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European leaders unite behind Ukraine following Trump-Zelenskyy confrontation

To me, it went bad when Vance accused him of never thanking America. That was a flat out lie. He started out yesterday by thanking the WH for the invitation and has thanked the American people 100s of times since all this began.

Vance started the disrespect. If I was Zelenskyy, I would have walked out sooner than he did. Can you explain why Vance feels the need to lie in a setting like this?

Trump has been on a revenge tour with Zelenskyy since his first impeachment. Trump, deep down, does not want to assist Ukraine in any way. This will be used as a further excuse to stop any aid to Ukraine. It was a planned ambush.
This was definitely a set-up.



 
"Today, it became clear that the free world needs a new leader. It’s up to us, Europeans, to take this challenge." Kaja Kallas.

I couldn't agree more. America is Putin's bitch and needs to be kicked to the curb.

Time for the grown ups to take charge.












So theey're going to stand behind it for WWIII, troops and money or are they going to stand behind it by giving tweets full of platitudes?
 
Yep, the rest of the world has no idea where they stand now with Trump in charge.
The UK has invited him for a state visit but I can see him cancelling as he's getting on airforce one because there's a huge protest in London and he's offended.

He's just as likely to make a press statement slamming the UK as make one in support.
The rest of the world thinks the voters in the US are idiots. We elected a con man, sexual abuser, Putin-boot-licker, and criminal to the presidency - not once but twice.
 
Europe definitely needs to step up, Trump has favorites, Ukraine and the Baltics are not among them.

 
I guess at the end of the day, those who value ties with their democratic allies in Europe and around the world, should work together to assist Ukraine.

If Trump prefers dictators like Putin, ok. Sad, but it is what it is.


Europe is led by a host of fascists who can hardly be described as Democratic. They stiffle the free speech of their citizens under threat of imprisonment and use gestapo tactics such as branding political opposition as hate groups and using that as a means to keep them under constant investigation.

They might not be anywhere close to Putin but they're moving in his direction.
 
If you want to know how badly it went, even Nigel Farage, an avid Trump supporter, has said it was bad and that Ukraine needs security guarantees.
 
Why is this even about Trump? Nobody is arguing that he's not working hard enough to settle the dispute.
You really have to ask after what the world witnessed yesterday?
 
Ukrainians want to keep defending their country against putin's invasion, occupation, devastation, and brutalization?

Some posters are "proud" of trump's kowtowing to putin?

Neither of these facts surprises me.
Ukraine has the right and the option to keep fighting. And all countries who want to support the continuation of the war (their end goal or realistic expectation, I'm not hearing) have the option of continuing, upping, or beginning their support.

Trump sees ending the war as the better (and only realistic and reasonable) path. Zelensky is under no obligation to agree with Trump. Trump is not interested in being an enabler to an endless and unwinnable war.

Your second sentence is just an example of your personal strong anti-Trump feelings and your willingness to join in on the newest narrative - which has been instantly and already very overused to the ridiculous point. Just like the exact same late campaign attempt. It's completely anti-productive to either any end to the war or a continuation of the war. It's just another obsessive get Trump endeavor which has the potential of looking entirely stupid in the not too far future. It could end up in yet another backwards step to a currently VERY weak Dem party. Dems can't even think straight due to swimming in their anti-Trump fury and loss of control they had grown so accustomed to.
 
Trump has been on a revenge tour with Zelenskyy since his first impeachment. Trump, deep down, does not want to assist Ukraine in any way. This will be used as a further excuse to stop any aid to Ukraine. It was a planned ambush.
I agree that it was planned. It appears that Rubio was left out of the planning, however.
 
Trump sees ending the war as the better (and only realistic and reasonable) path. Zelensky is under no obligation to agree with Trump. Trump is not interested in being an enabler to an endless and unwinnable war.
Trump wants to end the war in Russia's favour. He wants Ukraine to cede their lands. Trump could have ended the war by siding with Ukraine but for some reason he favours Putin.
 
I'll break it down.


Zelensky first questioned Vance about what he knew about negotiations in a disrespectful manner and it devolved from there. Then Zelensky doubled and tripled down by continuously interrupting our president and making smart ass comments.

Liberals, being the dishonest liars they are, leave out the important parts just so they can go into their full throttle TDS frenzy.

You’ll break it down? Don’t know which is more hilarious, that you claimed something so easily disproven while accusing others of being dishonest liars, or that four people actually agreed with it.

The entire transcript has been available.

No, Zelensky didn’t ’first question Vance about what he knew about negotiations in a disrespectful way and it devolved from there’. That part wasn’t left out because people were being dishonest, it was left out because that wasn’t how it transpired.

