Edward Snowden... today.

DA60 · Dec 16, 2013

'he·ro noun \ˈhir-(ˌ)ō\
: a person who is admired for great or brave acts or fine qualities

: a person who is greatly admired

: the chief male character in a story, play, movie, etc.'

Hero - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

There are many millions of people who 'admire' him 'for great or brave acts' already.

So there is NO question to be answered.

By definition, Edward Snowden IS a hero...period.

CRUE CAB · Dec 16, 2013

DA60 said:
Come on now, don't be so hard on yourself.

Sure, you seem to be for tyranny and a government to have too much power (not to mention the legal ability to murder ANY American it wants to without trial on the whim of the President)...a situation that will probably result in the very fabric of America'a greatness being slowly eroded in the name of cowardly fear.

That sounds traitor-like in terms of betraying all that is good about America and her Constitution.

But I would not call you a traitor.

Misguided, naive and a trained minion maybe.

But NOT a traitor.

Yea, traitor. He had other avenues to do what he did. He chose to betray his job and nation. Shoot on sight.

DA60 · Dec 16, 2013

CRUE CAB said:
Yea, traitor. He had other avenues to do what he did. He chose to betray his job and nation. Shoot on sight.

You want to be shot on sight?

You do know I was referring to you, don't you?

CRUE CAB · Dec 16, 2013

DA60 said:
You want to be shot on sight?

You do know I was referring to you, don't you?

Cant read can you?

DA60 · Dec 16, 2013

CRUE CAB said:
Cant read can you?

Yup.

But I cannot take attitudes like your's on this subject, seriously; so I just laugh it off.

No offense intended.

CRUE CAB · Dec 16, 2013

DA60 said:
Yup.

But I cannot take attitudes like your's seriously, so I just laugh it off.

No, you try to make a post or comment about a poster not the issue at hand, at which you fail.

DA60 · Dec 16, 2013

CRUE CAB said:
No, you try to make a post or comment about a poster not the issue at hand, at which you fail.

Whatever pal.

Hope that hatred/anger doesn't burn you out too soon.

Good day.

MichaelJR · Dec 16, 2013

joko104 said:
The truth frightens timid people. They don't want the truth. They want to be pacified and cajoled with nice fantasies.

This.

Snowden opened quite a few eyes, eyes that I fear did not want to be opened. In this fear, they point at the cause of said fear, demonizing it, in this instance embodied by Snowden. In the process, they fail to see the real evil (our illustrious rulers and the surveillance state), and wish everything to go back to the way it was. Quick, government fix this I'm scared. I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't need to worry right? Hurry, hurry, hang the witch!

I like to call them...

These are the "boston strong" folks that have no problem with police rolling down the street in MRAPs running through homes without warrants. I feel safer already :roll: Serving and protecting the **** out of us.

CRUE CAB · Dec 16, 2013

DA60 said:
Whatever pal.

Hope that hatred/anger doesn't burn you out too soon.

Good day.

So obviously you cant defend Snowden, but your hate of the US makes anything he did OK.

DA60 · Dec 16, 2013

CRUE CAB said:
So obviously you cant defend Snowden, but your hate of the US makes anything he did OK.

Now you are resorting to putting words in my mouth.

I apologize if I gave you the impression I care much what you think of Edward Snowden...because I don't; I was just having a little fun.

We are done on this.

Have a nice day.

CRUE CAB · Dec 16, 2013

DA60 said:
Now you are resorting to putting words in my mouth.

I apologize if I gave you the impression I care much what you think of Edward Snowden...because I don't; I was just having a little fun.

We are done on this.

Have a nice day.

You dont care, yet you kept running your mouth.

CanadaJohn · Dec 16, 2013

Unitedwestand13 said:
i don't know what to think.

on the one hand he is a hero for revealing the NSA's secrets. Yet i cannot honestly call him a hero because he fled to another country to avoid being caught. if he was proud of what he did, why did he run away instead of allowing himself to be caught?

