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Dow down another 1500 points Sunday evening.

Dark said:
Can someone answer a question?
I am conducting political research and struggle to understand why the VAT (Value Added Tax) system that a majority of the globe has is fair for the United States. I know VAT does not = Tariffs. However, it still appears to be a trade barrier, based on my research. So why are they or aren't they a trade barrier?
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VAT's provide no Domestic Consumption advantage. Tariffs - OTOH - specifically do.

There's your difference.
 
cpwill said:
So Much Winning.
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The value folks who thought Hong Kong was “cheap” are really winning. The Hang Seng is down 10%. I guess they’re making up for being closed on Friday for “Tomb Sweeping Day.” They get to join the fun today. 🙂😉
 
Roadvirus said:
Congressional GOPers know damn well that Americans won't tolerate another week of the stock market crashing.

If the markets are towering inferno bad again tomorrow, there's gonna be alot of GOPers calling Trump and telling him to stop his Tariffgeddon or else they'll start siding with the Dems in taking legislative action to halt it....and any threat of "I'm gonna see you primaried!" won't work either. Having voters pissed off at 'em scares them more then any electoral threats from Trump.
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I sincerely hope that you’re correct, but I think Traitor Trump’s MAGAt base will hang with him in the short term (a month or so).
 
I thought I was so smart buying Nvidia, Apple, Amazon and SPXL (2x S&P 500) with my cash account Friday. As if my regular portfolio wasn't down enough. *ughh*
 
Ishm said:
Yes and no. The business that pays VAT on purchases from other businesses gets to claim that VAT back from the govt. So there is in effect no VAT paid by those businesses.
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Ishm said:
The same business that collects VAT at the retail level pays that money to the govt. What that means in fact is that you are only paying VAT to the govt on your profits, and not on your entire cost base. There are variations on how this work depending on the circumstances of the business, but the above is the basics, and mean that in real terms VAT turns out in most cases to have the same end effect as a retail sales tax.
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Exactly. It's the same net effect as the U.S. B2B Reseller Exemption.
 
exoplanet said:
IMO, Trump can still avoid serious political damage by declaring victory and backing out, but he's running out of time.
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This ^ is the only thing Americans can count on from the orange shit stain.
 
Ishm said:
$60/barrel sounds good for gas prices, but it is below the economic limit for a quite a lot of US production. That means no "drill baby drill", and takes away a lot of US control of the global oil markets. Handing it instead to the many countries that produce oil at a fraction of the cost if US production. There is not much to celebrate in the US about oil reaching lows like that. If US production slows due to becoming uneconomic, we are going to be importing even more oil, while exporting less oil, widening our trade deficit instead of helping to close it.
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I swear if we do recede the economy to the point gas prices tank, if a MAGA dares hit me with claims on how cheap gas is now under Trump (like they claim it was under Trump during the pandemic), I will be absolutely relentless in my response!
 
aociswundumho said:
I blame anyone who thinks it's a good idea to give idiot politicians power over the economy, but that is exactly what the political left supports.

Neither the president nor congress should have the power to impose tariffs. They have a million other ways to tax us.
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Probably.

But I also know you voted for that SOB, so you’re partly responsible for this. Own it.
 
Chomsky said:
I swear if we do recede the economy to the point gas prices tank, if a MAGA dares hit me with claims on how cheap gas is now under Trump (like they claim it was under Trump during the pandemic), I will be absolutely relentless in my response!
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Don't you worry. We have dummies on my side who will do just that.
 
j brown's body said:
I think the reason the stock market has plunged is because no one knows what to expect because Trump is so unpredictable. And that's going to affect the economy as companies will be reluctant to invest in a volatile market.
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Exactly. Trump's out of his league.

There's no way any CEO is going to do substantive Capital Expenditure under Trump.
 
Ahlevah said:
Just shows you how reliant these countries are on the American consumer. A number of them already are in recession. If they were looking for the American consumer to bail them out, they may be disappointed, especially after this fiasco. Consumer confidence was already having issues before this happened. We see signs of stress at the lower end with credit card defaults at a 12-year high, and I don’t imagine trillions of dollars in stock market losses will inspire anyone to go on a spending spree. Call it the reverse wealth effect.

fortune.com

U.S. credit card defaults soar; total debt hits 12-year high | Fortune

More Americans are increasingly financially stressed and taking on debt that they cannot pay off.
fortune.com fortune.com
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The bolded is a fair descriptor, and yes - it is demonstrably real.

We market a service that - due to it's cost - is generally purchased by higher-net-worth individuals. Many times we're paid out of trusts, often investment trusts.

I see the "wealth effect" in our business variances. Yes, even the wealthy react to variance in the economy.
 
Variant said:
People are cashing out. The run up in Gold already happened. We're into the mattress stuffing phase.

Well maybe not yet, people are still likely to keep their money in savings accounts for the time being as the banks aren't (as far as I know) ready to fail.

Remember people the FDIC is a good thing, it's why you're likely to see few runs on banks this week (you know unless it fails).
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I hate to break the news, but Trump's team has been lobbying for shutting-down the FDIC.
 
Variant said:
There are people shorting the market, he probably wants to make sure they get a big tax cut.
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if Trump wanted to, he & his could profit greatly due to his market manipulation.
 
Chomsky said:
I hate to break the news, but Trump's team has been lobbying for shutting-down the FDIC.
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Yes but he hasn't yet done so. I doubt people are going to warm to the idea this week.
 
Chomsky said:
if Trump wanted to, he & his could profit greatly due to his market manipulation.
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I'm surprised if you are assuming he isn't. I half expect him to call the whole thing off on Wednesday and have 20 billion in his accounts.
 
craig said:
Are they really coming down? I just paid 7 bucks for 18 eggs in Colorado.
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Slightly down at wholesale.

No idea of retail, as I only buy a dozen every several weeks - and just buy the cheapest "Large" without paying much attention. In fact, I don't personally eat eggs as their own stand-alone product.
 
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