• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Eucharistic Miracle in Poland [W:26]

Gathomas88

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
28,659
Reaction score
18,801
Location
Charleston, South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Catholic Herald - Bleeding Host in Poland Has Hallmarks of a Eucharistic Miracle

Screen-Shot-2016-04-19-at-10.13.25.png


The announcement was made by Bishop Zbigniew Kiernikowski of Legnica on Sunday

A bleeding Host in Poland that “has the hallmarks of a Eucharistic miracle” has been approved for veneration.

The announcement was made by Bishop Zbigniew Kiernikowski of Legnica on Sunday, according to reports.

On Christmas Day in 2013, a consecrated Host fell to the floor, the bishop said in a statement. It was put in a container of water and red stains subsequently appeared on the Host.

After the discovery, the former Bishop of Legnica set up a commission to observe the phenomenon, the statement said.

“In February 2014, a tiny red fragment of the Host was seperated and put on a corporal. The Commission ordered to take samples in order to conduct the thorough tests by the relevant research institutes,” the statement added.

Tests were performed at the Department of Forensic Medicine in Wroclaw at the beginning of 2014. Another study was subsequently performed by the Department of Forensic Medicine of the Pomeranian Medical University in Szczecin, which concluded that “in the histopathological image, the fragments (of the Host) were found containing the fragmented parts of the cross striated muscle. It is most similar to the heart muscle. Tests also determined the tissue to be of human origin, and found that it bore signs of distress.”

Bishop Kiernikowski said the Host bore signs of “a Eucharistic miracle” and explained that in January of this year he took the matter to the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

In April, according to a recommendation made by the Holy See, he asked parish priest Andrzej Ziombrze “to prepare a suitable place” for the Host so that the faithful could venerate it.

“I hope that this will serve to deepen the cult of the Eucharist and will have deep impact on the lives of people facing the Host,” the bishop added.

Long story short, a Consecrated Eucharist (Communion Wafer) fell on the floor Christmas day, and subsequently began to bleed (I'm not sure if it was dropped, and then began to bleed, or was dropped because it was bleeding). A piece of the wafer was excised, and sent to a couple of medical universities for study, who claim to have found muscle tissue in the bread, from a human heart. That heart tissue shows signs of distress.

This is, of course, of extreme relevance to Roman Catholics, as we hold the Eucharist to literally be the "body and blood of Christ," in spiritual form.

I'm sure this won't convince any skeptics out there (and I'm not sure if the Vatican has weighed in yet), but it is an interesting case nonetheless. "Miracles" are regarded as being a thing of the past by most people, not something contemporary.

What'd be really cool is if they could DNA test the fragment, and find that the tissue came from a Jewish man of Middle Eastern descent. lol
 
Last edited:

David_N

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
6,562
Reaction score
2,769
Location
The United States
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I've heard of similar instances, the problem is, they never seem to be able to get any DNA.
 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
51,166
Reaction score
18,254
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Catholic Herald - Bleeding Host in Poland Has Hallmarks of a Eucharistic Miracle



Long story short, a Consecrated Eucharist (Communion Wafer) fell on the floor Christmas day, and subsequently began to bleed (I'm not sure if it was dropped, and then began to bleed, or was dropped because it was bleeding). A piece of the wafer was excised, and sent to a couple of medical universities for study, who claim to have found muscle tissue in the bread, from a human heart. That heart tissue shows signs of distress.

This is, of course, of extreme relevance to Roman Catholics, as we hold the Eucharist to literally be the "body and blood of Christ," in spiritual form.

I'm sure this won't convince any skeptics out there (and I'm not sure if the Vatican has weighed in yet), but it is an interesting case nonetheless. "Miracles" are regarded as being a thing of the past by most people, not something contemporary.

What'd be really cool is if they could DNA test the fragment, and find that the tissue came from a Jewish man of Middle Eastern descent. lol

Let me get this straight. With all the horrors in this world, God chooses to show himself in a cracker in Poland. Maybe he is really one of the Keebler elves.:lol:
 

Gathomas88

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
28,659
Reaction score
18,801
Location
Charleston, South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Let me get this straight. With all the horrors in this world, God chooses to show himself in a cracker in Poland. Maybe he is really one of the Keebler elves.:lol:

A) Most of those "horrors" are pretty soundly of our own making.

B) Even horrors serve their purpose in God's plan.

If legitimate, I'd look at events like those in the OP as being a somewhat more subtle indication to the faithful that, "Yes, God is still here."
 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
51,166
Reaction score
18,254
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
A) Most of those "horrors" are pretty soundly of our own making.

B) Even horrors serve their purpose in God's plan.

