Europe: It’s Now or Never

[Rogue Valley]

Opinion: Europe: It’s Now or Never

At this pivotal moment in history, Europe must demonstrate its courage or forever accept a secondary place in world affairs.

www.kyivpost.com

8.10.25
It’s always good to keep the field open for the most optimistic outcomes, but US President Donald Trump’s meeting with his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, has all the hallmarks of yet another capitulation. Russia is demanding that Ukraine cede territory it hasn’t even lost and that it gives up areas that were taken from it. The apparently endless circularity of Trump’s deadlines, followed by weak retreat seem to have now reached their apotheosis of a potentially monumental betrayal of Ukraine in Alaska. However, there is no need to wait and speculate on what Trump may or may not try to agree with Russia. The US is not the only world power with a vast GDP and military capability that can defend Ukraine. Europe now faces an historic test of its resolve, its courage and its credibility. Before Friday, Europe must surely step in and offer guarantees to Ukraine, indeed to the world, that it will arm and support Ukraine until victory and that the concession of territory, or any other degradation of Ukraine, will not be an acceptable outcome of the Alaskan meeting. Europe must make clear to Trump that either he delivers an agreement that ends the war on favorable terms to Ukraine, or both he, and the US, will be rendered irrelevant in the subsequent developments. Europe has the ability and wherewithal to take this posture, but will it do so? Its behavior does not give much hope.

Europe has stepped up its support for Ukraine in recent months, but it still lacks that edge, that urgency of a continent that grasps the enormous bloodshed and chaos that will result if Ukraine is defeated. Putin of course knows all this. He feels confident that he can turn up in Alaska and play the game with no concern for the European response. Europe’s vassal-like behavior has reduced the whole spectacle to a wrestling match between Russia and the US in which European power is all but irrelevant. Europe should state its position clearly and simply. Russia launched an unprovoked war of aggression, and we will not live in a world in which the new rule is that if you invade a country and hold its territory for three and a half years, you get to keep it. This, does it even need to be stated, is a game plan for global disaster. If Russia can get Trump to agree to cede just one meter square of Ukraine without consequence, then that’s a meter square that Russia never had. So clearly the lesson is to repeat this cycle. Fail now, and Europe will not get another chance to right it at any foreseeable time. All that follows for the years to come will be constructed on the assumption that Europe is a diminutive influence in the future of the world. The consequences, for Ukraine, could be calamitous and on that score, Europe will win nothing but infamy.

Europe can step up and avoid another Iron Curtain descending across the continent. Otherwise, Russia re-arms its military and again becomes a very real existential threat for many, many decades.

The security architecture that Europe has helped develop since WWII is at risk. Whatever happens vis-a-vis Ukraine will embolden dictators everywhere and very possibly have dark consequences across the globe.

If Ukraine is surrendered or partitioned, war is coming. To Europe. To Asia. Don't expect the support of Donald Trump. He is untrustworthy and power hungry.

 

[Tigerace117]

Opinion: Europe: It’s Now or Never

At this pivotal moment in history, Europe must demonstrate its courage or forever accept a secondary place in world affairs.

www.kyivpost.com

Europe can step up and avoid another Iron Curtain descending across the continent. Otherwise, Russia re-arms its military and again becomes a very real existential threat for many, many decades.

The security architecture that Europe has helped develop since WWII is at risk. Whatever happens vis-a-vis Ukraine will embolden dictators everywhere and very possibly have dark consequences across the globe.

If Ukraine is surrendered or partitioned, war is coming. To Europe. To Asia. Don't expect the support of Donald Trump. He is untrustworthy and power hungry.

The West has zero ability to prevent the Russians from rearming in the first place.

The West has proudly been enabling dictators in their aggression for decades in the name of fighting Russia.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

From the link:

Russia is demanding that Ukraine cede territory it hasn’t even lost and that it gives up areas that were taken from it.​

Utterly despicable. Putin clearly playing games with demands designed to stop all real progress.

The West has zero ability to prevent the Russians from rearming in the first place.

It would be a waste of effort to try. What Europe can and should do though is develop serious counter to Russian nuclear capability. As for Russia's military, they are still struggling to overcome a bunch of Ukrainian farmers and gamers.

 

[PeteEU]

It would be a waste of effort to try. What Europe can and should do though is develop serious counter to Russian nuclear capability. As for Russia's military, they are still struggling to overcome a bunch of Ukrainian farmers and gamers.

Not to mention.. look at the freaking numbers. Europe even without the US, have more men, planes, helicopters and so on than Russia. Only place we arguably could be behind is on tanks, but that is because the estimation of Russian tank stores is all over the place.

Russia is not at threat to a united Europe. That is why Putin supports people like Farage, Le Pen, the moron in Hungary, the demented pedophile nazi in Washington and many others.. because he does not want an united Europe, but a fractured one. Basically his tactic is an ancient one.. divide and conquer or at least divide and become "equal".

