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Eight Christians burnt to death in Pakistan after Koran is ‘defiled’

apdst said:
Don't worry, we'll take care of the terrorists, so ya'll don't have to get your hands dirty killing your brother Muslims.
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Terrorism (qitaal) as a form of jihad the Dar al Islam employs against the West is not only the least ubiquitous form of jihad, but it is also the least important form as well. I’m more concerned myself about the more widespread stealth forms of jihad that are employed much more often and that operate for the most part below the radar of most people’s level of scrutiny. Should we continue to concentrate only on killing terrorists at the same time that we also continue to delude ourselves that Islam is a Religion of Peace™ and ignore all the other much more prevalent forms of stealth jihad also taking place which are even more detrimental than terrorism?
 
apdst said:
But, this is the 21st Century. I mean, c'mon. We're not talking about the 17th Century where reletives 20 miles apart didn't see each other for years at a time.
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Christianity developed in a time where governments were very supportive of religions. Now with the separation of church and state there is much less government emphasis on religion. The advancement of any religion is now being hampered by lack of government support. Not that governments are working against religion, they are just now longer working for them.

Somethings take time, and when it comes to something like religion, that people are extremely passionate about, and often give their lives for. I would rather they take their time and not rush into anything. Mistakes happen when decisions are made too quickly.
 
Ikari said:
When Europe had its theocracies they were mostly Christian, and at that time the Christian religion acted not so differently than the Muslim religion now.
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Uhm…I don’t recall there ever being any theocracies in Europe. Moreover, when was Christianity ever a religion of conquest like Islam? Nevertheless, you are right in this respect, Christianity has undergone a reformation and mankind a period of enlightenment which has allowed for the modernization of our Western civilization, while Islam, on the other hand, has not and is still very much practiced the same way it was when Muhammad was rampaging, pillaging, murdering, and raping his way across the Arabian Peninsular slaughtering kafirs. I mean the institutionalized and systematic degradation and oppression of Christian dhimmis living throughout the Dar al Islam more than proves it.


Actually, Christianity always taught, "to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God’s." Thus, for some reason you are unfairly blaming the perversions of mankind on Christianity, at the same time that you are also attempting to idiotically equate Islam and Christianity. In any event, in the Islamic world under normal circumstances, and today isn’t a normal circumstance, Islam is the state.
 
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Ikari said:
I think I noted that difference. The best thing for the Muslim people to do would be to remove their religion from their government. It's the best way for them to protect their religion.
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Accept Islam is far more a totalitarian political movement than it is a religion or anything else.
 
Laila said:
And we'll get there ... eventually.

Every religion has some type of reformation, Islam hasn't had one yet
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In Christianity heretics were excommunicated but they never were put to death. Unfortunately, because in Islam the pain of death is the punishment for blasphemy and apostasy, it is impossible for Islam to ever be reformed and modernized. Not only that but there is no hierarchal Pope or equivalent in Islam.

Hence, Islam is doomed to always remain antithetical to pluralistic modern societies. Indeed, the best thing the entire non-Islamic world can do is to disengage from the Dar al Islam and isolate it until it collapses in on itself and dies a slow lingering death, which will inevitably happen because Muslim are incapable of producing anything for themselves except for violence, bloodshed, and lots and lots of misery.

In any event, there are a lot of secular Muslims living in the West who are courageously trying to reform Islam in order to attempt to turn it into a peaceful religion compatible with modernity. However, if these same secular Muslims attempted to do what they are attempting to do inside the Dar al Islam instead, they would inevitably be declared heretics, charged with blasphemy, declared murtadd (apostates), and killed. Thus, except for minor influence only in the West and mostly among wishful thinkers, in the Islamic world these reform movements have exactly no influence and zero impact.
 
Ikari said:
No, it was all an illustration of point. If you cared to read and take in what was being said instead of reacting because someone said "Christianity".
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I did read the whole thing, please don't assume. It is irrelevant to your point.


And again I agree, but you could have said that without disparaging Christianity to make a point.

