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Elizabeth Warren releases DNA testing: she has Native American background

ataraxia said:
Why not? She claimed heritage, not “tribal citizenship.” I think that’s where you are getting yourself all confused. And Trump has acknowledged that, only saying that he meant IF she won the Democratic nomination, NOT that he was looking for some kind of eligibility criteria for tribal citizenship.

Are you saying you know more about what Trump actually meant more than Trump himself?
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He (Trump) said "show you're an Indian". Twice I posted the exact quote to you.
 
hanger4 said:
He (Trump) said "show you're an Indian". Twice I posted the exact quote to you.
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That means show me you got Indian blood in you. How does anyone go from someone saying that their parents once told them they may have some Indian heritage to thinking that they were claiming to be full blooded Indians? He didn’t specify how much. He didn’t specify that it had to meet some specific tribal citizenship eligilbilty requirements. He was just questioning that she had ANY Indian blood in her.

So she showed him.

And he is not refusing to pay now because it doesn’t meet some specific tribal citizenship eligibility criteria. He is refusing to pay because he NOW says he really meant that he would pay only if he was in a debate with her. Presumably, if he brought the issue up during the debate, and, as he says, carefully threw the DNA kit at her, he would only pay if she would, just as carefully, throw these results back at him.

Nothing there in his excuse about not being a real full blooded Indian. That’s your story. Not Trump’s. It’s a good story. I like it. Too bad Trump didn’t go with that when trying to explain what he really meant. I like your version of what he really meant better. More believable.
 
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ataraxia said:
Even Trump isn’t saying that story. He’s got another one for us: that he meant ONLY if he ends up debating her. Nothing about not meeting tribal citizenship eligibility criteria.

I like your story better though. Too bad it’s not the official one. They should’ve talked to you first!
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*Nothing about not meeting tribal citizenship eligibility criteria.*

^^ this is strawman, Trumps quote is quite specific, your disingenuous is quite telling.
 
ataraxia said:
That means show me you got Indian blood in you. He didn’t specify how much. He didn’t specify that it had to meet tribal citizenship eligilbilty requirements.

So she did.

And he is not refusing to pay because it doesn’t meet some specific tribal citizenship eligibility criteria. He is refusing to pay because he NOW says he really meant that he would pay only if he was in a debate with her. Presumably, if he brought the issue up during the debate, and, as he says, carefully threw the DNA kit at her, he would only pay if she would, just as carefully, throw these results back at him.

Nothing there in his excuse about being a real full blooded Indian. That’s your story. Not Trump’s.
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You're right, I'm sorry, "show me your're Indian" doesn't mean prove you're an Indian :lamo which she didn't. And it's unlikely the test even proved she has any American Indian DNA concerning her DNA was compared to Mexican, Peruvian and Colombian DNA.

This is becoming more amusing with every post :thumbs:
 
hanger4 said:
*Nothing about not meeting tribal citizenship eligibility criteria.*

^^ this is strawman, Trumps quote is quite specific, your disingenuous is quite telling.
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So when she said that she remembers hearing her parents tell her she has some Indian heritage somewhere in her background, Trump thought that meant she was claiming to be a full-bred Indian? Man, how dumb do you have to be to think that?

And how come his objection now is that he meant only in a presidential debate? He says nothing about not meeting some full blooded Indian requirement. You know more than Trump what he really meant to say?
 
hanger4 said:
You're right, I'm sorry, "show me your're Indian" doesn't mean prove you're an Indian :lamo which she didn't. And it's unlikely the test even proved she has any American Indian DNA concerning her DNA was compared to Mexican, Peruvian and Colombian DNA.

This is becoming more amusing with every post :thumbs:
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Even if true, since when did being “Mexican, Peruvian, or Colombian” Indian become different than other Native American?
 
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hanger4 said:
You're right, I'm sorry, "show me your're Indian" doesn't mean prove you're an Indian :lamo
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Since when did saying you remember your parents telling you you may have some Indian heritage somewhere in your family mean you are claiming to be a full-blooded Indian? Is that what you guys thought she meant? That’s even dumber than I thought.
 
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ataraxia said:
So when she said that she remembers hearing her parents tell her she has some Indian heritage somewhere in her background, Trump thought that meant she was claiming to be a full-bred Indian? Man, how dumb do you have to be to think that?

