Down the mines or sweatshops?

[Peter]

both can happen


they can be both - but you're mistaken, I didn't do 12 hour days during school, it was summer work (obviously, don't cut a lot of hay in January ! )

I was up at 5 am during school year tending cattle though - then school all day. I know, the horror !!!


which wouldn't be happening - you're extreme-ing things


during the summers its fine



I've noticed when liberals are faced with being wrong, they always deflect

You don't want to stop kids driving and dying/injured "just being kids" - which happens all the time along with deaths from many other ways. That's all ok in your mind - but kids working? and the risks that might be involved? you're totally against it.

At least I'm consistent - there are risks in everything.

Lets get down to the brass tacks here.

Which kids are going to be working on the farms and in these dangerous jobs?
Is it going to be the kids of the wealthy and middle class or is it going to be poor kids?

 

[ColdHardTruth]

cows need fed at daylight, they need the ice broken on the water to drink, etc

I am aware. I have actually done this chore. The water holder was for horses.

you're controlling people because its your ideas .... maybe they have different ideas and values?

No, I am protecting children.

I made better money hauling hay than I ever did working min wage - I learned from working, valuable life things never attained by kids sitting in front of a tv or playing on a phone

This has nothing to do with phone use.

why go extreme ? you're of the party that demands cheap labor sources (illegal immigrants) right? nobody every said pay the teen's cheaply - they'll be paid as much or maybe more than anyone else. There isn't an industrial revolution again, you're right .... its just some teen's want to work and make money. You're wanting to control them and stop them

No, I do not care if they work, but I object to them working in dangerous industrial environments.

no negatives to a 13 or 14 or 15 year old wanting to work a side job, no more so than a 16 or 17 year old. The teen's who want to do it should. Good gawd do you know how many babysitters there are that's in those age groups, paid under the table? Nobody complains about that huh ?

13-, 14-, and 15-year-olds are not going to work in an industrial environment. It isn't safe.

Babysitting is one thing. Slaughter cattle and other animals is another.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

Those being, children can work part-time at 13, and full-time at 16.

Actually, no, it most US states, the law says a child must be 16 to work. 14- and 15-year-olds can work part-time hours during the summer.

 

[stealthycat]

Lets get down to the brass tacks here.

Which kids are going to be working on the farms and in these dangerous jobs?
Is it going to be the kids of the wealthy and middle class or is it going to be poor kids?

not many, you're right and wealthy/middle class probably wouldn't

it'd be the kids like me I suppose that ya'll would want to hold back and keep in poverty

 

[stealthycat]

I am aware. I have actually done this chore. The water holder was for horses.
No, I am protecting children.
This has nothing to do with phone use.

No, I do not care if they work,

it appears you do

but I object to them working in dangerous industrial environments.

EVERY work can be dangerous

13-, 14-, and 15-year-olds are not going to work in an industrial environment. It isn't safe.

Babysitting is one thing. Slaughter cattle and other animals is another.

3.5 million injuries annually in high school sports
roughly 10-15 high school athletes die annually from sports-related causes in the U.S

high school sports people spend what, 20-30 hours each week practicing etc? it takes a lot of time to train

Would you ban high school sports ? do you consider it safe ?

 

[RF667799]

Actually, no, it most US states, the law says a child must be 16 to work. 14- and 15-year-olds can work part-time hours during the summer.

I was referring to the UK in a discussion with a poster from the UK.

 

[Peter]

not many, you're right and wealthy/middle class probably wouldn't

it'd be the kids like me I suppose that ya'll would want to hold back and keep in poverty

What I want is for kids to have a good childhood and concentrate on school so they can get a good job and get out of poverty permenantly.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

not many, you're right and wealthy/middle class probably wouldn't

it'd be the kids like me I suppose that ya'll would want to hold back and keep in poverty

This is nonsense.

Nobody is keeping anybody in poverty. We are protecting children from corporate greed and Usery.

The argument is not about making a living; it's about protecting children.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

it appears you do

No, it doesn't. I am not for allowing children to risk death to up the corporate profits.

EVERY work can be dangerous

This is a dodge attempt.

3.5 million injuries annually in high school sports
roughly 10-15 high school athletes die annually from sports-related causes in the U.S

Apples/Oranges

high school sports people spend what, 20-30 hours each week practicing etc? it takes a lot of time to train

Apples/Oranges

Would you ban high school sports ? do you consider it safe ?

Apples/Oranges

 

[weaver2]

.....I'm also saying that in the last 20-30 years, kids have worked less and less and education has continually declined that's an absolute fact

Your side of the political coin spent 50 years supporting Phyllis Schlafly and her American Eagle organization's denigration of public education, telling parents the schools were brain washing kids into hating their parents values and traditional American values. Saying that school were teaching kids how to be commie-Marxists and changing history books to make kids feel guilty about being white. Accusing schools of praising immigrants and denigrating college education as over-educated snobs ...... ad nausea.

And now you are complaining that educational tests show a decline in student knowledge?

 

[stealthycat]

What I want is for kids to have a good childhood and concentrate on school so they can get a good job and get out of poverty permenantly.

Everybody would want that - you know you can do what I did (working so much as a kid) and have a great group of friends and go to college too, right ?

 

[stealthycat]

This is nonsense.

Nobody is keeping anybody in poverty. We are protecting children from corporate greed and Usery.

