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Electronic Voting Machines should be banned in the United States

L

leftofabbie

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There is no justification for using the hackable - undetectably hackable - electronic voting machines.


We should demand ...

Paper ballots, hand counted, in public, cameras rolling.

Why not? Why allow corruption into our election process through electronic voting machines?
 
leftofabbie said:
There is no justification for using the hackable - undetectably hackable - electronic voting machines.

We should demand ...

Paper ballots, hand counted, in public, cameras rolling.

Why not? Why allow corruption into our election process through electronic voting machines?
Click to expand...

And on top require ID.
 
Aberration said:
And on top require ID.
Click to expand...


As I posted elsewhere, I would be OK with a voter ID requirement if there was a long lead-time to implementation and costs for travel, copies of birth certificates, etc were reimbursed for the needy.

Now, how about addressing the question? Any reason not to use paper ballots? If not, why the big push for the electronic systems?
 
leftofabbie said:
As I posted elsewhere, I would be OK with a voter ID requirement if there was a long lead-time to implementation and costs for travel, copies of birth certificates, etc were reimbursed for the needy.

Now, how about addressing the question? Any reason not to use paper ballots? If not, why the big push for the electronic systems?
Click to expand...

Obviously electronic is easier to manage and count.

I have no problem with electronic voting. I have a problem with the lack of effort to secure them. Its really not difficult.
 
TBH I'd be happy with voting from home over the internet. It's going to happen within my lifetime most likely.
 
Aberration said:
Obviously electronic is easier to manage and count.

I have no problem with electronic voting. I have a problem with the lack of effort to secure them. Its really not difficult.
Click to expand...

Easier to manage and count does nothing for me when we put the integrity of the election at risk. As for your assertation that securing them would not be difficult, I strongly disagree. I have 30+ years working in the technical field, and I can assure you that electronic voting systems could be rigged in ways that no testing could ever detect.
 
Maybe not all machines have them, but the electronic voting machines I have used have a separate register/log you have to sign in order to vote and a printed record of every vote and for the votes to be accurate, the totals of all three have to match.
 
VanceMack said:
Maybe not all machines have them, but the electronic voting machines I have used have a separate register/log you have to sign in order to vote and a printed record of every vote and for the votes to be accurate, the totals of all three have to match.
Click to expand...


Where do you vote? Receiving a printed record of your vote is illegal (anti-vote-for-sale-laws). Just having the total number of votes correct is NOT good enough.
 
leftofabbie said:
Easier to manage and count does nothing for me when we put the integrity of the election at risk. As for your assertation that securing them would not be difficult, I strongly disagree. I have 30+ years working in the technical field, and I can assure you that electronic voting systems could be rigged in ways that no testing could ever detect.
Click to expand...

From my perspective, the integrity of the elections have been at risk since our founding. But that would lead to a tangent.

I have been in electronics for 15+ years. I can assure you that making them secure, is a simple task.
 
leftofabbie said:
Where do you vote? Receiving a printed record of your vote is illegal (anti-vote-for-sale-laws). Just having the total number of votes correct is NOT good enough.
Click to expand...
I didnt say I received a voting receipt...I said a receipt is printed, on the machine, in a registrar tape. It is a paper log that allows you to check and verify what is recorded is what you intended. It is within the machine.

I can tell you are very much bunged up over electronic voting. Of course...ballot stuffing...people mysteriously finding bags and boxes of ballots after an election...corrupt polling 'attendants' fraudulently filling out paper ballots...THAT never happens...
 
Aberration said:
From my perspective, the integrity of the elections have been at risk since our founding. But that would lead to a tangent.

I have been in electronics for 15+ years. I can assure you that making them secure, is a simple task.
Click to expand...


Making them secure is not only not simple, it's impossible. To suggest otherwise is very naive.
 
leftofabbie said:
Making them secure is not only not simple, it's impossible. To suggest otherwise is very naive.
Click to expand...

Considering the situation that the machine is used it, it is simple. To suggest otherwise is very naive.

Instead of drawing this out, UNPLUG THE ****ING THING FROM THE INTERNET.

See, not so impossible.

Even voting by paper is not secure. Stop trying to be so absolute and extremist.
 
Aberration said:
Considering the situation that the machine is used it, it is simple. To suggest otherwise is very naive.