If he had been "caught", you wouldn't know even a tiny fraction of what you now know. Considering the court ruling today, it might be a good idea for some in power to be considering an amnesty for the man and allow him to return to the US along with the data he stole. If the administration was secretly acting contrary to the constitution, that's where courts should focus, not on the man who exposed it.

Tothian · Dec 16, 2013

Not to get off topic, but how does someone make a poll on here? I clicked the option to make options but nothing showed up to allow me to do that.

OldWorldOrder · Dec 16, 2013

iacardsfan said:
Is this judge just butt hurt too? Judge: NSA phone program likely unconstitutional - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com

When did I say anything about butt hurt? The point is the majority of legal scholars agree with me, not you. Which would indicate that this isn't nearly as cut and dried as you'd like it to be and that you, in fact, are most likely wrong.

iacardsfan · Dec 16, 2013

OldWorldOrder said:
When did I say anything about butt hurt? The point is the majority of legal scholars agree with me, not you. Which would indicate that this isn't nearly as cut and dried as you'd like it to be and that you, in fact, are most likely wrong.

And a federal judge along with constitutional advocates agree with me. Plus common sense.

OldWorldOrder · Dec 16, 2013

iacardsfan said:
And a federal judge along with constitutional advocates agree with me.

Great. And the majority of them disagree. Did you just want to ignore that?

Plus common sense.

hahahahahahaha, it's too bad that's not reality for you, isn't it?

Tothian · Dec 16, 2013

Tothian said:
Not to get off topic, but how does someone make a poll on here? I clicked the option to make options but nothing showed up to allow me to do that.

Someone please answer my question.

iacardsfan · Dec 16, 2013

OldWorldOrder said:
Great. And the majority of them disagree. Did you just want to ignore that?

hahahahahahaha, it's too bad that's not reality for you, isn't it?

What is legal about obtaining personal records of people without a warrant? Monitoring phone calls, etc. If you were to do that you would be thrown in jail. Nowhere in the Constitution does it outline the government rights to private information except in the 4th amendment which protects against search and seizure of said information.

cpwill · Dec 16, 2013

MichaelJR said:
At one point in time, he took an oath.

His oath went a little something like this:

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God

He upheld that oath. For that, he's a hero (and he has more testicular fortitude than most). He has no allegiance to the government, just the American people and the constitution. "We the people".

He's no fricking hero. He was a civilian contractor, not a government employee or an active duty member of the military. He DID take an oath, however, to safeguard and protect the information he was entrusted with in order to help keep America and her citizens safe. He betrayed that oath and those he worked with because he's a self-absorbed whiner with an overly-exaggerated sense of self-importance. There is not an ounce of honest "servant" in that little turd, and we know that because (oh, and this is important), the information he is sharing and has shared has often had nothing whatsoever to do with the civil liberties of U.S. Citizens, and he instead took massive amounts of critical data to China and Russia, who are no friends of civil liberties or anything that smacks of people having authority over their government, and who most assuredly have it now.

Snowden isn't a hero. He's a fool who is now the tool of Russian foreign policy. When they are done using him to try to screw the U.S., they will discard him like a used condom.

cpwill · Dec 16, 2013

CanadaJohn said:
If he had been "caught", you wouldn't know even a tiny fraction of what you now know. Considering the court ruling today, it might be a good idea for some in power to be considering an amnesty for the man and allow him to return to the US along with the data he stole.

Sadly, we live in a digital age where data is rapidly replicable and fungible. Everything Snowden took is already lost, and will be released to the public whenever Putin deems it most advantageous.

Linc · Dec 16, 2013

outstanding post cpwill

cpwill said:
He's no fricking hero. He was a civilian contractor, not a government employee or an active duty member of the military. He DID take an oath, however, to safeguard and protect the information he was entrusted with in order to help keep America and her citizens safe. He betrayed that oath and those he worked with because he's a self-absorbed whiner with an overly-exaggerated sense of self-importance. There is not an ounce of honest "servant" in that little turd, and we know that because (oh, and this is important), the information he is sharing and has shared has often had nothing whatsoever to do with the civil liberties of U.S. Citizens, and he instead took massive amounts of critical data to China and Russia, who are no friends of civil liberties or anything that smacks of people having authority over their government, and who most assuredly have it now.

