Dow over 17,000. thank you again President Obama. [W:1017, 2344] (1 Viewer)

[jbander]

I don't hate Obama, he seems like a typical liberal with no executive or leadership skills. Would love to have a beer with him but he is incompetent. Not sure where those accomplishments are but I am sure social engineering would be one of them because there certainly aren't any positive economic ones.

Not sure what religion has done to you because there is where I see hatred i you. Seek some help.

You claim the economy was destroyed when Bush left office and yet you haven't said how it affected you and your family so what you are doing is parroting liberal talking points. What fixed the economy was TARP or better yet kicked the can down the road as we continue to have that same problem. Nothing Obama did fixed anything other than shore up his liberal base. The Economic numbers sure don't indicate that he fixed the economy but guess you and other supporters simply have low expectations.

Ya the economy collapsed it just happened during Bushes presidency but it was Obama's fault. Bush deregulated Banks, financial, wall street and Cheney threatened the jobs of the oil inspectors, told them to leave big oil alone, So they had 8 years of not inspecting big oil the way they should and the gulf was the outcome , and what collapsed Banks, financials and wall street. But it was Obama's fault.
Obama ended Bush’s lie-based war in Iraq; got the Affordable Health Care Act passed; saved millions of jobs with loans (now repaid) to US auto industry; Pushed through Wall Street reform; Took economy from losing 700K jobs/mo. under GWB to adding 200K new jobs/mo.; fostered economic growth where DJIA could rise 70% since 4/09; closed the “doughnut hole” in Medicare prescription drug plan; Ended restrictions on stem cell research; Got guaranteed health care for children; ended insurance company restrictions on pre-existing conditions; fully funded the VA; got START Treaty approved; improved education loan program to college students; abolished Don’t Ask, Don’t’ Tell; Increased funding for the EPA; reversing two of Bush greatest failures (there are SO many!), found and killed bin Laden and other high level terrorists, and kept us safe from terrorist attacks.

 

[jbander]

You use the term destroyed our economy right out of the liberal play book. How did the destroyed economy affect you and your family as it didn't affect me or millions of others at all.

What you seem to ignore is the damage the next president is going to have to clean up because of liberalism. Your hatred for religion and states' rights is noted, misguided but noted. It really is a shame that Freedom OF Religion now means Freedom FROM religion in the liberal world. You need a new tactic to divert from the Obama failures and your BDS is on full display as is your inability to understand economics and civics.

There is nothing that has to be cleaned up by the next president, Obama cleaned up the bush disaster already. Bush the murderer of 5000 American heroes.

 

[Vern]

Pretty chart, Vern, learn how to read it. Stimulus signed February 17, 2009, when did the employment exceed 2008 and pre recession numbers? You really are a tool of the left and not a very good one.

By the way, Vern, "your" President's Administration talked about the goals of the stimulus to create shovel ready jobs. Seems to me that BLS would be the site to measure those shovel ready jobs and it did. There weren't any created as indicated by employment going form 142 million to 139 million

er uh Con, we were talking about how TARP failed based your only metric of concern. And we were discussing that if you want to give TARP all the credit then thank democrats because republicans voted against it. Focus.

 

[mmi]

Not sure where those accomplishments are

Fourteen million full-time, private-sector jobs added since Dec 2009. Deficit as a percentage of GDP reduced by 75%. Very low inflation. Eighteen million more Americans with health insurance.

>>You claim the economy was destroyed when Bush left office

I figure "seriously damaged" might be a better wording.

>>you haven't said how it affected you and your family so what you are doing is parroting liberal talking points.

Some people care about how others beyond themselves and their own families are affected by things. Sad that you don't seem to be included in that group. Does it matter to you that 8.2 million jobs weer lost in the GOP SSE Great Recession?

>>Nothing Obama did fixed anything

CBO reports that five million jobs are attributable to the ARRA. The ACA has allowed eighteen million more Americans to get health insurance.

>>The Economic numbers sure don't indicate that he fixed the economy

Fourteen million full-time, private-sector jobs added since Dec 2009. Deficit as a percentage of GDP reduced by 75%. Very low inflation.