Ikari said:
Which is what Islam needs to do as well. Don't start whinnying and crying every time someone brings up Christianity.
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Ad-hom, nice. :roll:
 
Blackdog said:
You could have said all that and got your point across without Christianity being thrown in.
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I don’t know what it is, but just about anytime you broach the subject of Islam with leftists it’s like a switch has been flipped. They almost grow fangs and go into hyper demonize Christianity mode, and they bring up everything from the Crusades to the Spanish Inquisition at the same time that they also ignore completely the reality of Islam. It’s the dangest thing I have ever observed. It’s like they have all been inculcated, cloned, and turned into zombies or something. It’s very hilarious indeed.:mrgreen:
 
Laila said:
It took Christianity as long, if not longer.

And alot more blood was shed to achieve it
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Uhm...in its almost 1400 year history, it is estimated that Islam is responsible for killing 270 million people and still counting, 60 million of those Christians and Jews, 80 million Hindus, 10 million Buddhists, and 120 million black animists. How many people were killed in the name of Christianity? Exactly zero, as Islam unlike Christianity or any other religion has a universal mission to make the world sovereign for Allah via the imposition of Sharia.

"In the Muslim community, the holy war [jihad] is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and the obligation to convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force ... The other religious groups did not have a universal mission, and the holy war was not a religious duty for them, save only for purposes of defense ... They are merely required to establish their religion among their own people. That is why the Israelites after Moses and Joshua remained unconcerned with royal authority [e.g., a caliphate]. Their only concern was to establish their religion [not spread it to the nations] … But Islam is under obligation to gain power over other nations."

--Ibn Khaldun

Are Judaism and Christianity as Violent as Islam? :: Middle East Quarterly
 
 
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akyron said:
Technically you cannot be a moderate and be a real muslim by definition of the Koran, Hadiths, and Sunnah.
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There is no such thing as Moderate, Extreme, Gay, Secular.

There is just Muslim.
If you follow the 5 pillars and 6 articles, have faith in Allah and follow the tenents of Islam. You are a Muslim.

Your political views is where extreme, secular etc. come in
 
Laila said:
There is no such thing as Moderate, Extreme, Gay, Secular.

There is just Muslim.
If you follow the 5 pillars and 6 articles, have faith in Allah and follow the tenents of Islam. You are a Muslim.
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You left out the 6th pillar of Islam and the most important, jihad. Not to mention that all devout Muslims are inculcated to blindly follow the Prophet Muhammad, the uswa hasana, (the perfect model and excellent example for emulation), and that Muhammad was a particularly violent and brutal terrorist leader who among other things was also a pedophile who married Aisha, his favorite wife, when she was just 6 years old and then consummated the marriage when she was only 9.
 
I'm not even going to bother with you

As a Non Muslim your opinion of Islam automatically means nothing to me. I hardly take those who are not Muslims advice on what a Muslim actually is, especially someone like you.

Oh and what a surprise, Prophet Mohammeds wife gets bought up :roll:

Implying i burn Christians is a new low and not even worth my time to converse with you. You do not want to discuss Islam or Muslims rationally, you hate Islam. The obsession with Jihad is downright pathetic. Your entire attitude reeks of it and you seem unable to distinguish between terrorists and Muslims who are peaceful and follow the text.
 
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apdst said:
Looks like they did a piss poor job of it. Don't worry, we'll take care of the terrorists, so ya'll don't have to get your hands dirty killing your brother Muslims.
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Stop being rude to other posters. I am frankly sick of seeing it. Every other thread it's always you being rude to others. If you knew anything about the difference in Radicals in the Muslim faith, and regular peaceful Muslims you would be ashamed of your own comment. Do you even have the slightest understanding what regular Muslims face by standing up against their tyrannical theocratic governments? More than likely death or torture. Here, I have a challenge for you. I am a conservative like yourself, but I don't hate Obama as much as you do. So, since you hate him so much, and stand against nearly all of his policies, I want you to stand up to him and go do a march and organize people. I don't see you doing that. So sit down, and STFU.
 
Laila said:
I'm not even going to bother with you
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Yeah right…then why follow up with all the garbage below?