And how come his objection now is that he meant only in a presidential debate? He says nothing about not meeting some full blooded Indian requirement. You know more than Trump what he really meant to say?
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There must be a reason you're ignoring the exact words Trump uttered in his challenge to Ms Warren referred to by the OP. Why is that ??
 
hanger4 said:
There must be a reason you're ignoring the exact words Trump uttered in his challenge to Ms Warren referred to by the OP. Why is that ??
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Because when he challenged her to prove she is an Indian, no one in their right mind would think that meant he wanted proof of her being a full blooded Indian princess. You know that’s pretty crazy, right?

And this is not even his excuse for not paying up right now. His story is something different. This is something you have thought up and think is all clever. Too bad it’s not what Trump is saying.
 
ataraxia said:
Even if true, since when did being “Mexican, Peruvian, or Colombian” Indian become different than other Native American?
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It's not, even if, it is true. I don't know if there is a difference, but EW did specify North American Indian, Cherokee and Delaware.
 
ataraxia said:
Because when he challenged her to prove she is an Indian, no one in their right mind would think that meant he wanted proof of her being a full blooded Indian princess. You know that’s pretty crazy, right?

And this is not even his excuse for not paying up right now. His story is something different. This is something you have thought up and think is all clever. Too bad it’s not what Trump is saying.
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She didn't prove she was an Indian, in any way, form or fashion. She has no more indigenous dna than the average European American walking around the good ol US of A.
 
hanger4 said:
She didn't prove she was an Indian, in any way, form or fashion. She has no more indigenous dna than the average European American walking around the good ol US of A.
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She did prove she has Indian heritage. And that’s all she had ever claimed.
 
For those who claim that Warren was not vindicated because Trump had challenged her to prove that was an Indian, what did they think that meant?

Let’s do a poll. You think it meant:

A) She was claiming to be a full blooded Indian, and so the proof should have shown full Indian ancestry.
B) She was claiming to have enough ancestry to qualify for some formal, tribal citizenship into one of the tribes
C) She was claiming some remote family heritage as explained to her by her parents
D) other (please explain)
 
ataraxia said:
For those who claim that Warren was not vindicated because Trump had challenged her to prove that was an Indian, what did they think that meant?

Let’s do a poll. You think it meant:

A) She was claiming to be a full blooded Indian, and so the proof should have shown full Indian ancestry.
B) She was claiming to have enough ancestry to qualify for some formal, tribal citizenship into one of the tribes
C) She was claiming some remote family heritage as explained to her by her parents
D) other (please explain)
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E) Did she have enough Indian DNA to claim minority status.
 
haymarket said:
Outside of rabid right wing partisans who are on a mission to make her the new pin up girl replacing the hated Hillary Clinton - you are dead wrong. This issue is now decided and it is decided in favor of Warren. The only people clinging to it are the deplorable who hear the right wing dog whistles that the rest of us are deaf to.
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You wish. Unfortunately for Warren, she was caught. Her school called her a person of color for crying out loud.
 
ultmd said:
No, she didn't.

That's one of those idiotic, talk-radio, right wing smears that you people frequently imbibe without any discernment, whatsoever.
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Then what was it for? Have you not seen the document where A-Native American and C-Caucasian are both highlighted in yellow?
 
hanger4 said:
Too bad for her that's not all she claimed for.
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You must not have heard: she didn’t. Even after multiple detailed investigations looked into it.

”In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman.

The Globe examined hundreds of documents, many of them never before available, and reached out to all 52 of the law professors who are still living and were eligible to be in that Pound Hall room at Harvard Law School. Some are Warren’s allies. Others are not. Thirty-one agreed to talk to the Globe — including the law professor who was, at the time, in charge of recruiting minority faculty. Most said they were unaware of her claims to Native American heritage and all but one of the 31 said those claims were not discussed as part of her hire. One professor told the Globe he is unsure whether her heritage came up, but is certain that, if it did, it had no bearing on his vote on Warren’s appointment.”
Ethnicity not a factor in Elizabeth Warren?s rise in law - The Boston Globe
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I guess they don’t mention these things on Fox News.
 
ataraxia said:
You must not have heard: she didn’t. Even after multiple detailed investigations looked into it.



I guess they don’t mention these things on Fox News.
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Fact - Elizabeth Warren listed herself in the AALS as a minority.

