Drunk with Anger Issues

[RF667799]

45 owners are full of these lines..."I don't use ammunition that doesn't start with a 4" is another.

Try telling a 45 owner that a 9mm offers almost as much "bang for the buck"

But yes, even the US military eventually realized that the rest of the Western world used 9mm ammo in its pistols for a reason and traded their 45's for a 9mm.

IMO, if I'm limited to FMJ and we're only worried about the effects of a single shot, the .45 would be the better choice for serious social situations.

 

[TurtleDude]

Why would you have said "other than length", if the only similarity you were discussing was diameter?

You said the only difference was in length. Now you claim diameter was all you referenced
Were there reliably expanding bullets available for .45 ACP velocities back in the time of that study?

IIRC-the winchester Silver Tip was around and some other JHPs. As you most likely know, a 200 Grain 45 is subsonic and that degrades expansion rather substantially. The 125 grain 357 JHP by Hornady, IIRC was close to 1500 FPS and had a muzzle energy just north of 600 FP

while there are a couple 45 loads that will break 600 FP in terms of energy, most are around 400 standard military 230 FMJ ball is around 350 FP. The plus P stuff from places like COR-BON approach 575

 

[Rich2018]

Yeah...rich..is that you...???
First a .38 is not the same as a.357. They are quite different cartridges.
Second a .38 is not the same cartridge as a .380.
Typical anti gunner caught lying again.

No, but see post# 409 regarding diameters.

Then maybe reconsider your slander regarding lies.

 

[RF667799]

IIRC-the winchester Silver Tip was around and some other JHPs. As you most likely know, a 200 Grain 45 is subsonic and that degrades expansion rather substantially. The 125 grain 357 JHP by Hornady, IIRC was close to 1500 FPS and had a muzzle energy just north of 600 FP

while there are a couple 45 loads that will break 600 FP in terms of energy, most are around 400 standard military 230 FMJ ball is around 350 FP. The plus P stuff from places like COR-BON approach 575

On a military range with lots of .45 FMJ going down range, one could actually see some of the bullets in their flight given good lighting. Amazing to me the first time I noticed.

 

[TurtleDude]

On a military range with lots of .45 FMJ going down range, one could actually see some of the bullets in their flight given good lighting. Amazing to me the first time I noticed.

I shoot steel competitions basically 7-8 times month from may to October. I often can see bullets-especially stuff like the slow revolver rounds. Most of our leagues, we don't have a minimum power level so the wheel gun guys load their 38 or 9mm (what my son shoots) really light. when my son shot a 327 Smith 8 shot "rail gun" we'd use 38 Short colt shells loaded with 380 (356) bullets-which are slightly undersized but are faster to speed load in a moon-clip and maybe 3 grains of Hodgon Tite-Group or less. 600 FPS. If the sunlight was right I could see the rounds here and there

 

[RF667799]

No, but see post# 409 regarding diameters.

Then maybe reconsider your slander regarding lies.

Yeah that's one of Calamity's posts when he was arguing that the bullets in a .380 ACP were actually .380 diameter. He changed that later.

 

[Grandpappy]

Jesus. What's the real deal with this controversy?

.380 is a weak round.
.38 Special is better, a law enforcement standard for decades.
.38 Special+P is a hotter round than .38 Special, but the same size.
The advantage of a .357 mag revolver is you can generally practice with the lower cost .38 Special round.

If you want to measure the diameter of the slug, though. go for it. Whatever.

 

[calamity]

Yeah that's one of Calamity's posts when he was arguing that the bullets in a .380 ACP were actually .380 diameter. He changed that later.

No, I said .38 = .380. But, yeah, the .38, 9mm and .357 all refer to the approximate slug diameter, believe it or not.

.380 ACP
Case type	Rimless, straight
Bullet diameter	.355 in (9.0 mm)
Neck diameter	.373 in (9.5 mm)
Base diameter	.374 in (9.5 mm)

 

[calamity]

Why would you have said "other than length", if the only similarity you were discussing was diameter?
...

Obviously a longer shell has other properties that matter as well. But, hey, feel free to play pedantic again.

 

[calamity]

Jesus. What's the real deal with this controversy?

.380 is a weak round.
.38 Special is better, a law enforcement standard for decades.
.38 Special+P is a hotter round than .38 Special, but the same size.
The advantage of a .357 mag revolver is you can generally practice with the lower cost .38 Special round.

If you want to measure the diameter of the slug, though. go for it. Whatever.

I don't know. I posted an image of a subcompact 9mm Ruger and all hell broke loose. I guess I have that "it" that they always talk about.

 

[Luce]

That's not how alcohol works. Someone blaming different types of alcohol is a red flag.

I don't know about that one. Rum, for example, just sits there telling you it's your friend and that you should have another sip. Have another glass. Drink the rest of the bottle.

Getting type II diabetes was one of the better things that happened to me.

 

[calamity]

I don't know about that one. Rum, for example, just sits there telling you it's your friend and that you should have another sip. Have another glass. Drink the rest of the bottle.

Getting type II diabetes was one of the better things that happened to me.