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Putin supports people like Farage, Le Pen, the moron in Hungary, the demented pedophile nazi in Washington and many others.. because he does not want an united Europe, but a fractured one.

On this Pete, I can absolutely agree. Always amazes me when I see Europeans supporting Farage's desire to break up Europe. I think "why? haven't you done enough damage to the UK that you want to meddle in other nation's affairs and extend this catastrophe to them?"

 

[PeteEU]

On this Pete, I can absolutely agree. Always amazes me when I see Europeans supporting Farage's desire to break up Europe. I think "why? haven't you done enough damage to the UK that you want to meddle in other nation's affairs and extend this catastrophe to them?"

Its the "clan" and "racist" ideology of the far right. It is so easy to use to gain political power, by pointing out people who dont act or look like the rest, and say "they are the reason" for whatever problem of the day. Hitler did it against socialists, gays, slavs, homosexuals and of course jews. The British Empire also did it to control their empire, as did the French and all other colonial power. It is the same shit over and over again in history and the population falls for it every single freaking time.

 

[Tigerace117]

From the link:

Russia is demanding that Ukraine cede territory it hasn’t even lost and that it gives up areas that were taken from it.​

Utterly despicable. Putin clearly playing games with demands designed to stop all real progress.



It would be a waste of effort to try. What Europe can and should do though is develop serious counter to Russian nuclear capability. As for Russia's military, they are still struggling to overcome a bunch of Ukrainian farmers and gamers.

Ukraine spent almost a decade rebuilding its military after 2014. They were a lot more than just “farmers and gamers” by 2022.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Europe can step up and avoid another Iron Curtain descending across the continent. Otherwise, Russia re-arms its military and again becomes a very real existential threat for many, many decades.

Hyper-chicken little nonsense, What the Russia/Ukraine war has really shown is that Russia is not quite the threat everyone perceived it was. Their nukes are quite obviously a threat, however even those are barely maintained.

The security architecture that Europe has helped develop since WWII is at risk. Whatever happens vis-a-vis Ukraine will embolden dictators everywhere and very possibly have dark consequences across the globe.

You mean the security the US has provided? Up until Trump, European nations were very hesitant to kick in the obligatory 2% of GDP for their own defense. And only since the Ukraine war is Western Europe taking any threat from Russia seriously. Eastern Europe on the otherhand has been preparing.

If Ukraine is surrendered or partitioned, war is coming. To Europe. To Asia. Don't expect the support of Donald Trump. He is untrustworthy and power hungry.

Utter nonsense. No matter how the Russia/Ukraine war ends, Russia is now less of a threat and is now further surrounded by NATO nations. Putin may or may not end up gaining territory in Ukraine, however his goal of taking all of Ukraine is quite unlikely. Considering how much more of NATO borders Russia since before the invasion and how exposed the sad state of his miliary is, he still loses. And if war comes to Europe, article 5 kicks and the US gets involved. Perhaps in the future Europe will not be stupid enough to sign another Nordstream contract with Russia.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Hyper-chicken little nonsense, What the Russia/Ukraine war has really shown is that Russia is not quite the threat everyone perceived it was. Their nukes are quite obviously a threat, however even those are barely maintained.

Not the threat? Tens of thousands of UKrainians - soldiers and civilians alike - have perished in Putin's war of exp[ansion. I lost track of the number of times Russia threatened nuclear war over Ukraine. At least half of the nations of Europe have directly experienced Russian rule. The deportations to Siberia, the shots to the back of the neck, and the KGB torture chambers. Latvia has preserved the building in Riga where the KGB tortured Latvians in the basement. Why is it that MAGA, people like yourself, support the Russian dictatorship and work against a democracy like Ukraine? Why does MAGA love to crawl into bed with dictators and war criminals?

Kremlin’s Brutality Documented: US Rights Report Details Russian Atrocities in Ukraine, Internal Repression

You mean the security the US has provided? Up until Trump, European nations were very hesitant to kick in the obligatory 2% of GDP for their own defense. And only since the Ukraine war is Western Europe taking any threat from Russia seriously. Eastern Europe on the otherhand has been preparing.

Your FOX News propaganda won't cut it with me.....

With Ukraine war aid reaching $280 billion, who’s really funding the most – the US or EU?

Utter nonsense. No matter how the Russia/Ukraine war ends, Russia is now less of a threat and is now further surrounded by NATO nations. Putin may or may not end up gaining territory in Ukraine, however his goal of taking all of Ukraine is quite unlikely. Considering how much more of NATO borders Russia since before the invasion and how exposed the sad state of his miliary is, he still loses. And if war comes to Europe, article 5 kicks and the US gets involved. Perhaps in the future Europe will not be stupid enough to sign another Nordstream contract with Russia.

With Chinese assistence, Moscow will be able to rearm its military quite quickly.

