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Not really, since you've done nothing to address the retorts sent your way with anything but this kind of blather.You make my point.
trixare4kids said:
You and I both know better. This is all about their anti-Trump butthurt. Their team's not in charge and they can't handle it. That's the only thing they care about!
I have no doubt that a few moderate R's would join D's to approve funding for Ukraine, the problem is then getting it passed in the Senate, then getting enough votes to override trump's all but certain veto."No clarity" is an understatement. It's chaos. But, that's what the Orange Criminal is known for, right?
I guess there is some chance that Congress will approve funds for Ukraine, despite Trump. But, that's a stretch. It would be political suicide for the Republicans in Congress to specify $ billions for Ukraine. Could the Democrats scrape a few Republicans off the bottom and push something through? My guess is no. But, there's always hope!
Much better to put the money toward tax breaks for trump, Musk, Bezos, etc, instead of helping a country avoid complete takeover by a tyrannical murderer, right?They don't care that we're broke, because orange man very, very bad.
We are not putting any more money into a winless war. Nothing more. Not. a. thing.
As has been pointed out several times in this thread, Europe has contributed more than the US.The Euro countries should have done this all along. Instead they kept looking at Biden and saying, "You can do this, right? "
Well said, even a trump supporter should be able to comprehend this.Until 40 days ago Ukraine was more than a friendly nation, it was a European partner aspiring to full and formal allied status.
Ukraine was not wishing to fight a proxy war, but a war of national defense and liberation from Russian brutality, occupation, and annexation.
Pause for a moment. Let this sink in as an analogy. The raped are the innocent. The rapist is the guilty. Women and men know this simple truth. This isn't disputable. You've always impressed me as a moral person, so you know that, so let's move on.
The question for the US and Nato in February of 2022 was a) is it tolerable to accommodate this aggression in the 21st century. and b) does this represent a major threat to other nations, particularly to those whose values and economies are heavily intertwined?
The answer is no, it was not and is not tolerable AND yes, it did and does represent a major threat to the west, even to the well-known neutrals and historically raped of Finland and Sweden, who immediately sought NATO entry.
Pause for a moment. Let this sink in. A serial rapist and looters are likely to continue. Communities band together to stop such scum from raping and robbing them. There are always a few hermits, anti-social types, and macho men who are indifferent to rapists and looters and brag they are not worried cause it won't ever affect them - you are not like them.
So then, we assume that you are a moral person and not on the side of the rapist Putin and Russia and their hideous savagery, if so, let's discuss how we should have and should now react.
The Biden administration and Nato countries assisted Ukraine for the same reason, to help Ukraine survive and regain its occupied lands from serial criminals. But also, with the side benefit of weakening Russia if the war continued. Formerly and historically neutral countries Sweden and Norway also joined seeing the same threats to, and benefits for, their national security.
Has that worked? Yes, but not nearly as well as hoped. Ukraine, largely due to US and European failures to react promptly and decisively in their aid, still made initial gains but has since been in a war of attrition. At this point both sides appear fragile, with Ukraine looking more fragile than Russia, if only because one of Ukraine's major backers is trying to back out (ie USA).
None the less, the war has seriously eroded Russian cold war stocks of arms (that far exceeded western reserves) and shown their military to be unable to win EXCEPT, perhaps, by attrition facilitated by a failed will of the US leadership.
Even so this has been a wonderfully efficient way to cripple the western hemisphere's greatest serial rapist and looter for negligible costs and little risk.
THEREFORE...
If Ukraine wants to fight on, why stop? Russia is a serial rapist that is isolated, economically teetering, and every day this goes on is a day closer to Putin's political destruction and Russia's containment. The US and Nato don't have to risk a single western life, the cost is very small, moreover, if deftly handled it may secure 25 percent of the world's deposits of rare earth and other minerals for the allied world, especially the US.
Pause here. Think about it. If you truly believe in America first (as most Trumpers claim they do) then putting our needs for secure access to rare earth and related minerals is paramount. But you can't have secure access if Russian claim jumper rapists also want it. The US has to defend Ukraine if it wants to keep it from the only military capable of taking it - Russia
While there has been could be an end in sight there is very little in our national interests nor that of European allies to either force a fragile and unjust conditional surrender upon Ukraine. In fact, its is exceedingly stupid to do so.
Finally, if the US wishes to break the stalemate it has been simple and SHOULD BE even simpler now: stop didling and send Ukraine the same kind of weapons Russia has. Do that and in six months Russia will be the one suing for peace to the benefit of Ukraine, the WEST, and the USA.
Would be fun watching Traitor Trump twisting himself into knots explaining how it was all part of his master plan.Maybe Zelensky should think outside the box by offering some of his precious minerals to China and Zi, they are the one other country aside from the US to bring Russian aggression to an end. China could certainly use the minerals, and without China purchasing Russian oil, Putin's war effort will be degraded more than it is. China could even provide the security guarantees that Ukraine needs. While I would hate to see China getting those materials, it would serve trump right for being a dick. Maybe the threat of losing those materials would bring trump to his senses.
the negotiations were at Doha, Qatar. part of the conditions were no Americans would be killed -Trump told their leadership he'd hold them accountable..no Americans were killed until Bidens screw upOK, how did trump do at extracting us from the war? Oh, that's right, he brought the Taliban to the US and negotiated with them directly, without any input from the Afghan government,
much like he's trying to do with Ukraine. Despite that, he was still unable to end the war and get our troops out. trump is an abject failure at deal making, yet he claims it is his strength.