 

[RF667799]

No, I said .38 = .380. But, yeah, the .38, 9mm and .357 all refer to the approximate slug diameter, believe it or not.

.380 ACP
Case type	Rimless, straight
Bullet diameter	.355 in (9.0 mm)
Neck diameter	.373 in (9.5 mm)
Base diameter	.374 in (9.5 mm)

Here's what you said. It's not a secret. It's not a reference to the mathematical fact that .38=.380 either. It's a specific reference to the diameter of the .380 ACP bullet.

A pico Beretta does not use a .357. It uses a .38 caliber bullet, i.e. the .380 dia; just like I said.

Since you seem determined to post dishonestly, we're done.

 

[jaeger19]

No, but see post# 409 regarding diameters.

Then maybe reconsider your slander regarding lies.

Yeah..MR shotgun.
He's full of it. No one who knows anything about firearms would say "but but if they have the same diameters.. its like they are the same cartridges".
Its like saying because my truck and my tractor have the same wheelbase.. why they are similar vehicles.
Its typical anti gunners like yourself trying to act like you are gun owners.. and know something about guns.. and then you get exposed for your BS

 

[jaeger19]

Obviously a longer shell has other properties that matter as well. But, hey, feel free to play pedantic again.

Yeah.. you need to look up the word padantic.
Because a shell of the same diameter.. but produces twice the pressure is certainly not minutiae
A .22 long rifle.. and a .223 also have the same diameter.
They are vastly different in their abilities and uses. .

 

[RF667799]

Obviously a longer shell has other properties that matter as well. But, hey, feel free to play pedantic again.

The point is why did you refer to the length at all, and claim it was "the only difference", if diameter was all you were discussing?

 

[RF667799]

Yeah.. you need to look up the word padantic.
Because a shell of the same diameter.. but produces twice the pressure is certainly not minutiae
A .22 long rifle.. and a .223 also have the same diameter.
They are vastly different in their abilities and uses. .

He now claims that a .380 bullet (.355 dia) and a .38/.357 bullet (.357 dia) are the same and that he has claimed that all along. Trouble is he even posts the different diameters himself. Worse yet, I quoted an earlier post of his where he specifically claimed that the .380 cartridge uses a .380 diameter bullet.

Such blatant dishonesty signals to me that his only goal in this whole exercise has been to seek response to his posts, regardless of their (perhaps deliberate) errors.

 

[Luce]

"Have a drink, go blind" is one hell of an incentive for skipping an occupational hazard.

 

[calamity]

He now claims that a .380 bullet (.355 dia) and a .38/.357 bullet (.357 dia) are the same and that he has claimed that all along. Trouble is he even posts the different diameters himself. Worse yet, I quoted an earlier post of his where he specifically claimed that the .380 cartridge uses a .380 diameter bullet.

Such blatant dishonesty signals to me that his only goal in this whole exercise has been to seek response to his posts, regardless of their (perhaps deliberate) errors.

do you have any idea how little .002 inch is? lol...do you honestly believe mass produced lead slugs are held to within .002"?

lol..

 

[calamity]

Yeah.. you need to look up the word padantic.
...

Yeah, it's called wasting my time with stupid details no one cares about except he or she who is being pedantic. But, hey. Thanks for the fifty posts. I never would have guessed posting a pixie of a Ruger would yield this level of attention in the Gunny Forum.

Have you learned yet that the .38 special is indeed the same dia as the .357 magnum?

 

[jaeger19]

I don't know. I posted an image of a subcompact 9mm Ruger and all hell broke loose. I guess I have that "it" that they always talk about.

Nah.. you did more than that. So stop the BS.
You claimed that the picture was of a firearm that superior for women.
Then you could not give any of the particular characteristics of the firearm that made it superior
Then ultimately you showed a picture of an ENTIRELY different firearm in a vastly different caliber.. and then even mixed up the caliber of the firearm you posted the second time.

 

[calamity]

The point is why did you refer to the length at all, and claim it was "the only difference", if diameter was all you were discussing?

Because, at a glance, the length is the only difference.

See?

 

[calamity]

Nah.. you did more than that. So stop the BS.
You claimed that the picture was of a firearm that superior for women.
...

IMO, it is. Live with it.

 

[jaeger19]

Yeah, it's called wasting my time with stupid details no one cares about except he or she who is being pedantic. But, hey. Thanks for the fifty posts. I never would have guessed posting a pixie of a Ruger would yield this level of attention in the Gunny Forum.

Yeah.. you know..stupid details like the vast difference between a .38 special and a .380 auto. I mean.. what a stupid detail right?
Oh wait.. thats right.. hey you said "I could put a .380 in a 9mm and shoot it".
Well.. yes you could.. if you wanted to risk breaking your extractor and if you wanted to create problems with your barrel and chamber.. besides the fact that the weapon would probably not even cycle....
But hey.. why be "pedantic".

 

[jaeger19]

IMO, it is. Live with it.

Well.. except for the fact that you can;t say why its any different than any other firearm designed for self defense.
In fact.. thats why you ended up mixing two different firearms...