>>you and other supporters simply have low expectations.

We have low expectations regarding SSE policies, that's for sure.

when did the employment exceed … pre recession numbers?

Those were bubble highs.

>>"your" President's Administration talked about the goals of the stimulus to create shovel ready jobs. Seems to me that BLS would be the site to measure those shovel ready jobs and it did. There weren't any created as indicated by employment going form 142 million to 139 million

Yer apparently incapable of interpreting macroeconomic data. CBO reports that five million jobs are attributable to the ARRA.

 

[Conservative]

Ya the economy collapsed it just happened during Bushes presidency but it was Obama's fault. Bush deregulated Banks, financial, wall street and Cheney threatened the jobs of the oil inspectors, told them to leave big oil alone, So they had 8 years of not inspecting big oil the way they should and the gulf was the outcome , and what collapsed Banks, financials and wall street. But it was Obama's fault.
Obama ended Bush’s lie-based war in Iraq; got the Affordable Health Care Act passed; saved millions of jobs with loans (now repaid) to US auto industry; Pushed through Wall Street reform; Took economy from losing 700K jobs/mo. under GWB to adding 200K new jobs/mo.; fostered economic growth where DJIA could rise 70% since 4/09; closed the “doughnut hole” in Medicare prescription drug plan; Ended restrictions on stem cell research; Got guaranteed health care for children; ended insurance company restrictions on pre-existing conditions; fully funded the VA; got START Treaty approved; improved education loan program to college students; abolished Don’t Ask, Don’t’ Tell; Increased funding for the EPA; reversing two of Bush greatest failures (there are SO many!), found and killed bin Laden and other high level terrorists, and kept us safe from terrorist attacks.

Please stop using words you don't understand, collapsed? By what standard? Certainly not yours because you have yet to tell me how this recession affected you. No matter how many times you say it, it doesn't make it true. You buy the leftwing spin and ignore reality. Your numbers are skewed and out of context and many are down right lies or distortion

 

[Conservative]

er uh Con, we were talking about how TARP failed based your only metric of concern. And we were discussing that if you want to give TARP all the credit then thank democrats because republicans voted against it. Focus.

Vern, you are twisted like a pretzel TARP brought us out of recession, the stimulus failed to create the shovel ready jobs and it was you that claimed the recession was ended by the stimulus which is a typical leftwing lie and distortion of reality

 

[Conservative]

There is nothing that has to be cleaned up by the next president, Obama cleaned up the bush disaster already. Bush the murderer of 5000 American heroes.

Your opinion noted

 

[Conservative]

let's hear the cheerleaders for Obama? Thank you Obama

US Army orders hundreds of soldiers back to southern Afghanistan | Fox News

 

[DA60]

The DOW is now at 15,631.79.

The last time it closed this low was around Halloween 2013!?!

Anyone still want to argue that the economy is presently in good shape?

Sorry...I meant anyone who does NOT wear rose-colored glasses for Obama/Krugmanism?

 

[mmi]

collapsed? By what standard?

8.8 million private-sector jobs lost between Jan 2008 and Dec 2009, at least two trillion dollars in lost real GDP, and $12.7K of average household net worth.







One group estimated the total cost at $12.8 trillion, including $7.6 trillion in nominal GDP by 2018. That total does not include losses in home equity. And this is for the US alone; the loss internationally in equity markets was $34.4 trillion.

>>you have yet to tell me how this recession affected you.

Not everyone is completely self-absorbed.

Between 2007 and 2011, one fourth of American families lost at least 75 percent of their wealth, and more than half of all families lost at least 25 percent of their wealth.

Wealth changes following the Great Recession also differed greatly across socio-economic groups and were patterned similar to changes in income and unemployment documented elsewhere. That is, the most disadvantaged groups (non-whites, young adults, the less-educated) experienced the greatest relative wealth losses and were the most likely to have fallen into debt. In addition, we found a particularly strong racial/ethnic bias in losses even when comparing households with otherwise equal socio-economic characteristics. — "Wealth Disparities before and after the Great Recession," Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science, Nov 2013, 650(1): 98–123​

>>No matter how many times you say it, it doesn't make it true.

