End of the oil age and the rise of renewables/nuclear/new sources. (1 Viewer)

[JohnRawls]

The problem is so far, the massive solar farms in the west havent stood the test of time or lived up to measured expectancy.

11 years after a celebrated opening, massive solar plant faces a bleak future in the Mojave Desert

What was once the largest solar power plant of its type in the world appears headed for closure just 11 years after opening.

apnews.com

That is concentrated solar/thermal solar. Barely anyone builds them anymore basically since solar panels/photovoltaics are way cheaper overall.

 

[JohnRawls]

Ummm…that’s not correct. I have solar panels (and I’m getting more, mostly because I don’t want to pay PGE anything) plus a couple of storage batteries that supply nearly all the power I need. Last year my total electric bill was $9.71. Installing solar panels and batteries comes with a nice 30% federal tax credit too. I’ll be selling power back to the electric companies now. The break even point is just 4.2 years. I’m not doing all this because it’s going to make a significant difference in the human caused global warming (although that’s a nice side benefit). I’m doing it because for me it makes financial sense.
It’s worth looking into if you can afford the significant initial cash outlay.

California must be nice then, it is around 10 years in Estonia, may be a bit longer nowadays with the electricity companies catching on and more people actually installing them. This is very good for first adopters but as more people adopt solar panels on their houses and start selling, the more you run in to the problem that grid is oversaturated more often during very sunny days so the market price falls basically to almost 0. So yeah technically you don't pay much or collect credits to pay off later but with more adoption it kinda gets worse.

 

[Ethel2]

California must be nice then, it is around 10 years in Estonia, may be a bit longer nowadays with the electricity companies catching on and more people actually installing them. This is very good for first adopters but as more people adopt solar panels on their houses and start selling, the more you run in to the problem that grid is oversaturated more often during very sunny days so the market price falls basically to almost 0. So yeah technically you don't pay much or collect credits to pay off later but with more adoption it kinda gets worse.

The current laws in California require PGE (or whatever your electric company is) to purchase from the solar generator excess power created at the same rate they would charge you to supply it. It’s called “time of use” whereby electricity at peak demand periods is more expensive.
It’s a bit more complicated than that because understandably the power companies are always trying to reduce the repayment rate. I got in early so I’m in something called “NEM2” which pays a decent amount for the excess power my panels make. Those in NEM 1 do better; those in NEM 3 not nearly as good-but it’s still a good deal if you also get storage batteries. Typically the panels generate more kw than the installers tell you because they don’t want to have to come back and install more panels for free because their system isn’t producing the power promised. My system promised 6900 kw but delivered 7884 kw last year.

 

[Revelation]

It is good to not post nonsense if you want to communicate

I still have no clue what you mean except that your posts seem like a chant of homage to 2 Doll.

i don't have time to get into it: very busy today.

just a news article regarding the Insanity that germans are living with, and the inability of many to even pay their electric bills.

the Oligarchs want the same for usa, oh joy.


i post what i know at the time and let some one else handle the rest of the details. that is what most of us do because we are NOT walking Encyclopedias.

the germans are hosed, don't be like germany. forget renewables there is no net gain from them, as in wind energy.

do a Deep Dive and find out for yourself.


.

 

[noonereal]

germans are hosed, don't be like germany. forget renewables there is no net gain from them, as in wind energy.

do a Deep Dive and find out for yourself.

Who is hosed?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Pretty much, it is not just Electric vehicles but the production of electricity itself has shifted to renewables of different sort because they have become cheaper. I don't think that it is possible to buckle this trend since it has become economically more profitable to use EVs(By the way, thanks commies in China) and renewables(general research over the decades).

Information for Europe and consider that Europe is not that great for all renewables like sun in the first place, but we are good with wind:
View attachment 67569807

This is IRENA estimates between 2010-2019 for costs (in 2025 we are even more cheaper for renewables)
View attachment 67569809

2025 renewables compared to 2014:
View attachment 67569810

Do you have a graph of black outs and brown outs for the morons of the rotters continent?

 

[bomberfox]

Yep

There's electric trucks and trains.

Yeah, petro would be hard to replace in jet engines. Jet engines, however, might be not so hard to replace.

Ships are already powered by nukes. And electric motors.

Local electricity generation is far more efficient than transporting oil hundreds of thousands of miles. The nuke plant that powers an aircraft carrier can power a small town.

Lubricating oil can and often is produced from plants. Here, BC, sawmill equipment that's over the river is lubricated with plant-based oil.

You pretty sure that can't be done without petrol products?

Oil has uses, sure, but using it for fuel is hundreds of years old low technology that's only still around because there's so much money tied up in it. It could well have been replaced generations ago if there wasn't so much resistance from the oil-igarchy who make money like drug cartel bosses from it.