If legitimate, I'd look at events like those in the OP as being a somewhat more subtle indication to the faithful that, "Yes, God is still here."

Subtle is an understatement and a far cry from the burning bush. He must be losing his touch.
I thought God made man? Now you say he makes the horrors too and it is part of his "plan"? Perhaps we should re-evaluate God's intentions then.
 

Gathomas88

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
28,659
Reaction score
18,801
Location
Charleston, South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Subtle is an understatement and a far cry from the burning bush. He must be losing his touch.
I thought God made man? Now you say he makes the horrors too and it is part of his "plan"? Perhaps we should re-evaluate God's intentions then.

This life is a test. Like all tests, you are allowed to fail.
 

countryboy

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
18,765
Reaction score
7,408
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Subtle is an understatement and a far cry from the burning bush. He must be losing his touch.
I thought God made man? Now you say he makes the horrors too and it is part of his "plan"? Perhaps we should re-evaluate God's intentions then.

What do you mean "we"? You're not even a believer, are you?
 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
51,166
Reaction score
18,254
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
What do you mean "we"? You're not even a believer, are you?

Do I believe that God choose to show himself in a pagan inspired ritual? You must be kidding.


The Dionysus Connection
Ritual ingestion of wine was already common and sacred at least 500 years before the birth of Jesus. Known as Bacchus in Rome, Dionysus was the Greek god of fertility and ecstasy. He was celebrated through ritual wine drinking and yearly festivals that also included dancing and intoxication. In the "Bacchae," by Greek playwright Euripides, written in the 5th century B.C., it is revealed that not only is Dionysus born of a virgin but his blood is wine to be shared.

The Mithras Mystery
Another prominent pagan religion that was at the height of its popularity at around the same time as Jesus was the cult of Mithras. Mithras actually shares many attributes with Jesus, including a last supper just before Mithras ascended to heaven. Initiates of the Mithras cult partook of a sacred meal in honor of Mithras that included both bread and wine, which were believed to be the flesh and blood of a great bull that was slain by Mithras.
The Pagan Origin of the Communion | People - Opposing Views
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
52,947
Reaction score
34,271
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Let me get this straight. With all the horrors in this world, God chooses to show himself in a cracker in Poland. Maybe he is really one of the Keebler elves.:lol:

gives new meaning to the expression "Christ on a cracker"
 

Gathomas88

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
28,659
Reaction score
18,801
Location
Charleston, South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Do I believe that God choose to show himself in a pagan inspired ritual? You must be kidding.


The Pagan Origin of the Communion | People - Opposing Views

You realize none of that is actually true, right? :roll:

There were no similarities between Christ and Mithras until centuries after Christianity had become an established religion. The Mithras cult actually ripped off Christians, not the other way around.

Dionysus, meanwhile, was conceived by Zeus whoring around (as usual), and was actually born from Zeus's thigh, after being sown into it on the death of his mother (long story). Dionysus was also the god of drunkenness and debauchery. He has nothing at all in common with Christ.
 

Paleocon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
13,309
Reaction score
1,307
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Catholic Herald - Bleeding Host in Poland Has Hallmarks of a Eucharistic Miracle



Long story short, a Consecrated Eucharist (Communion Wafer) fell on the floor Christmas day, and subsequently began to bleed (I'm not sure if it was dropped, and then began to bleed, or was dropped because it was bleeding). A piece of the wafer was excised, and sent to a couple of medical universities for study, who claim to have found muscle tissue in the bread, from a human heart. That heart tissue shows signs of distress.

This is, of course, of extreme relevance to Roman Catholics, as we hold the Eucharist to literally be the "body and blood of Christ," in spiritual form.

I'm sure this won't convince any skeptics out there (and I'm not sure if the Vatican has weighed in yet), but it is an interesting case nonetheless. "Miracles" are regarded as being a thing of the past by most people, not something contemporary.

What'd be really cool is if they could DNA test the fragment, and find that the tissue came from a Jewish man of Middle Eastern descent. lol

Article says the Holy See approved it.

The fact that stuff like this doesn't trigger mass conversions really shows that unbelievers are unbelievers not because of a lack of evidence, but because of unwillingness.

I've heard of similar instances, the problem is, they never seem to be able to get any DNA.

They've blood typed several of them. All AB+, same as the Shroud of Turin.
 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
51,166
Reaction score
18,254
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
You realize none of that is actually true, right? :roll:

There were no similarities between Christ and Mithras until centuries after Christianity had become an established religion. The Mithras cult actually ripped off Christians, not the other way around.

Dionysus, meanwhile, was conceived by Zeus whoring around (as usual), and was actually born from Zeus's thigh, after being sown into it on the death of his mother (long story). Dionysus was also the god of drunkenness and debauchery. He has nothing at all in common with Christ.