It devolved because Zelensky was trying to say that Putin can’t be trusted. And he’s right, but dear leader doesn’t like that given that he fully supports Putin, according to him ‘they went through the Russia hoax together’. Vance needed to put on a performance for dear leader.

————-

Full transcript below. Nowhere does it show that it devolved when Zelensky disrespectfully questioned Vance about what Vance knew about negotiations.

 
I realize you are desperately saying Rebubs are Putinistas - but that is Democratic hogwash
And you heard a LOT of that from them today
They have yet to find ANY new tactics. The old tried (and failed) narratives are very ingrained.

One thing you don't see from any of them, is even a suggestion of what they DO think should be worked on in terms of Ukraine - their own plan different from Trump's. They have not one idea or suggestion as to how the war can end or how the war can potentially be won by Ukraine. That might be taken as they just want it to go on as it has been because they've made no other suggestions or offered no other ideas.
 
Trump is doing what's best for Ukraine -- Zelensky doesn't understand that.
Trump is trying to end the war ASAP which will save lives. That's the best thing, whether Zelensky recognizes it or not.

Biden was a soft-headed warmonger.
Trump is a tough man of peace.
I certainly agree.
 
They have yet to find ANY new tactics. The old tried (and failed) narratives are very ingrained.

One thing you don't see from any of them, is even a suggestion of what they DO think should be worked on in terms of Ukraine - their own plan different from Trump's. They have not one idea or suggestion as to how the war can end or how the war can potentially be won by Ukraine. That might be taken as they just want it to go on as it has been because they've made no other suggestions or offered no other ideas.
Simple, side with Ukraine against the invader in the peace talks. Put the screws to Putin instead of Zelenskyy. Stop elevating Putin on the world stage.
 
Here's a thought. You can want to end the war AND denounce Putin as a dictator who started the war.

Tag teaming Zelensky who doesn't speak English all that well was petty. And NO, WW3 isn't going to happen. Hyperbole from Trump.
You can "want to end the war" but you can't strike a deal with Putin and Zelensky without Putin involved. We're well into this war now with 3 years and over a million lost lives. The usefulness of calling Putin "a dictator who started the war" in the midst of an effort to bring the war to a negotiated end - escapes me.
 
Trump is creating a power and influence vacuum by pulling America into a fetal position on the world stage. Europe would be the best suited to fill it.

It's really odd to me that the American right complains about European government and culture and yet wants to hand over more world influence to them.
In the context of the post WW2 global order, sure. The problem is Europe's always had a problem working together well, and even under the EU there are always issues between the member countries on this kind of larger strategy. What doesn't help the EU is they are not the military machine the US is, and scaling up to fill that void isn't going to happen overnight. The other factor here is what they can agree upon in actual support for Ukraine, and that will be determined once we're past the rhetoric phase we're in right now.
 
Holy shit, that's a delusional take. He was very respectful in answering about 'diplomacy' (NOT negotiations :rolleyes: ) and related how Putin did not keep his word on anything they agreed upon. He ended with 'how is that diplomacy'?

As far as him interrupting, they didn't even give him a ****ing chance to speak, talking over him almost every time. Like the bullies they are.
Vance crying: You didn't thank us.......whaaaaaa!
When in FACT, he opened the meeting with a thank you.


Indeed. As always, when it comes to the magasphere every accusation is a confession.

There is one thing that’s true though, there sure is a full throttle TDS frenzy.

The real TDS though:
Trump Deflection Syndrome
Trump’s Dishonest Sycophants
Trump Devotion Sickness
Trump Devotion Syndrome
 
You can "want to end the war" but you can't strike a deal with Putin and Zelensky without Putin involved. We're well into this war now with 3 years and over a million lost lives. The usefulness of calling Putin "a dictator who started the war" in the midst of an effort to bring the war to a negotiated end - escapes me.
What was the usefulness in calling Zelenskyy a dictator?
 
It's just another obsessive get Trump endeavor which has the potential of looking entirely stupid in the not too far future. It could end up in yet another backwards step to a currently VERY weak Dem party. Dems can't even think straight due to swimming in their anti-Trump fury and loss of control they had grown so accustomed to.
No. Yesterday will be remembered as the day an American President told the world that he sides with Russia, not our European allies.
 
I guess at the end of the day, those who value ties with their democratic allies in Europe and around the world, should work together to assist Ukraine.

If Trump prefers dictators like Putin, ok. Sad, but it is what it is.
That's fine for those who already have or choose to take that view of Trump. (I'm referring to your second paragraph.)

If Zelensky doesn't want anything to do with Trump's plan to end the war, Trump will step out of this mix and your first sentence in the quote above will play out to whatever end it can.
 
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