How ironic that you would make such a statement.

>>You buy the leftwing spin and ignore reality.

sigh

>>Your numbers are skewed and out of context and many are down right lies or distortion

Any examples?

the stimulus failed to create the shovel ready jobs

CBO attributes five million jobs to the ARRA.

The DOW is now at 15,631.79. Anyone still want to argue that the economy is presently in good shape?

I don't think anyone is arguing that it is. Some of us realize that it's improved dramatically from where it was a few years ago. Others work to talk down the economy to support the price of Precious.

 

[jbander]

The DOW is now at 15,631.79.

The last time it closed this low was around Halloween 2013!?!

Anyone still want to argue that the economy is presently in good shape?

Sorry...I meant anyone who does NOT wear rose-colored glasses for Obama/Krugmanism?

I love regressives they argued that while the stock market went up 125% during Obama's presidency, Argued that it meant nothing, then Bozo the clown steps up and says it means everything. what it means is that after rising 125% that it will consolidate or there will be a natural correction. You have no clue my friend.

 

[DA60]

Even the NASDAQ is approaching official bear market territory.

All of this just gives further evidence to what utter crap the major government statistics are.

The U-3 is a MASSIVE joke as an 'unemployment rate' (even the Fed knows it by not using it as an official guidepost any longer), the GDP is altered (as it was over the past two years) to make the number look higher, the CPI is near useless (especially considering the record low M2 Money Velocity ratio - which more-or-less means fewer and fewer people are actually spending. A low CPI with record low money velocity is a meaningless CPI stat).

All of these numbers look decent (in theory). Yet still the Fed is so terrified of the economy that now they are talking about negative interest rates. Why the 'f' would they be doing that if these major government stats were accurate? Why would the Fed be SOOOO incredibly nervous about raising rates if the 4.9% U-3 were truly an accurate gauge of unemployment? The answer is obvious - they would not be.

Nope, anyone who truly understands the American economy has long realized that the government is masking the reality of the situation - the economy is stuck. Stagnant. And the only thing stopping it from free falling (imo) is a) (misplaced) faith in the central banks of the world; and b) those same central banks doing everything they can think of to try and force up their respective economies. But they can only do that for so long.

I have said this for years...as soon as the Fed runs out of bullets (or the masses stop believing in them), this will all end EXTREMELY badly.

 

[jbander]

Even the NASDAQ is approaching official bear market territory.

All of this just gives further evidence to what utter crap the major government statistics are.

The U-3 is a MASSIVE joke as an 'unemployment rate' (even the Fed knows it by not using it as an official guidepost any longer), the GDP is altered (as it was over the past two years) to make the number look higher, the CPI is near useless (especially considering the record low M2 Money Velocity ratio - which more-or-less means fewer and fewer people are actually spending. A low CPI with record low money velocity is a meaningless CPI stat).

All of these numbers look decent (in theory). Yet still the Fed is so terrified of the economy that now they are talking about negative interest rates. Why the 'f' would they be doing that if these major government stats were accurate? Why would the Fed be SOOOO incredibly nervous about raising rates if the 4.9% U-3 were truly an accurate gauge of unemployment? The answer is obvious - they would not be.

Nope, anyone who truly understands the American economy has long realized that the government is masking the reality of the situation - the economy is stuck. Stagnant. And the only thing stopping it from free falling (imo) is a) (misplaced) faith in the central banks of the world; and b) those same central banks doing everything they can think of to try and force up their respective economies. But they can only do that for so long.

I have said this for years...as soon as the Fed runs out of bullets (or the masses stop believing in them), this will all end EXTREMELY badly.

As much as you hate Obama and want our country to fail, Your concept of indicators is a laugh, you have no clue at all. It's good you throw one of these comments in every now and then , it lets people realize how little they should regard all your comments. Everyone who says that we are going to have rebound after a massive increase in the market is right , the key is when. Money is made going either direction, on the market. You do know there is a buyer for every seller, well maybe not ,now that I think about it.

