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European leaders unite behind Ukraine following Trump-Zelenskyy confrontation

You make my point.
trixare4kids said:
You and I both know better. This is all about their anti-Trump butthurt. Their team's not in charge and they can't handle it. That's the only thing they care about!
Not really, since you've done nothing to address the retorts sent your way with anything but this kind of blather.
 
I have no doubt that a few moderate R's would join D's to approve funding for Ukraine, the problem is then getting it passed in the Senate, then getting enough votes to override trump's all but certain veto.
 
They don't care that we're broke, because orange man very, very bad.
We are not putting any more money into a winless war. Nothing more. Not. a. thing.
Much better to put the money toward tax breaks for trump, Musk, Bezos, etc, instead of helping a country avoid complete takeover by a tyrannical murderer, right?
 
Well said, even a trump supporter should be able to comprehend this.
 
Would be fun watching Traitor Trump twisting himself into knots explaining how it was all part of his master plan.
 
the negotiations were at Doha, Qatar. part of the conditions were no Americans would be killed -Trump told their leadership he'd hold them accountable..no Americans were killed until Bidens screw up
 
You do know what a goal post shift is right. You were not talking about that at all in the post of yours I responded to. Why lie.
These are quotes from your posts you suggest are NOT suggesting the war is unwinnable if U.S. withdraws it's support.:

"You do understand that very small scale operations, heavily supported by US logistics and air power, is not the same thing as being able to conduct a war against a near peer adversary without the US backing right"?

"Please tell me how Europe it’s going to that with their pathetic militaries. Who exactly is going to listen to them."

"Tell me how fast do you think Ukraine would have fallen to Russia if we had just left it up to Europe and Canada."

"Again that you think small scale operation supported by the US military mean they can conduct LSCO without the US military doing all the heavy work shows either a incredible about of ignorance or your bias overruling your thinking ability."

"You not understanding the difference between fighting a bunch of 3rd world terrorists who have little more then ieds and AKs and fighting someone with a modern military with things like artillery, tanks and airplanes is a you not a me problem".

"Yes Ukraine has done a great job defending themselves. A job they would not have been able to do if they relied on just the EU and Canada’s support."

Why lie indeed?
 
the negotiations were at Doha, Qatar. part of the conditions were no Americans would be killed -Trump told their leadership he'd hold them accountable..no Americans were killed until Bidens screw up
Oh yeah, trump initially invited them to Camp David, then changed his mind, probably when his handlers told him of the negative optics. Instead he negotiated a quid pro quo arrangement,
re: if you leave our troops alone, we'll pull out next year.
 
Good. **** Vance and Trump.
 
Maybe if you stopped taking things out of context and pretending I was talking about something I clearly wasnt you wouldn’t be so confused. But then we both know you are doing this little dishonest bit intentionally.

I was talking about the capabilities of European militaries in response to posters talking about how nato militaries assisted us in Afghanistan and Iraq in the context of certain posters recommending Europe and nato move to exclude the US.
If you didn’t go back and read how the conversation went that is a you not a me problem.

When you have to take a quote out of context and pretend I was talking about something else it clearly is you lying.
As you continue to demonstrate.
 
There is optimism - and then there is blind optimism:


Ba-Zing-A!
Yet, at the rate Putin's economy is sinking, in 6 months Luxembourg might be able to take Russia.
 
Yet those quotes of yours clearly mention multiple times; other country's "pathetic" militaries and the Ukraine.

My problem seems to be one of you calling me a liar when it is you doing the tap dancing.

The fact is; on multiple occasions you have condescendingly implied the Ukraine cannot win this war without U.S. support.
 
Terrible take. You wouldn't happen to be Mitt Romney in real life would you?

"Me think a bad take" is it? In other words, you don't like what I wrote but can't justify your dislike.

Perhaps you ought to look inward for why you insist on holding irrational beliefs that the rational mind cannot justify?
 
