You're still drawing the "do thing/don't do thing" false dichotomy. Bringing your argument back to light bulbs, nobody has ever suggested you not be able to light your home at all. Nor has anyone suggested that electricity be relegated only to tasks that have some "pressing need."
Maybe you're just upset that your argument wasn't as debate-ending as you thought it was.
I don't see how the government is limiting your choice, you're still completely free to choose whatever lightbulbs you want.
But you are assuming that it is government that control the environment and without it people will behave irresponsibly even while the facts, including your examples, prove otherwise. Why wouldn't individuals make the choice for cleaner air and water? There are a great many ways to exert others to respect the environment, including the media, environmental groups, public protests, etc. The assumption that governments will always act in the public interest without these public pressure groups, also as per your examples, is unlikely.
I believe that public shaming also works, if people are allowed a free media and public protests. I have become very suspicious of government control because, once we give it to them, it is very difficult to get it back. The EPA will now never disappear no matter how clean the air and water might be. And of course its budget will always grow and the bureaucracy, laws and codes increase. Otherwise the government, according to the self interested, is 'not respecting the environment'.
Rivers that were so polluted they caught fire.
Correction......your completely free to choose from the lightbulbs that the Nanny state approves of........
With the same people deciding to clean things up. The lakefront and rivers around Cleveland wasn't cleaned up because the federal government forced it. It was because the people wanted it.
That's not a limitation on your choice of lightbulbs to buy, that's a limitation on producers that produce lightbulbs. You still have free choice on what products you can buy.
Dirty is usually cheaper. It's cheaper to dump mercury in your neighbor's back yard than it is to dispose of it properly. The free market has never been good at reducing large-scale pollution. The dirty company operates cheaper, outcompetes the clean company, and takes over the industry.
If you can show some common examples where this has actually happened, it might support your argument.
If you can show some common examples where this has actually happened, it might support your argument.
China Mexico India
perhaps you recall Bhopal or the massive air pollution in Mexico city
Environmental Policy does not result from some decree by Caesar, it results from citizens petitioning their government to regulate polluters. When the Cuyahoga River caught fire several times in the late 60s, what cleaned it up was not a community trash pick up, it was the citizens of Ohio and other states where industries were poisoning their air and water, petitioning and lobbying the government to regulate polluting industries. In fact, the Cuyahoga River Fires were the poster child for building the public support for the creation of the EPA and the passage of the Clean Water Act.
Totalitarian nations usually have horrible environmental records because its not the governments that force environmental regulations on the people, its the people that force governments to enact environmental regulations and protections.
China Mexico India
perhaps you recall Bhopal or the massive air pollution in Mexico city
Environmental Policy does not result from some decree by Caesar, it results from citizens petitioning their government to regulate polluters. When the Cuyahoga River caught fire several times in the late 60s,
China Mexico India
perhaps you recall Bhopal or the massive air pollution in Mexico city
Grant said:.......Your FREEDOM to CHOOSE.......disappears a bit more with every piece of Democrat legislation.........
It disappears with all kinds of things that limit production. Maybe you should complain to Maglite for limiting your freedom of choice for not producing a solar powered flashlight?
There is massive pollution in most third world nations, and there are no lack of laws. Education is the key.
It disappears with all kinds of things that limit production.
Maybe you should complain to Maglite for limiting your freedom of choice for not producing a solar powered flashlight?
Ergo, my freedom of choice has not been effected.
Sure it has. Can you choose to buy solar powered Maglites?
No lack of laws? Kenya, with the most advanced constitution, perhaps most transparent government (second only, maybe, to SA) and relatively limited corruption... will institute environmental regulations for industries in ~4 years, as scheduled in the constitution. It dumps nearly untreated sewege into Lake Victoria - to some extent because the Lake is owned by several countries and, as a "common", is screwed. Most countries here in Africa have nothing in the way of environmental laws. Fortunately, without having undergone industrialization, the pollution is limited. Mining, waste disposal and sewage are the majority of problems. Aside from the aforementioned sources, the major sources are foreign-funded conventional agricultural schemes, especially cut-flower (for euro export) greenhouses. We can hope that, before industrialization occurs, laws will be in place and they will be enforced (unlike Costa Rica).
Democracy favors the environment. Our worst pollution (globally) occurs under tyranny in indistrialized nations (where people do not have the right to petition the government for environmental action). We need world democracy to end wars and to halt global pollution - DPT for the win.
Sure it has. Can you choose to buy solar powered Maglites?
Really??? Did someone else post a quote from a recently published peer reviewed scientific study verifying that broken CFL bulbs emit mercury beyond recommended levels ?????
Yes, as a matter of fact you did.
Give me a guesstimate on how many EVIL incandescent light bulbs you have broken over your lifetime?
Disagreement does not equal "hate".
Do you exhibit this persecution complex in your real life like you do here on DP???
Sure you can. Finding one, however, might be difficult.
Sure I can if they are available
Even though I produce corn and E-85 has nearly tripled farmers profits it was a complete failure. And I doubt ill ever drive a hybrid escalade in 100 years.I hope so. If the car you're driving still pollutes our land and air and we have an alternative that's faster, uses only green fuels, stronger, safer and better in every way possible, I certainly hope the government bans the old ones.
That's right. It was the citizens of the States involved which engineered the clean-up, which is as it should be. First by neighborhoods, then by counties and then by States. The best government is local government. and if your county chooses to ban light bulbs, for example, after serious debate, then they can do so.
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