is technically a "success," but it, like so many others, had much more untapped potential, which wasn't tapped because of NCLB.

4. Oh wow, I made 1 typo in how many words? I tend not to go back and look for mistakes, because I am arrogant enough to feel that I can catch mistakes when I make them. Normally that's true, but not this one time.

 

[UtahBill]

It is unfortunate that the average school is geared toward the average student, as it leaves some in the dust, and bores the crap out of others.
But that is life. If you are aware that the average school is inadequate for your needs, that is good, you can then do something about it.
Keep at it.....the only person you can count on to have your best interests at heart is the one you see in the mirror....

 

[Voidwar]

Here is the problem with NCLB.

The teachers CHEATED because they didn't want to lose tenure / find new jobs/ re-interview for their former positions.

They "taught to the test" so THEIR school wouldn't close.

They were not supposed to do that.

They were supposed to keep on teaching as they had been, and the "test" was supposed to determine which schools to close and reorganize from the ground up.

NCLB failed because the teachers cheated, to save THEIR OWN jobs.
A new school would have been opened or made available to those students under NCLB, so it wasn't to save the students, it was to save thier little school and thus THEIR tenure.

 

[Bodi]

Please realize, thats all good and well, in theory. I've been in a class where we were supposed to analyze, and understand all that. I can, and I have friends who can. I also know the great masses of people who when asked "How did Pericles influence the goverment at the time?" people will say "Who? God, you freaking geek, go away," or something like that. I know what is actually being taught in classes, I know what the "standards" are, and I certainly know what is in the standardized tests each year. Don't think you understand more about this problem more then me, unless you have also been in school (elementary to high, of course) before, and during NCLB. And you happen to be in the top 10% of America's intelectual youth, and just happen to be going to Harvard for an Economics Program on a Scholarship. Unless you happen to match that criteria, and beat it, don't say you understand the problem, first-hand, more then me.

Poppycock. I am twice as old as you and have my own experiences and qualifications, many of which you will never attain, nor could you if you tried, in all honesty. Yes, I am a teacher, but I have taught at not only high school, but college and in many different fields and multiple countries. Get over yourself.

If you were top 10% and were as intellectually great as you profess, you would already understand the problem at it's inherent level, or at the very least, you would be able to research the issue and arrive at an appropriate conclusion. Essentially, you would not act completely lost here regarding this subject.

It seems that you think to much of yourself and by the mere fact that you know of and who Pericles is, that this level of education should be standard. That is ridiculous. Education should have a broad reach. Most people are not going, nor would they want to go to Harvard for any reason, let alone for something as (what many people consider) boring as economics.

Now, are you going to address some of the root issues or are you going to keep complaining about the fluff? :2wave:

 

[Bodi]

Here is the problem with NCLB.

The teachers CHEATED because they didn't want to lose tenure / find new jobs/ re-interview for their former positions.

They "taught to the test" so THEIR school wouldn't close.

They were not supposed to do that.

They were supposed to keep on teaching as they had been, and the "test" was supposed to determine which schools to close and reorganize from the ground up.

NCLB failed because the teachers cheated, to save THEIR OWN jobs.
A new school would have been opened or made available to those students under NCLB, so it wasn't to save the students, it was to save thier little school and thus THEIR tenure.

It is not the fault that the teachers cheated though... the government places too many restrictions and too many unreachable goals. Getting special education students to reach unrealistic levels of education or the state can take over the school, teachers can lose their jobs... etc. I taught at a school that was in jeopardy and only received a two-year out of six-year renewal before they had to undergo observations again. Teachers were relieved yet freaked. They (we) could already see that the next round we would be in jeopardy simply due to being an inner city school with massive issues regarding the student population. What the hell are the teachers supposed to do? I ended up leaving and going to another school for the reason of proximity to were we lived, but I feel bad for many teachers and administrators.

NCLB never effected my teaching personally though...