Even when I was an atheist, I was still pro-life.

[Lursa]

If only it were her own body. Even science does not believe that lie. She had "control" over her "own body" until she became pregnant. Then it became two bodies in one "shell".

So? Science doesnt value humans, born or unborn, any differently than other animals. It's completely objective. It 'classifies', it doesnt make decisions and it doesnt make laws.

Rights are a man-made concept. Man makes laws. Any regulation of abortion requires laws. What authority that Americans are obligated to follow says the unborn has a right to life?

 

[Lursa]

She does not get to control his finances, that again is utter nonsense. The child has 2 parents, both have to pay for that child. The mother usually does it financially and physically, the man also has to contribute.

It is utter nonsense. It's a state/county decision. If the woman applies for any public assistance, the state will go after the father, including pressuring her to reveal his identity if necessary, in order to at least attempt to save the taxpayers an unfair added burden. They try to hold the parties accountable who knowingly risked creating the kid. And the man knowingly took that risk, knowing that if there's a pregnancy, he has no choice in her reproductive decision. Why should the people that knowingly take a risk NOT be held responsible? It sure not fair to stick even more on the taxpayers when the responsible parties are available.

 

[vegas giants]

She does not get to control his finances, that again is utter nonsense. The child has 2 parents, both have to pay for that child. The mother usually does it financially and physically, the man also has to contribute.

Actually she does. There is no child. There is a fetus. She can choose to be selfish and let it become a child when she can not afford it and it wont have a father.


That is irresponsible


Or she can wait until she can afford a child or has a willing father


That is responsible


Deny that

 

[Lursa]

What is it about bearing responsibility for ones actions that you fail to be able to comprehend?

It's completely a responsible decision. I've already posted on this, proof of it. How responsible is it to have a kid you cant afford?

Women have every right to have sex anytime they want, and most do so responsibly. Too bad if you disagree, sex is a wonderful thing for 2 people to share and we are just as entitled to that as men.

See posts 225 and 399 for some of that proof.

 

[Lursa]

If you call the baby her body, sure. But that is not true at all. My youngest daughter is pregnant and fights hard to keep her baby. Do not ask her to abort it or she will harm you.

Sounds like you and perhaps your daughter, have a poor understanding of "pro-choice"

A pro-choice supporter supports her decision, whatever it is. Too bad you cant say the same.

 

[Old Trapper]

It's completely a responsible decision. I've already posted on this, proof of it. How responsible is it to have a kid you cant afford?

Then why are you having sex to begin with? Do you even have a clue what it means to be responsible?

 

[Lursa]

Because I am human, and a Christian. And that makes me know better.

I'm a human and a Christian and I saw you call some women 'whores' So...I dont think much of your claims of Christianity or your other reasons to be pro-life.

 

[Lursa]

Then why are you having sex to begin with? Do you even have a clue what it means to be responsible?

Please answer my question and I'm happy to answer yours.

(And I consider your question kind of odd unless you've never had sex)

 

[Peter King]

Actually she does. There is no child. There is a fetus. She can choose to be selfish and let it become a child when she can not afford it and it wont have a father.


That is irresponsible


Or she can wait until she can afford a child or has a willing father


That is responsible


Deny that

There a ZEF and a woman has the freedom of choice, pure and simple. And it is not irresponsible to choose to have a child, to claim that is again ludicrous and total nonsense. The irresponsible thing may have been both parents having sex without adequate protection but that is not what your point of view is about.

You seem to not care about justice or reason and I guess that was quite obvious from all your posts. It puts all the blame on the woman (and the cost/child caring) and none on the father, and that is bullcrap and that is undeniable.

 

[Peter King]

Then why are you having sex to begin with? Do you even have a clue what it means to be responsible?

More anti-woman attitude there, because you are not asking or putting any responsibility on the man. It is the woman and the child who are either irresponsible or both screwed over by the man failing to do the right thing, but the man gets away with no consequences or demand for responsibility, nope, that is not going to happen in a just society. All is on the woman, which is ridiculous.

 

[vegas giants]

There a ZEF and a woman has the freedom of choice, pure and simple. And it is not irresponsible to choose to have a child, to claim that is again ludicrous and total nonsense. The irresponsible thing may have been both parents having sex without adequate protection but that is not what your point of view is about.

You seem to not care about justice or reason and I guess that was quite obvious from all your posts. It puts all the blame on the woman (and the cost/child caring) and none on the father, and that is bullcrap and that is undeniable.

Good now you understand we are not yet talking about a child.


Anyone that chooses to bring a child into the world they can not afford is irresponsible. My god why do that to a child. It is done by selfish people that want something to love. It is the single biggest cause of child abuse, medical.problens and delinquency in this country.


And you support it.


So dont get on a high horse and tell me you care about children

 

[Peter King]

Good now you understand we are not yet talking about a child.


Anyone that chooses to bring a child into the world they can not afford is irresponsible. My god why do that to a child. It is done by selfish people that want something to love. It is the single biggest cause of child abuse, medical.problens and delinquency in this country.


And you support it.


So dont get on a high horse and tell me you care about children

You are telling me it is not yet a child . That is hilarious as this has been my position for all of my adult life and all 8 years on this forum but good that you have noticed it.

And while not smart at times, if you do not believe in abortion and you get pregnant accidentally it is not a choice. I agree that women might choose to not have a child if it's financial future is not guaranteed but if you do not believe in abortion it is not like they have a choice at that moment. And you clearly have no frigging clue about that I support, all you are doing is making nonsensical claims about me.