 

[pinqy]

The U-3 is a MASSIVE joke as an 'unemployment rate'

Does the U-3 accurately measure the percent of those working or actively looking for work who are not working? Yes or No.

(even the Fed knows it by not using it as an official guidepost any longer),

What unemployment measure did they replace it with? Or did they decide that using unemployment as a guidepost was flawed?

the GDP is altered (as it was over the past two years) to make the number look higher,

Please present your evidence that the earlier method did not make the number look lower.

the CPI is near useless (especially considering the record low M2 Money Velocity ratio - which more-or-less means fewer and fewer people are actually spending. A low CPI with record low money velocity is a meaningless CPI stat).

Would a high CPI with fast velocity also be useless? The CPI REFLECTS the low velocity of money...isn't that what it's supposed to do?

Of course you won't answer any of those questions.

 

[mmi]

Of course you won't answer any of those questions.

BANG! Somebody call the coroner's office. ☺

 

[pinqy]

BANG! Somebody call the coroner's office. ☺

Huh. I don't even think he's going to respond to tell me he didn't bother reading my post. How disappointing.

 

[mmi]

How disappointing.

Careful, if you offend him he may Ignore you. Then you'll really be sorry.

 

[DA60]

Even the NASDAQ is approaching official bear market territory.

All of this just gives further evidence to what utter crap the major government statistics are.

The U-3 is a MASSIVE joke as an 'unemployment rate' (even the Fed knows it by not using it as an official guidepost any longer), the GDP is altered (as it was over the past two years) to make the number look higher, the CPI is near useless (especially considering the record low M2 Money Velocity ratio - which more-or-less means fewer and fewer people are actually spending. A low CPI with record low money velocity is a meaningless CPI stat).

All of these numbers look decent (in theory). Yet still the Fed is so terrified of the economy that now they are talking about negative interest rates. Why the 'f' would they be doing that if these major government stats were accurate? Why would the Fed be SOOOO incredibly nervous about raising rates if the 4.9% U-3 were truly an accurate gauge of unemployment? The answer is obvious - they would not be.

Nope, anyone who truly understands the American economy has long realized that the government is masking the reality of the situation - the economy is stuck. Stagnant. And the only thing stopping it from free falling (imo) is a) (misplaced) faith in the central banks of the world; and b) those same central banks doing everything they can think of to try and force up their respective economies. But they can only do that for so long.

I have said this for years...as soon as the Fed runs out of bullets (or the masses stop believing in them), this will all end EXTREMELY badly.

Even that socialist-leaning candidate Bernie Sanders realizes how much nonsense the U-3 is as the 'official' unemployment rate:


'The real unemployment rate is much higher than the “official” figure typically reported in the newspapers. When you include workers who have given up looking for jobs, or those who are working part time when they want to work full time, the real number is much higher than official figures would suggest.

It’s even worse for young people. A recent study found that over 50 percent of young African-Americans and more than one-third of white and Hispanic youth are looking for full-time work.

We are in the midst of an ongoing unemployment crisis, and we must take bold action to address it.'

Texans for Bernie


Hopefully if he becomes POTUS, at least he will force the BLS to abandon this complete joke of an 'official' unemployment rate.


Once again, I am neither dem nor rep.

 

[pinqy]

Even that socialist-leaning candidate Bernie Sanders realizes how much nonsense the U-3 is as the 'official' unemployment rate:


'The real unemployment rate is much higher than the “official” figure typically reported in the newspapers. When you include workers who have given up looking for jobs, or those who are working part time when they want to work full time, the real number is much higher than official figures would suggest.

It’s even worse for young people. A recent study found that over 50 percent of young African-Americans and more than one-third of white and Hispanic youth are looking for full-time work.

We are in the midst of an ongoing unemployment crisis, and we must take bold action to address it.'

Texans for Bernie


Hopefully if he becomes POTUS, at least he will force the BLS to abandon this complete joke of an 'official' unemployment rate.


Once again, I am neither dem nor rep.