They already agreed in Istanbul to not have such missiles.
Substantiate this claim: provide copies and pastes of excerpts from credible sources to which you provide the links.
No, Russia is the reason that Washington warmongers like Nuland and Pyatt foolishly overthrew Yanuckovitch
Substantiate this claim: provide copies and pastes of excerpts from credible sources to which you provide the links.
Nations have the right to not support that war. Hungarians have that right. Romanians have that right. Georgians have that right. Fascist Eurocrats have no right to press-gang others into it.
Substantiate the claim that "Fascist Eurocrats are press-ganging European nations into supporting Ukraine as it defends itself against the ongoing and illegal Russian invasion, occupation, devastation, and brutalization". Provide copies and pastes of excerpts from credible sources to which you provide the links.

Trump is seeking peace, while you're saber-rattling. He's trying to salvage the bad situation created under Senile Puppet Biden.
Trump is pandering to putin. That's not seeking peace.

Providing support to the victim - Ukraine -is not "saber-rattling". It's standing up for the victim against the aggressor.
Anyone who wants peace instead of WW3 is smeared by you as a "Putin apologist and propagandist". Peace is the opposite of war.
Trump IS a putin apologist and propagandist. That you endorse his choosing to side with putin over Ukraine seems to put you on the same level as trump.
 


'
As Zelensky was trying to explain, before VP Vance deliberately interrupted him, Putin has already reneged on 2 negotiated agreements with Ukraine - so that any peace treaty with Russia, for all intents and purposes, isn't worth the paper its written on without a means of forcing him to comply!

President Trump's aggressive pressuring Ukraine into accepting peace terms with Russia, which he and Putin but not Zelensky had negotiated, and then publicly admonishing its leader in the Oval Office, accusing him of being ungrateful for expressing reservations, this strongly suggests that the American President has his own agenda!


Given President Trump's colossal ego, one suspects he is intent on exploiting Zelemsky's current situation to satisfy his personal ambitions - in Trump's mind brokering a peace agreement would "PUNCH HIS TICKET" to achieve a "NOBEL PEACE PRIZE," something that eluded him during his 1st term!

Trump's failure to provide Ukraine with any future commitments on America's behalf to ensure that Putin will actually honour the terms of any peace treaty was a strategic error because its a "DEAL BREAKER" - Zelensky is simply not prepared to sign a peace agreement with his untrustworthy adversary without it, irrespective of how often the America President and Vice President "browbeats" him

Based on their public performances in the Oval Office, it appears that neither the President nor the Vice President are prepared to accept the well-established principle that the best predictor of future behaviour is based on that which was being displayed in the past - at least where Vladimir Putin is involved -

Meanwhile,Trump's preoccupation with leveraging transactional deals was on full display, attempting to take advantage Ukraine's need to secure America's military support by securing the rights for all or part of that nation's rare earth minerals introduces 2 important observations"

1) this episode reveals the US President to be nothing more than an unabashed opportunist, holding a supposed ally to ransom while its fighting for its very existence - despite Trump's claims to the contrary, he will never achieve the role of a "RESPECTED LEADER" on the world stage, his leadership style has been equated to that of "MAFIA CRIME BOSS!"

2) without American assurances to preserve Ukraine's existence as a sovereign state should Putin once again violate his agreement, what would persuade those national and multinational mining interests from the private sector to invest the $billions necessary to provide the infrastructure required to make the mining of these rare earth minerals commercially viable - without guarantees concerning this nation's future independence!

For a President who also prides himself on his negotiating skills, INTRODUCTION to NEGOTIATIONS 101" would have taught Trump not to commit the cardinal sin of deliberately depriving you and/or a partner of your Number 1 "BARGAINING CHIP" - without at least extracting concessions from your opponent in return!

Having dispensed with the prospect of Ukraine attaining future membership in NATO, a decision made during Trump's first round of negotiations with Putin, the American President has effectively undermined Zelensky's already weakened bargaining position by conceding this issue without receiving any Russian concessions in return!
 
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