Snowden isn't a hero. He's a fool who is now the tool of Russian foreign policy. When they are done using him to try to screw the U.S., they will discard him like a used condom.

OldWorldOrder · Dec 16, 2013

iacardsfan said:
What is legal about obtaining personal records of people without a warrant?

Are you asking me like you've seriously never read a defense of it? It's storage of metadata. Why are you assuming the metadata of calls on Sprint's LTE infrastructure is your personal record? The content of your phone call might be yours, I don't see why the method of the call being routed from BTS to MSC back down the spine on the other side of the network is "yours" at all. But that's really either here nor there, I'm more fascinated at the implication that you've never read an argument for it being legal. I'm more fascinated that you genuinely believe there to be absolutely no argument whatsoever. You really thought that?

Monitoring phone calls, etc.

Except it's not. It's metadata storage.

If you were to do that you would be thrown in jail.

If I were to try to arrest someone I'd be thrown in jail, too, so that's a moot point.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it outline the government rights to private information except in the 4th amendment which protects against search and seizure of said information.

Which information again? The CDMA/LTE network infrastructure and protocols? No, I'd imagine it's not. Thankfully, that's covered when you're talking about national defense. Unless you think communication infrastructure is unimportant when it comes to defense.

I'm shocked that you either a) think there's not a rational argument for this b) are pretending you think there's not a rational argument. I mean, it's one thing to disagree, but you seem to think there's no possible way legal scholars would see the legality of this. Which is just mind boggling, since most do- including the federal judges that have approved and re-approved this for years and years.

OldWorldOrder · Dec 16, 2013

cpwill said:
There is not an ounce of honest "servant" in that little turd, and we know that because (oh, and this is important), the information he is sharing and has shared has often had nothing whatsoever to do with the civil liberties of U.S. Citizens, and he instead took massive amounts of critical data to China and Russia, who are no friends of civil liberties or anything that smacks of people having authority over their government, and who most assuredly have it now.

I'm shocked, too, at how people just look that over in order to have his actions line up with what they'd like to think of him. As if "all" he did was share information about PRISM to the Guardian. But his supporters just ignore that, because if they look at it critically, they realize they can't hang the label patriot on him (I mean, they shouldn't have been trying to do so at all, but if they look at the whole story, it totally evaporates even under their own logic).

Tothian · Dec 16, 2013

cpwill said:
He's no fricking hero. He was a civilian contractor, not a government employee or an active duty member of the military. He DID take an oath, however, to safeguard and protect the information he was entrusted with in order to help keep America and her citizens safe. He betrayed that oath and those he worked with because he's a self-absorbed whiner with an overly-exaggerated sense of self-importance. There is not an ounce of honest "servant" in that little turd, and we know that because (oh, and this is important), the information he is sharing and has shared has often had nothing whatsoever to do with the civil liberties of U.S. Citizens, and he instead took massive amounts of critical data to China and Russia, who are no friends of civil liberties or anything that smacks of people having authority over their government, and who most assuredly have it now.

Snowden isn't a hero. He's a fool who is now the tool of Russian foreign policy. When they are done using him to try to screw the U.S., they will discard him like a used condom.

He IS a hero. He kept America safe by warning them about the dangers of tyranny and corruption. The government is trying to take away freedom and privacy and anyone who opposes gets labeled crazy or bad.

ttwtt78640 · Dec 16, 2013

Tothian said:
He IS a hero. He kept America safe by warning them about the dangers of tyranny and corruption. The government is trying to take away freedom and privacy and anyone who opposes gets labeled crazy or bad.

What does that make everyone else that was aware of this program?

Edward Snowden... today.