And motorcycles are going electric.

 

[bomberfox]

i mean we can go forward or pretend fossil fuel giants didnt know we were correct a couple decades before i was born lol.

 

[stealthycat]

To be expected, Gas is very cheap in the US because it is a byproduct of oil shale extraction. This in itself kinda changes the profitability calculation for renewables. For places that don't have the story is much more easier especially for heavy importers.

using more electricity = burning more fossil fuels

 

[Revelation]

And motorcycles are going electric.

and Harley can't sell theirs. common knowledge: Harley riders like their old gas bikes with the Thumpa sound and power.
Harley could make smaller electric bikes that are practical for urban riders; but their Corporate elite would rather makes Motorcycles that Harley riders do not like and do not buy. typical of so much Green stuff. groan.
people that make Fat Paychecks can't seem to figure out how to make Practical stuff; i could easily suggest how to make better products but the Corporate Elite know it all.
Laptops for example, Apple used to make replaceable ram and hard drives. no more, now the Thin Garbage and no repair is how they make things.
Windows watched that and they said we can make Junk Laptops too. so now all their stuff is Soldered in, dumb de dum dumb. but the Sheep bought them groan.
even Lenovo made their last 'great Lenovo' T480 with replaceable everything.......no more.
so i bought a refurb which will be in tomorrow.....LW
do you see the Pattern yet? probably not, usually wealthy people just throw money at things..........i don't

i wanted an electric bicycle and was going to build one, but parts are not generic. the electric bike companies go out of business fast; the bikes become disposable if they work at all. or go on fire, ask those who lost their apartments in NYC fires.

i was going to buy a Trek bike on sale, till i found out the batteries can only be replaced high price at the shop.

well now i am back to pedaling. as they say: the Devil is in the details; don't get yur info from those pushing Electric.

another one: 'First time users are losers'.

for the Starry Eyed, get one of these CHEAP....



.

The 2025 Harley-Davidson LiveWire is redefining the electric motorcycle experience, combining cutting-edge technology with the iconic style and performance Harley is known for. With an impressive range, rapid acceleration, and advanced rider-assist features, the LiveWire promises an exhilarating ride without the noise and emissions of traditional combustion engines. However, due to a shift in Harley-Davidson's sales strategy, many dealers are struggling to move stock of this electric powerhouse.

This creates an incredible opportunity for you to snag a 2025 Harley-Davidson LiveWire at a heavy discount, as dealers can’t sell them as quickly as expected. Whether you’re an electric vehicle enthusiast or simply looking to upgrade your ride with a powerful and eco-friendly option, now is the time to take advantage of this rare situation.

Don’t miss out on this limited-time offer – with Harley-Davidson pushing forward into the future of electric motorcycles, you can be among the first to own a cutting-edge model at a price that’s almost too good to believe.

 

[Revelation]

and Harley can't sell theirs. common knowledge: Harley riders like their old gas bikes with the Thumpa sound and power.
Harley could make smaller electric bikes that are practical for urban riders; but their Corporate elite would rather makes Motorcycles that Harley riders do not like and do not buy. typical of so much Green stuff. groan.
people that make Fat Paychecks can't seem to figure out how to make Practical stuff; i could easily suggest how to make better products but the Corporate Elite know it all.
Laptops for example, Apple used to make replaceable ram and hard drives. no more, now the Thin Garbage and no repair is how they make things.
Windows watched that and they said we can make Junk Laptops too. so now all their stuff is Soldered in, dumb de dum dumb. but the Sheep bought them groan.
even Lenovo made their last 'great Lenovo' T480 with replaceable everything.......no more.
so i bought a refurb which will be in tomorrow.....LW
do you see the Pattern yet? probably not, usually wealthy people just throw money at things..........i don't

i wanted an electric bicycle and was going to build one, but parts are not generic. the electric bike companies go out of business fast; the bikes become disposable if they work at all. or go on fire, ask those who lost their apartments in NYC fires.

i was going to buy a Trek bike on sale, till i found out the batteries can only be replaced high price at the shop.

well now i am back to pedaling. as they say: the Devil is in the details; don't get yur info from those pushing Electric.

another one: 'First time users are losers'.

for the Starry Eyed, get one of these CHEAP....



.

and i happen to like Electric every thing, but when the Air Heads get into the business, then Practical people like me head for the exits.

same with Everything in Life: Politics.....meh we're screwed. Religion? mostly hosed Tariffs? who knows

The Economy? meh send it to china, cause work is beneath us

Banking? create funny printable money that inflates.

Laws? Ignorance of the Law IS an excuse said one cop who was a Law Expert.


how are we doing sheeeep?