And I am not on any high horse, and I care about children. Whereas you are showing you clearly only care about a man's right not to contribute to their children, wow, and then claiming I am on a high horse and do not care about children

 

[Praxas]

The body inside her body is not her body!

By definition it is.

 

[Praxas]

And they have a choice on whether or not to get pregnant. It's not even "reproductive rights" once the baby is conceived. The baby has already been reproduced. When you abort, it's just murder.

Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person. Abortion is not illegal, therefore NOT murder. Abortion is not murder no matter how much you want it to be. Words matter and it doesn't fit what you are trying to fit.

 

[vegas giants]

You are telling me it is not yet a child . That is hilarious as this has been my position for all of my adult life and all 8 years on this forum but good that you have noticed it.

And while not smart at times, if you do not believe in abortion and you get pregnant accidentally it is not a choice. I agree that women might choose to not have a child if it's financial future is not guaranteed but if you do not believe in abortion it is not like they have a choice at that moment. And you clearly have no frigging clue about that I support, all you are doing is making nonsensical claims about me.

And I am not on any high horse, and I care about children. Whereas you are showing you clearly only care about a man's right not to contribute to their children, wow, and then claiming I am on a high horse and do not care about children

Dude you were the one that said it was a child. Lol. Make up your mind.

I fully support abortion and believe it should be federally funded.


But anyone who chooses to have a child they can not afford is selfish and cares only about themselves.


Put children first

 

[Old Trapper]

I'm a human and a Christian and I saw you call some women 'whores' So...I dont think much of your claims of Christianity or your other reasons to be pro-life.

Surely you are not saying that the Bible does not refer to whores, or are you that biblically illiterate. So tell me, how can you be a "christian" and support abortions? Or are you one of those "christians" in name only that cherry picks scripture to decide if they should opbey God, or man.

 

[Lursa]

Surely you are not saying that the Bible does not refer to whores, or are you that biblically illiterate. So tell me, how can you be a "christian" and support abortions? Or are you one of those "christians" in name only that cherry picks scripture to decide if they should opbey God, or man.

Please answer my question before asking me any.

And yes, I absolutely have answers to those questions.

 

[Old Trapper]

More anti-woman attitude there, because you are not asking or putting any responsibility on the man. It is the woman and the child who are either irresponsible or both screwed over by the man failing to do the right thing, but the man gets away with no consequences or demand for responsibility, nope, that is not going to happen in a just society. All is on the woman, which is ridiculous.

The man is not the one killing the child. Tell you what, if you think that having an abortion as a means of birth control is so great try going to the store and shopping without any money. "Anti-woman" is you trying to make her out to be stupid to the point of where she has no conscience, or sense of right, and wrong.

 

[Peter King]

Dude you were the one that said it was a child. Lol. Make up your mind.

I fully support abortion and believe it should be federally funded.


But anyone who chooses to have a child they can not afford is selfish and cares only about themselves.


Put children first

More nonsense I see, I am the one who says that abortion is about ZEF's and that zygote's are not baby's.

Great I also support abortion and pregnancy leave, government child support, financial assistance, etc. etc. etc.

I just don't believe in letting men get off without financial consequences when they father a child. Not saying he should pay for all of the costs but a share of it. The government should pay for child care and health costs (by making an affordable insurance system for health care in which children until 18 do not pay a dime). But men should still pay some part of the costs, not just the state or the woman.

 

[Old Trapper]

Please answer my question before asking me any.

And yes, I absolutely have answers to those questions.

You have asked so many I tire of looking for them. What do you in your state of ignorance want answered?

 

[southwest88]

Surely you are not saying that the Bible does not refer to whores, or are you that biblically illiterate. So tell me, how can you be a "christian" and support abortions? Or are you one of those "christians" in name only that cherry picks scripture to decide if they should opbey God, or man.

Do you seriously believe that you can bully someone into a theological position? That scarcely works when you're face-to-face with the person, let alone keyboard-to-keyboard. It can't be done, & you're not going to convince anyone of your position with heavy-handed tactics.

 

[vegas giants]

More nonsense I see, I am the one who says that abortion is about ZEF's and that zygote's are not baby's.

Great I also support abortion and pregnancy leave, government child support, financial assistance, etc. etc. etc.

I just don't believe in letting men get off without financial consequences when they father a child. Not saying he should pay for all of the costs but a share of it. The government should pay for child care and health costs (by making an affordable insurance system for health care in which children until 18 do not pay a dime). But men should still pay some part of the costs, not just the state or the woman.

Ok glad you got it straight now.

Wouldnt it be better if people only had children they can afford?


Just answer that

 

[Old Trapper]

The government should pay for child care and health costs (by making an affordable insurance system for health care in which children until 18 do not pay a dime). But men should still pay some part of the costs, not just the state or the woman.

Why should the government (taxpayer) be held responsible for anothers irresponsible actions?

Kind of like bailing out banks after they commit fraud.

 

[vegas giants]

Why should the government (taxpayer) be held responsible for anothers irresponsible actions?

Kind of like bailing out banks after they commit fraud.

Because hungry kids need food.

I am fine with extensive benefits that help kids

 

[Old Trapper]

Do you seriously believe that you can bully someone into a theological position? That scarcely works when you're face-to-face with the person, let alone keyboard-to-keyboard. It can't be done, & you're not going to convince anyone of your position with heavy-handed tactics.

How many more excuses can you come up with to avoid a n honest discussion?