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Even Jesus supported the separation of church and state

Masterhawk

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Mark 12:17
Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him.
Next time christians complain about the legality of gay marriage, show them this verse.
 

cpwill

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Mark 12:17
Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him.
Next time christians complain about the legality of gay marriage, show them this verse.

That's a fascinating leap.

What was Jesus' message on the proper division of roles, authorities, and responsibilities between state and federal government, and the proper method for achieving political change within a representative system which derives it's sovereignty and authority from that of the people?
 

Oberon

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Mark 12:17
Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him.
Next time christians complain about the legality of gay marriage, show them this verse.


Brilliant ... absolutely brilliant ... And those who think Dawkins' Butt Bois are stupid just don't know the half of it ...
 

Oberon

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The separation of church and state was a premise invented by Thomas Helwys, based on the theological premise of free will. Helwys was a founder of the Baptist sect, and separation of church and state is one of theri founding platforms. It is a distinctly Baptist principle. It also has nothing to do with banning Christianity from government or government influence or barring churches from participating in politics, despite the best fantasies of Dawkins and his cult following of gimps.
 

SouthernDemocrat

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Mark 12:17
Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him.
Next time christians complain about the legality of gay marriage, show them this verse.

Read that in context. That was nothing more than Jesus being clever in order to avoid being arrested for sedition. Basically, they hand him a coin. He says who's face is on that coin? They responded Caesar's. He then said well its his so give it back to him.

At the time of Jesus there was no separation of Church and State at all. The entire concept would have been foreign to him. Israel was a true theocracy. This is why its silly for some to argue that Jesus never involved himself in politics. If you criticized the church, by definition you were involving yourself in politics.
 

ludin

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Mark 12:17
Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him.
Next time christians complain about the legality of gay marriage, show them this verse.

You know if you knew anything about the bible you would understand you are so far off in left field you don't know where you are at.

that is not what that verse means.

The question was asked as a trap. as it was against the law in that day to speak against ceasar.
So Christ was asked should we render taxes to ceasar and not God as Ceasar was claimed to be God.

His answer was the perfect answer that not only glorified God but also didn't speak against Rome.
you might want to do more research into the subject before spouting stuff like this.
 

Logicman

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Mark 12:17
Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him.
Next time christians complain about the legality of gay marriage, show them this verse.
.
That's nonsense. Jesus is already on record about gay sex sin.

Jesus is God (many scriptures). As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Levitical law against gay sexual relations to begin with; and he’s the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sexual relations in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc.

It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made.
 

SMTA

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Mark 12:17
Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him.
Next time christians complain about the legality of gay marriage, show them this verse.

Completely not relevant to the subject at hand.

Spin again.
 

Masterhawk

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That's nonsense. Jesus is already on record about gay sex sin.

Jesus is God (many scriptures). As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Levitical law against gay sexual relations to begin with; and he’s the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sexual relations in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc.

It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made.

but the bible only condemns homosexuality as a lifestyle. Nowhere does it say that christians should take over the government and make gay marriage illegal. Cutting down on immorality is the job of the church, not the state.
 

Logicman

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but the bible only condemns homosexuality as a lifestyle. Nowhere does it say that christians should take over the government and make gay marriage illegal. Cutting down on immorality is the job of the church, not the state.

Nowhere does it say we can't serve in government and enact laws against gay marriage.
 

Cable

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but the bible only condemns homosexuality as a lifestyle. Nowhere does it say that Christians should take over the government and make gay marriage illegal. Cutting down on immorality is the job of the church, not the state.

Making gay marriage illegal has nothing to do with taking over the government. If you conflate these things in your mind you are on unsteady ground philosophically.

Our laws are based of our collective ethic, nothing more. Those who think Christians should not have a say in our societal rules are attempting to suppress their rights. Fascist-like.
 

Masterhawk

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Read that in context. That was nothing more than Jesus being clever in order to avoid being arrested for sedition. Basically, they hand him a coin. He says who's face is on that coin? They responded Caesar's. He then said well its his so give it back to him.

At the time of Jesus there was no separation of Church and State at all. The entire concept would have been foreign to him. Israel was a true theocracy. This is why its silly for some to argue that Jesus never involved himself in politics. If you criticized the church, by definition you were involving yourself in politics.

In Matthew 6, Jesus says his famous "daily bread" prayer but here's the part before that: Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
 

Opopanax

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Let's just all agree that it's a good thing our government isn't based off a religious book.

For older examples, see the Spanish Inquisition.
For a modern example, see Afghanistan.
 

LittleNipper

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Let's just all agree that it's a good thing our government isn't based off a religious book.

For older examples, see the Spanish Inquisition.
For a modern example, see Afghanistan.

The Constitution was written and accepted by men with religious backgrounds.
 

Opopanax

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The Constitution was written and accepted by men with religious backgrounds.

1. So what?
2. Quick history lesson: some were not religious, many were not Christian.
2a. #2 doesn't matter either.
 
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