As a Non Muslim your opinion of Islam automatically means nothing to me. I hardly take those who are not Muslims advice on what a Muslim actually is, especially someone like you.
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You’re just jealous because unlike you I’m not a Muslim apologist.

Oh and what a surprise, Prophet Mohammeds wife gets bought up
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Come on Aisha, Muhammad’s favorite wife, was just a 9-year-old child when he consumated his marriage to her and I don't know about your's but that makes Muhammad a pedophile in my book. Which is why we see other child brides throughout the Dar al Islam in emulation of their holy Prophet Muhammad, the uswa hasana. I mean what a better way to become a more pious and virtuous Muslim than by taking a child for your bride. Meanwhile Islam has institutionalized the oppression of women and your full aplogia of it indicates your endorsement of it.

Implying i burn Christians is a new low and not even worth my time to converse with you.
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Excuse me but when and where did I imply you burn Christians? Maybe you shouldn’t be posting at the same time you are drinking.

You do not want to discuss Islam or Muslims rationally, you hate Islam.
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Uhm…I think it is obviously you that is refusing to discuss Islam rationally without pitching a fit like in this post, for instance. In any event, I challenge you or anyone else for that matter to please prove anything I have ever said about Muslims and Islam on this forum that isn’t true. Indeed, if you are going to charge I’m irrational, then either put your money where your mouth is or just accept the fact that some people aren’t so naïve and gullible.

The obsession with Jihad is downright pathetic.
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Your obsession with covering up and apologizing for Muslims and Islam is a hell of a lot more pathetic.

Your entire attitude reeks of it and you seem unable to distinguish between terrorists and Muslims who are peaceful and follow the text.
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Actually your knowledge of Islam and Muslims to say the least is about as atrocious as it gets. Nevertheless, to the contrary I worry the least about the Muslims who don’t follow the text and tenants of Islam and worry the most about the ones that do follow the texts and tenants. Indeed, it is the ones who follow the texts and tenants of Islam that we need to fear the most.

I mean Muslims always make it a point to justify their acts of Islamic terrorism by citing the texts and tenants of Islam.
 
Turbeaux said:
I assure you, i do not make it a sport to run around torching Christians. :liar
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:roll:

....

Carry on lying about Islam.
I do not have time for fools like you obsessed with Islam
I'd respect you more if you actually admitted it
 
Rightwing86 said:
If you knew anything about the difference in Radicals in the Muslim faith, and regular peaceful Muslims you would be ashamed of your own comment.
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Why don’t you please educate us? What exactly makes one Muslim a so-called moderate and another one a so-called radical and how can you distinguish one from the other? Do the so-called moderates study a different version of the Koran and the Sunnah from the Koran and the Sunnah the so-called radicals study? Finally, if so-called moderates are truly moderate as you and others claim, then why are Christian dhimmis living in so-called moderate Islamic countries always without exception treated so harshly and cruelly oppressed throughout the Islamic world?
 
Hilarious! That had nothing to do with the implication of you burning Christians and you know it.

Laila said:
:roll:

....

Carry on lying about Islam.
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Well if you are going to charge that I lie about Islam, then like I said before put your money where your mouth is and back it up by proving just one single thing that I have ever said about Islam on this forum is false, untrue, and therefore constitutes illegitimate criticism. I mean only obsessed Muslim apologists like you make fools of themselves in public by incompetently making charges they can’t possibly backup. Nevertheless, I think it is obvious to all that the reason you are resorting to personal attacks is exactly because you can’t refute the message.

I do not have time for fools like you obsessed with Islam
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Yet you keep personally attacking me. Hilarious!

I'd respect you more if you actually admitted it
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Admit what, that you are an obsessed Muslim apologist who when she can’t refute the message resorts to personally attacking the messenger? I think that is rather obvious!
 
I said i do not make it a habit to burn Christians and you then use the emoticon which symbolizes lying.

Genius :roll:
 
Laila said:
I said i do not make it a habit to burn Christians and you then use the emoticon which symbolizes lying.

Genius :roll:
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Whether you did or not say you do not make it a habit to burn Christians I don't know nor do I care. Nevertheless, to claim that I implied you do is ludicrous.
 
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