Why are Harley-Davidson dealerships struggling to sell certain bikes? In this video, we break down 7 Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Dealers Can’t Sell—and explore the surprising reasons why. From overhyped performance models to overpriced touring machines, some bikes just don’t connect with buyers the way Harley hoped.We’ll take a deep dive into each model, including the Softail Standard, Street Rod, Road Glide CVO, Sportster S, LiveWire, Pan America 1250, and Nightster. Find out where they went wrong, what riders really think, and why some of these bikes might be sitting in showrooms a lot longer than expected.Whether you're a longtime Harley fan, a potential buyer, or just love motorcycle industry insights, this is a video you don’t want to miss.

Chapters: 0:00 – Intro1:10 – #7 Softail Standard3:20 – #6 Street Rod5:00 – #5 Road Glide CVO7:00 – #4 Sportster S9:00 – #3 LiveWire11:00 – #2 Pan America 125013:00 – #1 Nightster15:00 – Final Thoughts

 

[uptower]

Yep

There's electric trucks and trains.

Yeah, petro would be hard to replace in jet engines. Jet engines, however, might be not so hard to replace.

Ships are already powered by nukes. And electric motors.

Local electricity generation is far more efficient than transporting oil hundreds of thousands of miles. The nuke plant that powers an aircraft carrier can power a small town.

Lubricating oil can and often is produced from plants. Here, BC, sawmill equipment that's over the river is lubricated with plant-based oil.

You pretty sure that can't be done without petrol products?

Oil has uses, sure, but using it for fuel is hundreds of years old low technology that's only still around because there's so much money tied up in it. It could well have been replaced generations ago if there wasn't so much resistance from the oil-igarchy who make money like drug cartel bosses from it.

Dunno about replacing generations ago, but we'd be well into it now if that's when the work had started.

It's probably a hundred year transition if you look at the shift from burning wood and dung to coal, then from coal to oil and petroleum.

But with reneables, we lost the first thirty years to lobbyists and litigation so it's been much slower than it should.

 

[uptower]

and Harley can't sell theirs. common knowledge: Harley riders like their old gas bikes with the Thumpa sound and power.
Harley could make smaller electric bikes that are practical for urban riders; but their Corporate elite would rather makes Motorcycles that Harley riders do not like and do not buy. typical of so much Green stuff. groan.
people that make Fat Paychecks can't seem to figure out how to make Practical stuff; i could easily suggest how to make better products but the Corporate Elite know it all.
Laptops for example, Apple used to make replaceable ram and hard drives. no more, now the Thin Garbage and no repair is how they make things.
Windows watched that and they said we can make Junk Laptops too. so now all their stuff is Soldered in, dumb de dum dumb. but the Sheep bought them groan.
even Lenovo made their last 'great Lenovo' T480 with replaceable everything.......no more.
so i bought a refurb which will be in tomorrow.....LW
do you see the Pattern yet? probably not, usually wealthy people just throw money at things..........i don't

i wanted an electric bicycle and was going to build one, but parts are not generic. the electric bike companies go out of business fast; the bikes become disposable if they work at all. or go on fire, ask those who lost their apartments in NYC fires.

i was going to buy a Trek bike on sale, till i found out the batteries can only be replaced high price at the shop.

well now i am back to pedaling. as they say: the Devil is in the details; don't get yur info from those pushing Electric.

another one: 'First time users are losers'.

for the Starry Eyed, get one of these CHEAP....



.

The 2025 Harley-Davidson LiveWire is redefining the electric motorcycle experience, combining cutting-edge technology with the iconic style and performance Harley is known for. With an impressive range, rapid acceleration, and advanced rider-assist features, the LiveWire promises an exhilarating ride without the noise and emissions of traditional combustion engines. However, due to a shift in Harley-Davidson's sales strategy, many dealers are struggling to move stock of this electric powerhouse.

This creates an incredible opportunity for you to snag a 2025 Harley-Davidson LiveWire at a heavy discount, as dealers can’t sell them as quickly as expected. Whether you’re an electric vehicle enthusiast or simply looking to upgrade your ride with a powerful and eco-friendly option, now is the time to take advantage of this rare situation.

Don’t miss out on this limited-time offer – with Harley-Davidson pushing forward into the future of electric motorcycles, you can be among the first to own a cutting-edge model at a price that’s almost too good to believe.

Apart from a handful of enthusiasts the Harley draws antisocial types who get off on making a noise to intimidate or at least inconvenience others.

Nice to see the makers are trying to change but the only way to to get their legacy bikes ff the road s legislation. That's a way off.

 

[JohnRawls]

Do you have a graph of black outs and brown outs for the morons of the rotters continent?

Besides the recent blackout in Spain, we didn't really have anything serious in the last 20 years I think that is why it was a story in the first place. I don't even remember any blackouts even happening in my lifetime besides perhaps the most recent one.