Article 5? Lol. No one in Europe trusts Donald Trump to honor his NATO committments. Trump is even sullying US soil with his Alaska invitation to the Russian war criminal.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Not the threat? Tens of thousands of UKrainians - soldiers and civilians alike - have perished in Putin's war of exp[ansion.

Your libruls are so much on edge, you fail to comprehend what you read. I did not use the term "Not a threat". And I think you sell the US and Europe short.

 

[Tigerace117]

Not the threat? Tens of thousands of UKrainians - soldiers and civilians alike - have perished in Putin's war of exp[ansion. I lost track of the number of times Russia threatened nuclear war over Ukraine. At least half of the nations of Europe have directly experienced Russian rule. The deportations to Siberia, the shots to the back of the neck, and the KGB torture chambers. Latvia has preserved the building in Riga where the KGB tortured Latvians in the basement. Why is it that MAGA, people like yourself, support the Russian dictatorship and work against a democracy like Ukraine? Why does MAGA love to crawl into bed with dictators and war criminals?

Kremlin’s Brutality Documented: US Rights Report Details Russian Atrocities in Ukraine, Internal Repression



Your FOX News propaganda won't cut it with me.....

With Ukraine war aid reaching $280 billion, who’s really funding the most – the US or EU?



With Chinese assistence, Moscow will be able to rearm its military quite quickly.

Article 5? Lol. No one in Europe trusts Donald Trump to honor his NATO committments. Trump is even sullying US soil with his Alaska invitation to the Russian war criminal.

Latvia honors the local Nazi collaborators as national heroes. Nobody is shocked they are still sulking about the Soviets sending the SS fleeing back towards Germany.

The U.S. has proudly propped up dictators and war criminals across the globe in the name of “fighting Russia” for over a century.

 

[BitterPill]

Latvia honors the local Nazi collaborators as national heroes. Nobody is shocked they are still sulking about the Soviets sending the SS fleeing back towards Germany.

The U.S. has proudly propped up dictators and war criminals across the globe in the name of “fighting Russia” for over a century.

I am curious if you can list a few nations that haven't propped-up dictators and war criminals, please?

 

[Tigerace117]

I am curious if you can list a few nations that haven't propped-up dictators and war criminals, please?

…..most nations?

You rather have to go out of your way to do so.

 

[Juin]

As for Russia's military, they are still struggling to overcome a bunch of Ukrainian farmers and gamers.

It is more accurately Ukrainian farmers and gamers + hundreds of billions of dollars in western military/financial assistance. The hundreds of billions of dollars is always overlooked but it makes all the difference.

Now there is another war going on between Israel and Hamas in Gaza. Its still going on more than a year and half after the recent hostilities started. I will say Russia is performing better than Israel. Israel has one of the world's finest armies and air forces. Hamas does not enjoy the benefit of hundreds of billions of dollars in continuous military assistance. Israel does not even have to deal with vast distances. And it is taking Israel months and months. Makes me wonder how it would be if Hamas had a constant infusion of arms

I think wars can get complicated where smaller parties have big sponsors

 

[Juin]

Russia is not at threat to a united Europe.

I agree. But why do western leaders keep arguing otherwise?

 

[BitterPill]

…..most nations?

You rather have to go out of your way to do so.

Since it seems you agree that 'most nations' prop-up dictators and war criminals, it is more a matter of degree.

In your opinion, which nations are most culpable?

 

[Tigerace117]

Since it seems you agree that 'most nations' prop-up dictators and war criminals, it is more a matter of degree.

In your opinion, which nations are most culpable?

…..that’s like the exact opposition of what I said?

 

[BitterPill]

…..that’s like the exact opposition of what I said?

Fair enough.

I will give you another shot:

I am curious if you can list a few nations that haven't propped-up dictators and war criminals, please?​

 

[PeteEU]

I agree. But why do western leaders keep arguing otherwise?

Because it is easy.

 

[Tigerace117]

Fair enough.

I will give you another shot:

I am curious if you can list a few nations that haven't propped-up dictators and war criminals, please?​

Again, most countries don’t go around crushing others’ democracies and installing puppet dictators.

 

[Real blank]

I don’t feel the will within Europe. We are wallowing in our stagflationLeaders talk a big game, but they are incredibly unpopular within their own countries

 

[BitterPill]

Again, most countries don’t go around crushing others’ democracies and installing puppet dictators.

Canada?

 

[german hick]

Latvia honors the local Nazi collaborators as national heroes. Nobody is shocked they are still sulking about the Soviets sending the SS fleeing back towards Germany.

The U.S. has proudly propped up dictators and war criminals across the globe in the name of “fighting Russia” for over a century.

That may not be completely false but debatable. Anything on the topic?

 

[german hick]

Again, most countries don’t go around crushing others’ democracies and installing puppet dictators.

Why don´t you make a "US is the worst country on earth" - thread and put all your whatabout America posts in there?

 

[joluoto]

I agree. But why do western leaders keep arguing otherwise?

Because Russia is a big threat to a disunited Europe.