- Joined
- Jul 31, 2010
- Messages
- 5,395
- Reaction score
- 2,782
- Location
- Minneapolis
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Other
Of course I "get it" from what I've heard. And read, and seen and experienced. My son in law, daughter and three of my grandkids lost their health insurance because of this disaster. They are not rich, they are not poor.
Why did they lose their health insurance? Do you mean that now they have to get better insurance, and since they're middle of the road people, they qualify for subsidies? I don't know, I speak from my own experience, but right now I'm going to pay about half as much for better insurance because of this. What am I missing?
Health care is a right, not a privilege.
What if we're right?
What if the greatest country in the world can do universal healthcare better and cheaper than everybody else?
What if your system is based on violating the rights of people?
The right not to have health care? That's a new one.
Here's a concept: if you don't want universal health care, don't use it. Just stay home when you get deathly ill. Or travel to Somalia. They have the system you want.
Why did they lose their health insurance? Do you mean that now they have to get better insurance, and since they're middle of the road people, they qualify for subsidies? I don't know, I speak from my own experience, but right now I'm going to pay about half as much for better insurance because of this. What am I missing?
We have had a "free market" WITHIN STATES for decades, the premise you hold to SO TIGHTLY.....and it has NOT produced cheaper care, greater coverage or better outcomes for consumers. It does not produce competition within states and certainly will not if expanded since nearly all consumption is local, without knowledge of prices. Beyond this, the concept of profiting from human misery and affliction is immoral.
The right to health means that governments must generate conditions in which everyone can be as healthy as possible. Such conditions range from ensuring availability of health services, healthy and safe working conditions, adequate housing and nutritious food. The right to health does not mean the right to be healthy.Healthcare is a service provided by the labor and resources of others. What makes you think you have a right to make others provide you service?
I was asking because right now is nearly the Annual Enrollment Period for many Medicare plans. Prescriptions, Medicare Advantage, and Medicare supplemental insurance plans. It's early on and we're sending people home early because the calls aren't there and the field agents aren't getting interest. I assure you medicare and associated health insurance plans have much higher demand than these health exchanges and people are doing a crap ton of shopping around, if they're interested at all.Yes, you shop around, compare options, and stew on it till the last minute. Maryland is the only exchange to actually offer statistics on sign ups.
The real question is how many young, healthy people, did they get to sign up. They need 4 out of every 10 signups to be young a healthy, or it collapses under its own weight.
The right to health means that governments must generate conditions in which everyone can be as healthy as possible. Such conditions range from ensuring availability of health services, healthy and safe working conditions, adequate housing and nutritious food. The right to health does not mean the right to be healthy.
The right to health has been enshrined in international and regional human rights treaties as well as national constitutions all over the world.
Examples of UN human rights treaties:
International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR), 1966;
Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW), 1979;
Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), 1989.
Examples of regional human rights treaties:
European Social Charter, 1961;
African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights, 1981; Additional Protocol to the American Convention on Human Rights in the Area of Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (the Protocol of San Salvador), 1988.
The International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (1966) in Article 12 states that steps for the realization of the right to health include those that:
reduce infant mortality and ensure the healthy development of the child;
improve environmental and industrial hygiene;
prevent, treat and control epidemic, endemic, occupational and other diseases; and
create conditions to ensure access to health care for all.
General Comment on the Right to Health
To clarify and operationalize the above provisions, the UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, which monitors compliance with the ICESCR, adopted a General Comment on the Right to Health in 2000.
The General Comment states that the right to health extends not only to timely and appropriate health care but also to the underlying determinants of health, such as access to safe and potable water and adequate sanitation, an adequate supply of safe food, nutrition and housing, healthy occupational and environmental conditions, and access to health-related education and information, including on sexual and reproductive health.
WHO | The right to health
The right to health means that governments must generate conditions in which everyone can be as healthy as possible. Such conditions range from ensuring availability of health services, healthy and safe working conditions, adequate housing and nutritious food. The right to health does not mean the right to be healthy.
European Social Charter, 1961;
African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights, 1981; Additional Protocol to the American Convention on Human Rights in the Area of Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (the Protocol of San Salvador), 1988.
The International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (1966) in Article 12 states that steps for the realization of the right to health include those that:
reduce infant mortality and ensure the healthy development of the child;
prevent, treat and control epidemic, endemic, occupational and other diseases; and
create conditions to ensure access to health care for all.