"US Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren said on Wednesday that she listed herself as a minority in directories of law professors"

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ike/QwbGsi49koIvsKcd83lr4M/story.html?camp=pm

I don't know why you continue to claim she didn't claim minority status when you even post proof she did, strange. ...... Wait, ...... I know why, you ARE Elizabeth Warren owning yourself is easier than facing the truth. :thumps:

Your obsession with Fox is amusing.
 
hanger4 said:
Fact - Elizabeth Warren listed herself in the AALS as a minority.

"US Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren said on Wednesday that she listed herself as a minority in directories of law professors"

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ike/QwbGsi49koIvsKcd83lr4M/story.html?camp=pm

I don't know why you continue to claim she didn't claim minority status when you even post proof she did, strange. ...... Wait, ...... I know why, you ARE Elizabeth Warren owning yourself is easier than facing the truth. :thumps:

Your obsession with Fox is amusing.
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Yes she did claim minority status there. This was not for career advancement. This was for the opportunity to be able to work with, and encourage, minority students.

There were no minimal percentage blood requirements to be listed as a minority on that list- what you guys are demanding here. That’s not even what Trump was talking about.

So I’m still not sure what you guys are all upset about here.
 
ataraxia said:
You must not have heard: she didn’t. Even after multiple detailed investigations looked into it.

I guess they don’t mention these things on Fox News.
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I guess the Boston Globe didn't think Warren listing herself as a Native American at Harvard and also the University of Pennsyvania was important to mention in the story. She has admitted this with the declaration of her Native American ancestry as being a part of who she is.

The fact is that Carlos D. Bustamante she says did the DNA test isn't a geneticist. He is a biologist and a statistician who sometimes analyzes DNA tests for application to anthropological questions. He didn't use any Native American samples in his analysis of Warren but rather samples from Mexico, Peru, and some other Central or South American country. And no respectable biologist or geneticist would say that anything beyond four or so generations is genetically untraceable.

And the Boston Globe didn't mention the story Warren told about her mother not being acceptable to her father's family and having to elope because she was Cherokee and some other tribe. If that was true, Native American DNA WOULD have shown up pretty strongly in Warren's DNA though it probably couldn't have identified the specific tribe.

The fact is that Warren is LESS Native American than most of us who are also not Native American. She should admit it and be done with it.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I guess the Boston Globe didn't think Warren listing herself as a Native American at Harvard and also the University of Pennsyvania was important to mention in the story. She has admitted this with the declaration of her Native American ancestry as being a part of who she is.

The fact is that Carlos D. Bustamante she says did the DNA test isn't a geneticist. He is a biologist and a statistician who sometimes analyzes DNA tests for application to anthropological questions. He didn't use any Native American samples in his analysis of Warren but rather samples from Mexico, Peru, and some other Central or South American country. And no respectable biologist or geneticist would say that anything beyond four or so generations is genetically untraceable.

And the Boston Globe didn't mention the story Warren told about her mother not being acceptable to her father's family and having to elope because she was Cherokee and some other tribe. If that was true, Native American DNA WOULD have shown up pretty strongly in Warren's DNA though it probably couldn't have identified the specific tribe.

The fact is that Warren is LESS Native American than most of us who are also not Native American. She should admit it and be done with it.
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I don’t think she would have any trouble admitting that. What she might have trouble with is what Donald Trump challenged her on: that she has less Native American ancestry than he does, or the underlying insinuation that that is why she got the prestigious positions at the University that she did.
 
Also, your criticism that a biologist tested her and not a geneticist is like making a criticism that a brain CT was read by a radiologist and not a neuroradiology subspecialist, so therefore it must be invalid . Silly.
 
ataraxia said:
I don’t think she would have any trouble admitting that. What she might have trouble with is what Donald Trump challenged her on: that she has less Native American ancestry than he does, or the underlying insinuation that that is why she got the prestigious positions at the University that she did.
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I would have to see the direct unedited quotations in context to know what President Trump said. But she probably DOES have less Native American ancestry than he does because she has less than most people of European heritage. And he is by far not alone in believing she has used her (non-existent) 'Native American heritage' for personal advantage. I am not surprised that a very liberal Harvard faculty would defend her when the evidence we have suggests otherwise. But even if she didn't receive any favorable treated (which I don't believe for a minute), she has admitted she has listed herself professionally as Native American. And she should now admit that she isn't.

But she sure put out that weird heavily edited video suggesting she is Native American didn't she.
 
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