Instead of drawing this out, UNPLUG THE ****ING THING FROM THE INTERNET.

See, not so impossible.

Even voting by paper is not secure. Stop trying to be so absolute and extremist.
Click to expand...

Nothing extremist about wanting fair elections. And the internet is only one point of possible corruption of electronic voting machines. What's to say there isn't some secret code in the software? What's to say there isn't a routine hard-wired into a chip inside the electronic voting machine that only activates itself during the hours of an election?

You're either very naive our have a vested interest in protecting electronic voting.
 
Well if its 'software' in a chip, then its firmware. It its hardwired, then its not software or firmware and was done during manufacturing. None of which would concern me from a technical perspective.

You're either very naive, or have a vested interest against electronic voting.
 
Aberration said:
Well if its 'software' in a chip, then its firmware. It its hardwired, then its not software or firmware and was done during manufacturing. None of which would concern me from a technical perspective.

You're either very naive, or have a vested interest against electronic voting.
Click to expand...


You bet I have a vested interest against electronic voting. We've already had too many elections corrupted by these systems.

I used two different examples for your benefit. Yes, I know firmware, from hardware, from software. Hidden code could be in any of these. The manufacturer could intentionally corrupt the chips, even hide a chip in within a solder line. Why none of this would concern you is a mystery to me. Don't you care about election integrity?
 
They are not a concern, because they are something that is easily handled.

There has been more corruption due to paper ballots. Don't you care about election integrity? :roll:
 
leftofabbie said:
You bet I have a vested interest against electronic voting. We've already had too many elections corrupted by these systems.

I used two different examples for your benefit. Yes, I know firmware, from hardware, from software. Hidden code could be in any of these. The manufacturer could intentionally corrupt the chips, even hide a chip in within a solder line. Why none of this would concern you is a mystery to me. Don't you care about election integrity?
Click to expand...
So we are all agreed...we go to strict paper ballots, voter ID, No ballots left in any individuals possession, and...for fun...lets throw in mandatory minimum sentencing for any and all cases of voter registration fraud and voter fraud. Hell yes. 100% on board.
 
Aberration said:
They are not a concern, because they are something that is easily handled.

There has been more corruption due to paper ballots. Don't you care about election integrity? :roll:
Click to expand...



First, your opinion that these issues should not be of concern because they are easily handles is at odds with history.

Second, you offer more opinion that "there has been more corruption due to paper ballots", which is simply not true.

At this point I have no choice but to consider you incapable of intelligent debate. If you can offer any proof to back up your opinions, now is the time to cite it.
 
VanceMack said:
So we are all agreed...we go to strict paper ballots, voter ID, No ballots left in any individuals possession, and...for fun...lets throw in mandatory minimum sentencing for any and all cases of voter registration fraud and voter fraud. Hell yes. 100% on board.
Click to expand...

Add to your list mandatory minimum sentencing for any and all cases of election fraud and I'm right with you. That would certainly put Governor Scott of Florida behind bars.
 
leftofabbie said:
First, your opinion that these issues should not be of concern because they are easily handles is at odds with history.

Second, you offer more opinion that "there has been more corruption due to paper ballots", which is simply not true.

At this point I have no choice but to consider you incapable of intelligent debate. If you can offer any proof to back up your opinions, now is the time to cite it.
Click to expand...
Do you have ANY grasp whatsoever of history? Did you seriously just type that there has not been more corruption due to paper ballots?
 
leftofabbie said:
Add to your list mandatory minimum sentencing for any and all cases of election fraud and I'm right with you. That would certainly put Governor Scott of Florida behind bars.
Click to expand...
Ah...the irrepressible left wing hack just cant help making this be a partisan hack issue...which of course is ALWAYS your motivation, correct? But sure...you show where removing illegal and ineligible voters from election rolls is 'fraud' and Im right there with you.
 
VanceMack said:
Ah...the irrepressible left wing hack just cant help making this be a partisan hack issue...which of course is ALWAYS your motivation, correct? But sure...you show where removing illegal and ineligible voters from election rolls is 'fraud' and Im right there with you.
Click to expand...

It's not the ineligible voters being removed that constitutes fraud, it's the eligible ones. Removing 10 of thousands of eligible voters, as Scott is doing, is fraud. To argue otherwise is foolish.
 
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