General Comment on the Right to Health
The General Comment states that the right to health extends not only to timely and appropriate health care but also to the underlying determinants of health, such as access to safe and potable water and adequate sanitation, an adequate supply of safe food, nutrition and housing, healthy occupational and environmental conditions, and access to health-related education and information, including on sexual and reproductive health.
Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW), 1979;
Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), 1989.
They lost their insurance because Obamadon'tcare forced the price up that his employer had to pay to continue his insurance. A sound business decision on his employers part I might add based on the added expense the government has placed on the employer. Plus maybe he will be lucky and get to keep his job at least a little longer, unlike so many others that Obamadon'tcare has placed in the out of work line. It's been happening all around the country but of course, the deniers don't know anything about it. Better insurance? Get real. If it's not affordable in both monthly expenditures and what his out of pocket expenses would be, it's impossible to be better than what his employer provided to him. Besides, it's also impossible to be better insurance if the government has to foot part of the tab to get people to buy it. They have inflated the price by requiring people to purchase non needed coverage. Not a good deal for most anybody, taxpayers included.
I'm sorry that your family is employed by people who don't care about their employees. That's my take on it. But it may be good news for your family. A study by the Stanford School of Medicine projects that 37 million people will choose plans through the government rather than continue with plans through their employer. The CBO projects that there could be 20 million people who lose coverage through their employer by 2019.... or there could be a net gain of 3 million people who are covered by their employer. We don't really know what will happen actually, but the company I work for isn't cutting anybody's hours or eliminating anybody's coverage. Neither is the company my girlfriend works for, or the company my only not-yet-retired parent works for. I don't have friends who have said they are losing coverage, but I have friends who are happy to be getting insured for the first time in their life.
Maybe it's just that we live in different parts of the country. My state is really embracing the ACA, maybe yours isn't. But I'd be surprised if there weren't at least a few people you know who are celebrating the fact that on January 1st, their premium will cost half as much for better coverage. That's how it is for me. And AGAIN, we're comparing the health care law to nothing, because Republicans never allowed any changes to our flawed system. Pre-existing conditions denied, the medicare donut hole still open, no quality assurance for consumers, all that jazz.
Wow, how can someone be so poorly informed but at least you are showing that you have no problem taking from someone else and making paying for your healthcare someone else's responsibility. Where does it stop? where do you draw the line on what the govt. is able to force you to do? Where do you draw the line and say this is my responsibility and no one else's?
Why is it always Republicans fault or someone else's for your own poor choices and mistakes? Why is it that liberals believe that what they want is a priority but what they are against is to be fought?
Are you referring to my poor choice to have an auto-immune disease which was entirely due to my genetics? Is that what you're talking about? I have no idea what you're talking about.
If your house was on fire, and the fire department comes to put it out, would you portray that as being selfish? You want me to pay for your house to be saved? Selfish, right? Or if a terrorist comes to your town and tries to kill everybody with chemical weapons, it would really make me sick if the FBI tried to stop them. My tax dollars paying for your town to be saved? Did you receive an education? I hope not. It would make me sick to think that you would learn on my tax dollars. Where does it end? Are you so selfish that you would put your own kids through school? Hold on a second I just literally vomited thinking about paying for your kids to go to school.
Now, insurance should be illegal. Because I paid into insurance for years and never got sick. So basically they were stealing my money to pay for other people who made poor choices like choosing to have cancer or choosing to need a leg amputated. All marxists, of course. Nothing makes me as sick as the thought of helping somebody with cancer! Who would allow such madness? I guess some people think it's a good idea to have a system where people pay a fair amount for health insurance and the amount you pay is partially based on how much you earn. Idiots, these people. Some people think it's a good idea to use the government to help others. Nothing is so evil as that idea. The only ethical thing to do is let sick people die and only use the government for things like making sure corporations keep increasing their profits and killing people in foreign countries.
I love America, and I thank god America isn't anything like you want it to be. If it was the way you wanted it to be, there wouldn't be anything left to love.