Except that wine thing...Oh and it is a falsehood that Mithra ripped off Christianity because it most certainly preceded it.

Augustine, Firmicus, Justin, Tertullian, and others, having perceived the exact resemblance between the religion of Christ and the religion of Mithra, did, with an impertinence only to be equalled by its outrageous absurdity, insist that the devil, jealous and malignant, induced the Persians to establish a religion the exact image of Christianity that was to be—for these worthy saints and sinners of the church could not deny that the worship of Mithra preceded that of Christ—so that, to get out of the ditch, they summoned the devil to their aid, and with the most astonishing assurance, thus accounted for the striking similarity between the Persian and the Christian religion, the worship of Mithra and the worship of Christ; a mode of getting rid of a difficulty that is at once so stupid and absurd, that it would be almost equally stupid and absurd seriously to refute it.
Mithra the Pagan Christ | Mithraism and Christianity | Mithras the Sun God
 

Gathomas88

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
28,659
Reaction score
18,801
Location
Charleston, South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Except that wine thing...

The supposed connection is tenuous at best.

Again, Dionysus was a god of debauchery and drunkenness. Of course his rituals involved wine and feasting.

The Last Supper, contextually speaking, was nothing of the kind. Christ and his Apostles were celebrating the Jewish holiday of Passover.

Oh and it is a falsehood that Mithra ripped off Christianity because it most certainly preceded it.

None of which changes the fact that there is absolutely no record of "similarities" between Christ and Mithras until roughly the third or fourth centuries AD. They most likely took those ideas from Christianity, and added them into their own religion, not the other way around.

The Mithras cult was also never particularly large.
 
Last edited:

RAMOSS

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
52,980
Reaction score
19,637
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The supposed connection is tenuous at best.

Again, Dionysus was a god of debauchery and drunkenness. Of course his rituals involved wine and feasting.

The Last Supper, contextually speaking, was nothing of the kind. Christ and his Apostles were celebrating the Jewish holiday of Passover.



None of which changes the fact that there is absolutely no record of "similarities" between Christ and Mithras until roughly the third or fourth centuries AD. They most likely took those ideas from Christianity, and added them into their own religion, not the other way around.

The Mithras cult was also never particularly large.

It, however, was pretty popular in Tarsus in the 1st century bc though the 1st century ad. Oh Guess who was from Tarsus!! OMG. Paul/Saul. I will point out that the Mithraism in Tarsus in that time period was the Persian version, not the Roman version.
 

Logicman

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
19,284
Reaction score
1,932
Location
United States
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Except that wine thing...Oh and it is a falsehood that Mithra ripped off Christianity because it most certainly preceded it.

Mithra the Pagan Christ | Mithraism and Christianity | Mithras the Sun God

“ We do know that Mithraism, like its mystery competitors, had a basic myth. Mithra was supposedly born when he emerged from a rock; he was carrying a knife and torch and wearing a Phrygian cap. He battled first with the sun and then with a primeval bull, thought to be the first act of creation. Mithra slew the bull, which then became the ground of life for the human race.” Nash and other scholars are unanimous in their conclusions that the so-called “similarities” between Mithra and Christ are not found prior to the advent of Christianity and the birth of Jesus. It was only after Christianity became established that pagan influences merged with and borrowed from Christianity to come up with the alleged similarities with Jesus Christ." - Scholar Ron Nash, Christianity and the Hellenistic World
 

spud_meister

Veni, vidi, dormivi!
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2009
Messages
36,150
Reaction score
21,545
Location
Didjabringabeeralong
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
Gotta say, if I found humab tissue in my crackers, i'd be making a complaint.
 

phattonez

Catholic
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
30,870
Reaction score
4,244
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
The fact that stuff like this doesn't trigger mass conversions really shows that unbelievers are unbelievers not because of a lack of evidence, but because of unwillingness.

In my experience, sin makes you pretty irrational. It's why I didn't accept the teaching on contraception for a while.

They've blood typed several of them. All AB+, same as the Shroud of Turin.

This to me is so amazing.
 

beefheart

You left out a Hoongadoonga
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Messages
39,573
Reaction score
29,566
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
A) Most of those "horrors" are pretty soundly of our own making.

B) Even horrors serve their purpose in God's plan.

If legitimate, I'd look at events like those in the OP as being a somewhat more subtle indication to the faithful that, "Yes, God is still here."

Another supposed supernatural event that is just the usual dogmatic bilge. But I bet that the tithing levels went up!
 

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
34,184
Reaction score
22,932
Location
Southern England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Aged blood deteriorates, and always tests as AB. Not amazing, science.
 
Top Bottom