The argument is not about making a living; it's about protecting children.

if you'd have had your way, I've not have worked as a kid

without those many hours working, I'd not have had money to buy a car and pay for my college (what scholarships didn't cover)

you don't understand being poor - clearly

 

[stealthycat]

Your side of the political coin spent 50 years supporting Phyllis Schlafly and her American Eagle organization's denigration of public education, telling parents the schools were brain washing kids into hating their parents values and traditional American values. Saying that school were teaching kids how to be commie-Marxists and changing history books to make kids feel guilty about being white. Accusing schools of praising immigrants and denigrating college education as over-educated snobs ...... ad nausea.

And now you are complaining that educational tests show a decline in student knowledge?

never heard that name

 

[Peter]

Everybody would want that - you know you can do what I did (working so much as a kid) and have a great group of friends and go to college too, right ?

Given that I'm 49 I'm fairly sure I can't be a kid again.

I'm against child labour which should be a rather uncontroversial statement.
That Republicans want to restart child labour says everything about who they are and how much they detest the poor who will be forced into that work if allowed.

Allowing child labour will also drive down wages as employers will moan that adults should not be paid more than children doing similar work and they pay the children piss poorly because the kids have zero bargaining power.

 

[stealthycat]

Given that I'm 49 I'm fairly sure I can't be a kid again.

I'm against child labour which should be a rather uncontroversial statement.
That Republicans want to restart child labour says everything about who they are and how much they detest the poor who will be forced into that work if allowed.

Allowing child labour will also drive down wages as employers will moan that adults should not be paid more than children doing similar work and they pay the children piss poorly because the kids have zero bargaining power.

oh now you're guessing what might happen as a fact and incorporating that into why you don't support allowing the few kids who want to work be allowed to

you'd have stopped me from working as a kid, wouldn't you ?

 

[Peter]

if you'd have had your way, I've not have worked as a kid

without those many hours working, I'd not have had money to buy a car and pay for my college (what scholarships didn't cover)

you don't understand being poor - clearly

There is no way you could possibly know what would have happened if you weren't allowed to work.
Maybe you would have done better in school and got a much better job?

Hypothetical situations go both ways.

 

[Peter]

oh now you're guessing what might happen as a fact and incorporating that into why you don't support allowing the few kids who want to work be allowed to

you'd have stopped me from working as a kid, wouldn't you ?

You don't think companies would drive down wages when kids are involved?

Have you seen the history of child labour at all?
That's exactly what happens and the kids are always treated like shit simply because companies can.

It's why the industrial revolution ended in child labour being stopped.

 

[rickc]

Why are we even having this conversation?

Seems republicans want to bring back the Robber Barons of the 1800's

This was decided long ago.

In the late 1800s, labor laws were primarily focused on addressing concerns related to working conditions, hours, and child labor. While some states began to enact laws regulating working hours, particularly for specific industries like mines and manufacturing, and establishing minimum ages for employment, the overall impact of these laws was limited due to loopholes and a lack of enforcement. Organized labor played a crucial role in advocating for better working conditions and advocating for the creation of labor laws.

 

[Peter]

Why are we even having this conversation?

Seems republicans want to bring back the Robber Barons of the 1800's

This was decided long ago.

In the late 1800s, labor laws were primarily focused on addressing concerns related to working conditions, hours, and child labor. While some states began to enact laws regulating working hours, particularly for specific industries like mines and manufacturing, and establishing minimum ages for employment, the overall impact of these laws was limited due to loopholes and a lack of enforcement. Organized labor played a crucial role in advocating for better working conditions and advocating for the creation of labor laws.

Got to get back to the era when the rich owned everything and everyone else was merely cattle to be used and abused.

The funniest thing is they will cheer every step backwards towards serfdom.

 

[stealthycat]

There is no way you could possibly know what would have happened if you weren't allowed to work.
Maybe you would have done better in school and got a much better job?

Hypothetical situations go both ways.

thing is - I lived it, I have a much better idea my situation and how it all went for me than you do

you'd have stopped me from working - and held me back

 

[stealthycat]

You don't think companies would drive down wages when kids are involved?

everyone gets paid min wages for unskilled work - be it 15 or 18 or 22

Have you seen the history of child labour at all?
That's exactly what happens and the kids are always treated like shit simply because companies can.

It's why the industrial revolution ended in child labour being stopped.

its 2025

kids work RIGHT NOW in the USA .... its just opening a little more opportunity

of course, liberals would hate that

 

[Peter]

thing is - I lived it, I have a much better idea my situation and how it all went for me than you do

you'd have stopped me from working - and held me back

Yes, I would have stopped you from working and we have no idea what the results would have been.
It could be better or worse.

 

[RF667799]

Given that I'm 49 I'm fairly sure I can't be a kid again.

I'm against child labour which should be a rather uncontroversial statement.
That Republicans want to restart child labour says everything about who they are and how much they detest the poor who will be forced into that work if allowed.

Allowing child labour will also drive down wages as employers will moan that adults should not be paid more than children doing similar work and they pay the children piss poorly because the kids have zero bargaining power.

Are you as opposed to kids in the UK working part time at 13 and full time at 16, as you are to whatever you're concerned about in America?

 

[Peter]

everyone gets paid min wages for unskilled work - be it 15 or 18 or 22



its 2025

kids work RIGHT NOW in the USA .... its just opening a little more opportunity

of course, liberals would hate that

I think we can just leave this with the knowledge that you're in favour of child labour and let everyone decide what they think of that opinion.

 

[RF667799]

I think we can just leave this with the knowledge that you're in favour of child labour and let everyone decide what they think of that opinion.

13 and 16. The ages children are allowed to work part-time and full-time in the UK. Which you don't seem to have much to say about.