I'm sorry that your family is employed by people who don't care about their employees. That's my take on it. But it may be good news for your family. A study by the Stanford School of Medicine projects that 37 million people will choose plans through the government rather than continue with plans through their employer. The CBO projects that there could be 20 million people who lose coverage through their employer by 2019.... or there could be a net gain of 3 million people who are covered by their employer. We don't really know what will happen actually, but the company I work for isn't cutting anybody's hours or eliminating anybody's coverage. Neither is the company my girlfriend works for, or the company my only not-yet-retired parent works for. I don't have friends who have said they are losing coverage, but I have friends who are happy to be getting insured for the first time in their life.
Maybe it's just that we live in different parts of the country. My state is really embracing the ACA, maybe yours isn't. But I'd be surprised if there weren't at least a few people you know who are celebrating the fact that on January 1st, their premium will cost half as much for better coverage. That's how it is for me. And AGAIN, we're comparing the health care law to nothing, because Republicans never allowed any changes to our flawed system. Pre-existing conditions denied, the medicare donut hole still open, no quality assurance for consumers, all that jazz.
Are you referring to my poor choice to have an auto-immune disease which was entirely due to my genetics? Is that what you're talking about? I have no idea what you're talking about.
If your house was on fire, and the fire department comes to put it out, would you portray that as being selfish? You want me to pay for your house to be saved? Selfish, right? Or if a terrorist comes to your town and tries to kill everybody with chemical weapons, it would really make me sick if the FBI tried to stop them. My tax dollars paying for your town to be saved? Did you receive an education? I hope not. It would make me sick to think that you would learn on my tax dollars. Where does it end? Are you so selfish that you would put your own kids through school? Hold on a second I just literally vomited thinking about paying for your kids to go to school.
Now, insurance should be illegal. Because I paid into insurance for years and never got sick. So basically they were stealing my money to pay for other people who made poor choices like choosing to have cancer or choosing to need a leg amputated. All marxists, of course. Nothing makes me as sick as the thought of helping somebody with cancer! Who would allow such madness? I guess some people think it's a good idea to have a system where people pay a fair amount for health insurance and the amount you pay is partially based on how much you earn. Idiots, these people. Some people think it's a good idea to use the government to help others. Nothing is so evil as that idea. The only ethical thing to do is let sick people die and only use the government for things like making sure corporations keep increasing their profits and killing people in foreign countries.
I love America, and I thank god America isn't anything like you want it to be. If it was the way you wanted it to be, there wouldn't be anything left to love.
Are you referring to my poor choice to have an auto-immune disease which was entirely due to my genetics? Is that what you're talking about? I have no idea what you're talking about.
If your house was on fire, and the fire department comes to put it out, would you portray that as being selfish? You want me to pay for your house to be saved? Selfish, right? Or if a terrorist comes to your town and tries to kill everybody with chemical weapons, it would really make me sick if the FBI tried to stop them. My tax dollars paying for your town to be saved? Did you receive an education? I hope not. It would make me sick to think that you would learn on my tax dollars. Where does it end? Are you so selfish that you would put your own kids through school? Hold on a second I just literally vomited thinking about paying for your kids to go to school.
Now, insurance should be illegal. Because I paid into insurance for years and never got sick. So basically they were stealing my money to pay for other people who made poor choices like choosing to have cancer or choosing to need a leg amputated. All marxists, of course. Nothing makes me as sick as the thought of helping somebody with cancer! Who would allow such madness? I guess some people think it's a good idea to have a system where people pay a fair amount for health insurance and the amount you pay is partially based on how much you earn. Idiots, these people. Some people think it's a good idea to use the government to help others. Nothing is so evil as that idea. The only ethical thing to do is let sick people die and only use the government for things like making sure corporations keep increasing their profits and killing people in foreign countries.
I love America, and I thank god America isn't anything like you want it to be. If it was the way you wanted it to be, there wouldn't be anything left to love.
"Try to imagine a regulation of labor imposed by force that is not a violation of liberty; a transfer of wealth imposed by force that is not a violation of property. If you cannot reconcile these contradictions, then you must conclude that the law cannot organize labor and industry without organizing injustice." - Frédéric Bastiat
I heard they didn't anticipate a large number of enrollees in the first month or so because:
1. The insurance wouldn't take effect until Jan. 1
2. People are still learning and weighing their options
3. A lot of people wait until the last minute
Good thing huh? Since the software is screwed up.
you expect perfection from software designed by the government?
No, but the liberals did. Oh wait, that's you. You know how many millions were wasted on this?
what government program has been implemented without glitch's of some kind?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?