 

[JohnRawls]

i mean we can go forward or pretend fossil fuel giants didnt know we were correct a couple decades before i was born lol.

The economics of renewables and EVs have changed so much especially in recent years. Not sure what you are referring to but renewables/EVs weren't exactly that good lets say 20 years ago or even 10 years ago.

 

[bomberfox]

The economics of renewables and EVs have changed so much especially in recent years. Not sure what you are referring to but renewables/EVs weren't exactly that good lets say 20 years ago or even 10 years ago.

Lets just say lots of those same manufacturers refused to even start on it. Im talking about how big oil knew about climate change decades before i was born.

 

[JohnRawls]

Lets just say lots of those same manufacturers refused to even start on it. Im talking about how big oil knew about climate change decades before i was born.

I mean, sure but that hardly changes anything for renewables pro or against them. Mass adoption only comes when it is economically viable/profitable in comparison to something else. Irrelevant what industry and for what reason we are doing something, if that happens there is no stopping it and private investment will pump it to the moon with money.

Hence why MAGA or anybody else complaining about it or trying to shut it down is irrelevant. They won't be able to. Money flows to where money is made efficiently.

 

[Revelation]

Apart from a handful of enthusiasts the Harley draws antisocial types who get off on making a noise to intimidate or at least inconvenience others.

so does Chevrolet and Ford

my friends ride Harleys, so do our Pastors at church. maybe update your opinion.

(i rode motorcycles for 40 years, and yes the noise is Retarded and unsafe. some mods are really stupid, but the price of freedom like the silly Ape hangers, groan. give me handling or give me death, duh)

Nice to see the makers are trying to change but the only way to to get their legacy bikes ff the road s legislation. That's a way off.

no, we need to have more Civilized gubment, work, church, families, forums and whatever else i forgot.

i notice people on this forum very one sided.

well i pray for the Orange, even though i know eventually they have a certain Dark Maga agenda in mind.

.

 

[uptower]

so does Chevrolet and Ford

my friends ride Harleys, so do our Pastors at church. maybe update your opinion.

(i rode motorcycles for 40 years, and yes the noise is Retarded and unsafe. some mods are really stupid, but the price of freedom like the silly Ape hangers, groan. give me handling or give me death, duh)




no, we need to have more Civilized gubment, work, church, families, forums and whatever else i forgot.

i notice people on this forum very one sided.

well i pray for the Orange, even though i know eventually they have a certain Dark Maga agenda in mind.

.

You'd be the handful of enthusiasts then?

 

[tharock220]

I believe the global economy will transition away from fossil fuels, and it's a process that is already underway, but as it stands right now, petroleum use is projected to be higher this year than it ever has in history.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/global_oil.php

And that's okay. We can continue to use our current resources while we plan for the future. It doesn't have to be an either or proposition. My wife is on her second Cayenne hybrid, I work for Shell.

 

[JohnRawls]

I believe the global economy will transition away from fossil fuels, and it's a process that is already underway, but as it stands right now, petroleum use is projected to be higher this year than it ever has in history.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/global_oil.php

And that's okay. We can continue to use our current resources while we plan for the future. It doesn't have to be an either or proposition. My wife is on her second Cayenne hybrid, I work for Shell.

The drop will probably start in 1-2 years and accelerate in 5 if the trend on EVs continues or at least stays the same.

There are 40 million EVs in the world right now, 14 million we added last year. Average car consumes 12 barrels of oil per year give or take for an average driver. 40 000 000 * 12 / 365 = 1 315 000 barrels per day we save because of them. And if we continue adding 14 000 000 vehicles per year that is 460 000 barrels per day saved additionally every year.

 

[tharock220]

The drop will probably start in 1-2 years and accelerate in 5 if the trend on EVs continues or at least stays the same.

It's currently projected to increase in 2026 as well.

I think you're just guessing at the future here, or mabye you have some good insight. I don't know.

 

[JohnRawls]

It's currently projected to increase in 2026 as well.

I think you're just guessing at the future here, or mabye you have some good insight. I don't know.

I am guessing but it is a calculated guess that has some logic to back it up.

 

[tharock220]

I am guessing but it is a calculated guess that has some logic to back it up.

Saw your edit. You're assuming every new EV means one less ICE vehicle. That isn't the case. That number continues to grow, albiet more slowly.

 

[JohnRawls]

Saw your edit. You're assuming every new EV means one less ICE vehicle. That isn't the case. That number continues to grow, albiet more slowly.

That is true. There is a break point though at a certain number where that won't matter. By the looks of it, we have passed it already, the number of ICE vehicles sold peaked in 2017 or something like that and just keeps dropping heavily and being replaced with Electric. ICE car sales dropped to the level 2000-2005 so went 20-25 years back. Mostly because of Electric vehicles and to some degree because of Covid and inflation.