Adam is a waiter working g 20 hours a week as he works his way through college. Brenda is an assistant manager at the same restaurant and works 30 hours a week because business is too slow to let her work the 36 hours she wants.

Changing the definition of unemployed to the U-6 denominator that you claim is the "real" unemployment, then Adam is Employed and Brenda is Unemployed even though she works longer hours and makes more money. How do you justify that?

Charlie and Donna had been looking for work but both decided to stop looking because their respective mothers were sick and needed care.
Both women recover and Charlie decides he can start looking for work soon, but Donna is not as sure. If we consider the marginally attached to be Unemployed, then Charlie is unemployed, but Donna is not in the labor force.

Oh, and do you claim that the Labor force participation rate is really 63.6% instead of the official 62.7%?

 

[Vern]

The DOW is now at 15,631.79.

The last time it closed this low was around Halloween 2013!?!

Anyone still want to argue that the economy is presently in good shape?

Sorry...I meant anyone who does NOT wear rose-colored glasses for Obama/Krugmanism?

I'll argue the economy is in good shape. Besides the fact that the Fed felt it was time to raise interest rates, UE is below 5%. And DA, I simply have to look at the Atlanta Fed's GDP forecast for Q1. Their latest estimate is for 2.6% growth. Why am I telling you, you posted it

Oh, here is the latest from the Atlanta Fed's often very accurate GDP Now.

https://www.frbatlanta.org/cqer/research/gdpnow.aspx?panel=1

And once again mmi...that line right below the chart is called 'a link'.

How do you translate a forecast of 2.6% growth with UE under 5% as "bad shape"? Wait, did you not know what the Atlanta Fed was saying when you posted it? obviously. You seem to be one who needs to check his glasses.

 

[pinqy]

Careful, if you offend him he may Ignore you. Then you'll really be sorry.

Heh...He is ignoring me, though I don't know if he's gone as far as using the ignore function.

 

[DA60]

The DOW is up about 750 points from it's February lows.

Don't get too used to it...the fundamentals suck as much as ever...hope and prayer and oil are keeping the market up.

But without government/Fed stimulus or something unforeseen...(IMO) this mini boom is doomed to eventual failure.

 

[Vern]

The DOW is up about 750 points from it's February lows.

Don't get too used to it...the fundamentals suck as much as ever...hope and prayer and oil are keeping the market up.

But without government/Fed stimulus or something unforeseen...(IMO) this mini boom is doomed to eventual failure.

good job avoiding honest and intelligent responses to your posts. You asked who wants to argue the economy is in good shape. I responded in post 2370 with your own post showing the Atlanta fed predicting 2.6% growth for Q1. How is that bad? Oh yea, I forgot you're only here to teach and learn (which means you only here to spew your ideology) and cant respond to honest and intelligent replies. It is a debate forum.

 

[DA60]

Btw, considering the economy is - according to many Krugmanites/Obamabots - going SOOOO well?

Over the last 12 months, even lowly gold has beaten the DOW.

Gold is up just over 2% over the last 365 days ($1,200/oz. to $1,227/oz. today). No great gain...but at least it is a gain.

But WAY better then the DOW which is down 9.3% (18,116 to 16,431 today).

You should be worried - imo - when Gold is kicking the DOW's butt.

 

[DA60]

We just got the clearest sign yet that something is wrong with the US economy

We just got the clearest sign yet that something is wrong with the US economy.

Markit Economics' monthly flash services purchasing manager's index, a preliminary reading on the sector, fell into contraction for the first time in over two years.

The tentative February index was reported Wednesday at 49.8.

That's below 50, the border between expansion and contraction.

...

But Wednesday's data shows "a significant risk of the US economy falling into contraction in the first quarter," according to Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit.

According to Markit's release, business activity was slammed by scarce new-work opportunities, as clients lacked confidence in the economic outlook, and snowy weather on the East Coast.

Markit noted that service providers had the weakest business outlook in nearly six years.'

Markit flash services PMI, February - Business Insider


This is interesting.

We have known for a while that manufacturing has been generally contracting in America...but the service industry was generally doing well.

Now it seems to be contracting as well.