These are quotes from your posts you suggest are NOT suggesting the war is unwinnable if U.S. withdraws it's support.:You do know what a goal post shift is right. You were not talking about that at all in the post of yours I responded to. Why lie.
Assumes an outcome that so far has been nowhere in evidence.Well said, even a trump supporter should be able to comprehend this.
You have proven me wrong, I was sure that even MAGA would comprehend @maxparrish's well written post. I guess you can't help some folks.Terrible take. You wouldn't happen to be Mitt Romney in real life would you?
Oh yeah, trump initially invited them to Camp David, then changed his mind, probably when his handlers told him of the negative optics. Instead he negotiated a quid pro quo arrangement,the negotiations were at Doha, Qatar. part of the conditions were no Americans would be killed -Trump told their leadership he'd hold them accountable..no Americans were killed until Bidens screw up
You know me, always the optimist.Assumes an outcome that so far has been nowhere in evidence.
That's always been the right side of life's choices.You know me, always the optimist.
There is optimism - and then there is blind optimism:You know me, always the optimist.
Good. **** Vance and Trump."Today, it became clear that the free world needs a new leader. It’s up to us, Europeans, to take this challenge." Kaja Kallas.
I couldn't agree more. America is Putin's bitch and needs to be kicked to the curb.
Time for the grown ups to take charge.
European leaders unite behind Ukraine following Trump-Zelenskyy row
Just hours after Ukraine's president and his US counterpart and vice president argued live on TV on Friday, European leaders voiced their full support for the eastern European country.www.euronews.com
Maybe if you stopped taking things out of context and pretending I was talking about something I clearly wasnt you wouldn’t be so confused. But then we both know you are doing this little dishonest bit intentionally.These are quotes from your posts you suggest are NOT suggesting the war is unwinnable if U.S. withdraws it's support.:
"You do understand that very small scale operations, heavily supported by US logistics and air power, is not the same thing as being able to conduct a war against a near peer adversary without the US backing right"?
"Please tell me how Europe it’s going to that with their pathetic militaries. Who exactly is going to listen to them."
"Tell me how fast do you think Ukraine would have fallen to Russia if we had just left it up to Europe and Canada."
"Again that you think small scale operation supported by the US military mean they can conduct LSCO without the US military doing all the heavy work shows either a incredible about of ignorance or your bias overruling your thinking ability."
"You not understanding the difference between fighting a bunch of 3rd world terrorists who have little more then ieds and AKs and fighting someone with a modern military with things like artillery, tanks and airplanes is a you not a me problem".
"Yes Ukraine has done a great job defending themselves. A job they would not have been able to do if they relied on just the EU and Canada’s support."
Why lie indeed?
Yet, at the rate Putin's economy is sinking, in 6 months Luxembourg might be able to take Russia.There is optimism - and then there is blind optimism:
Ba-Zing-A!
Yet those quotes of yours clearly mention multiple times; other country's "pathetic" militaries and the Ukraine.Maybe if you stopped taking things out of context and pretending I was talking about something I clearly wasnt you wouldn’t be so confused. But then we both know you are doing this little dishonest bit intentionally.
I was talking about the capabilities of European militaries in response to posters talking about how nato militaries assisted us in Afghanistan and Iraq. If you didn’t go back and read how the conversation went that is a you not a me problem.
When you have to take a quote out of context and pretend I was talking about something else it clearly is you lying.
As you continue to demonstrate.
You first.What did I lie about? Specifics would be lovely…
Terrible take. You wouldn't happen to be Mitt Romney in real life would you?
You realize I watched this a few times.Nah….Trump didn’t blow anything up. Zelensky did.Zelensky needs our money. Period.
Well said, even a trump supporter should be able to comprehend this.
Substantiate this claim: provide copies and pastes of excerpts from credible sources to which you provide the links.They already agreed in Istanbul to not have such missiles.
Substantiate this claim: provide copies and pastes of excerpts from credible sources to which you provide the links.No, Russia is the reason that Washington warmongers like Nuland and Pyatt foolishly overthrew Yanuckovitch
Substantiate the claim that "Fascist Eurocrats are press-ganging European nations into supporting Ukraine as it defends itself against the ongoing and illegal Russian invasion, occupation, devastation, and brutalization". Provide copies and pastes of excerpts from credible sources to which you provide the links.Nations have the right to not support that war. Hungarians have that right. Romanians have that right. Georgians have that right. Fascist Eurocrats have no right to press-gang others into it.
Trump is pandering to putin. That's not seeking peace.Trump is seeking peace, while you're saber-rattling. He's trying to salvage the bad situation created under Senile Puppet Biden.
Trump IS a putin apologist and propagandist. That you endorse his choosing to side with putin over Ukraine seems to put you on the same level as trump.Anyone who wants peace instead of WW3 is smeared by you as a "Putin apologist and propagandist". Peace is the opposite of war.
'That supposedly "simple" peace talk door is still wide open. Zelensky or any interested country can walk right through it and could have done so at any previous point in the last 3 years. Do you think they haven't walked through that simple peace talk door because they want the war to continue?
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