David_N
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2015
- Messages
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- The United States
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- Political Leaning
- Liberal
“In many respects, you know, they honor President Obama,” Mr. Trump told a raucous and rowdy crowd in Florida on Wednesday night. “He’s the founder of ISIS. He’s the founder of ISIS. He’s the founder. He founded ISIS.” He added, “I would say the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton.” During an extended riff on the crisis in Crimea, Mr. Trump added extra emphasis on the president’s full name, saying that it occurred “during the administration of Barack Hussein Obama.”
The title is not a joke.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/us/politics/trump-rally.html
Did you watch the video? As he puts it there, it makes quite good sense in a certain way. Had he used the word facilitator, he would have been close to fine.
In what certain way?... bat crazy right wing isolation in a bunker certain way? It makes no sense at all.... ISIS was created out of the ashes of Al Q in Iraq. Why was Al Q in Iraq in the first place.. Bush and his Iraq war...
Must there always be a new thread every time one of these clowns says something stupid? :doh
The title is not a joke.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/us/politics/trump-rally.html
Political speech couched in a way that is accurate. What is the controversy?
....
No. Not at all.
Yes. Absolutely.
Like most political speech, it pushes the limits.
According to a history of ISIS/ISIL/Daesh, it was born out of AQ and didn't organize itself until after the Arab Spring uprisings. This all occurred during the Obama Administration and in part as a result of Obama Administration policies, and State Department activities.
A brief history of ISIS
Fast forward again to the Arab Spring and the uprising against Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad (more info on that here). During the Iraq War, AQI would frequently go back and forth between Syria and Iraq to resupply, so it had a lot of contacts in the country. When Assad began shooting and gassing his own people, and the peaceful uprising turned into a civil war, AQI saw an opportunity to establish a presence there.
It quickly moved into Syria, renamed itself as The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), and merged with its Syrian counterpart.
So, is Obama the founder? Well, obviously not in a purely objective review, but in an indirect subjective way, there is some truth there.
Again, the most critical issue is the media this election cycle.
It is presenting lies and distortions in what I believe will be seen as one of the most egregious cases of election tampering in modern US history.
Not sure what can be done about it, other than to call it out every time so people can reject the source, and put it out of business.
Obama is too much of a yellow belly to be the founder of ISIS. :lol:
Ignoring for a moment it is unequivocally false, in any and every way, to say Obama founded ISIS, I'll play along with you and say ISIS most certainly rose to global consciousness under President Obama's term as President.
But here's my question. What evidence do you or Mr. Trump have that ISIS honors President Obama?
He is the POTUS, which is more than you will ever achieve.
Very easy for you to armchair quarterback when you understand nothing about his job.
You embarrass yourself with your partisan garbage.
The title is not a joke.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/us/politics/trump-rally.html
I admire you trying to protect your hero. :lol:
No, I didn't admit that, nor is it true. There's a marked difference between founding a group and having it grow under your watch. In fact, the difference is so great it is an outright lie to claim they are similar. Founding something means you created it, that you were the one directly responsible for it's inception.As I stated, it is most certainly not unequivocally false, as you admitted.
Subjective? No. A political lie? Absolutely.Subjective? Absolutely. Political stump speech? Of course.
So it's a lie as well? So you are literally defending a lie and then trying to blame the media for the lie Trump told?The "honors" bit falls into exactly the same framework.
Which is a wholly separate concept than founding a group and being honored by them.Reviewing the available information from multiple sources, as I'm positive you have done yourself, identifies the circumstances from which Daesh congealed into what it is today.
"Could" honor Obama? No, that's not what Trump said. Now you're the one not telling the truth. Trump didn't say they "might" honor Obama or "could" honor Obama...no, he said "they honor President Obama".So again, in a subjective election season speech way, it could be said Daesh could honor Obama
Please show me your evidence that ISIS honors Obama. Trump said it did, you claim the media is dishonest about it...so you prove it. Prove ISIS honors Obama.No need to play along on that one, it's true.
Objectively thinking would be a welcome change in your posts.Objectively thinking,
No, I didn't admit that, nor is it true. There's a marked difference between founding a group and having it grow under your watch. In fact, the difference is so great it is an outright lie to claim they are similar. Founding something means you created it, that you were the one directly responsible for it's inception.
Obama is not part of ISIS. He didn't "found" it, no matter how much you try to bastardize the meaning. You cannot be a founder of something you have always directly opposed. Only an idiot or a liar would claim otherwise.
Subjective? No. A political lie? Absolutely.
So it's a lie as well? So you are literally defending a lie and then trying to blame the media for the lie Trump told?
Which is a wholly separate concept than founding a group and being honored by them.
Don't be dishonest and don't be a liar. And don't support lies, even if they are from the candidate you will vote for.
"Could" honor Obama? No, that's not what Trump said. Now you're the one not telling the truth. Trump didn't say they "might" honor Obama or "could" honor Obama...no, he said "they honor President Obama".
Why is it so hard for you to simply tell the truth and call a lie for what it is. There is no political way to spin this lie and it makes one look stupid for trying.
Please show me your evidence that ISIS honors Obama. Trump said it did, you claim the media is dishonest about it...so you prove it. Prove ISIS honors Obama.
Objectively thinking would be a welcome change in your posts.
Political speech couched in a way that is accurate. What is the controversy?
Frankly, as a citizen, and a voter, regardless of party affiliation, I would be far more concerned with the over the top bias in the media that without question has reached new highs (lows?) this election cycle.
It's as if the collective efforts of the media trade has determined that every voter is completely stupid and incapable of seeing what they are doing. I can't see it any other way, since this election cycle these "journalists" aren't even trying to appear objective.
Every voter should be extremely concerned at what they are witnessing.
Do we want all news information coming from what amounts to as a single ideologically controlled source?
Are we going to accept a news media that lies and distorts truth?
Are we going to accept a news media that apparently considers it's audience too stupid to see what they are doing?
This fact is what is truly no joke, while the silly BS coming from ideologically impaired media sources like the NY Times most certainly is.
Just ask yourself what you would do if the shoe were on the other foot.
You didn't offer an opinion. You tried to claim words don't have meanings and when pressed for evidence to support your position, you're refusing to provide any.LOL
None if it is a lie.
But thanks for your opinion. I offered mine.
Have a nice day.
No, I didn't admit that, nor is it true. There's a marked difference between founding a group and having it grow under your watch. In fact, the difference is so great it is an outright lie to claim they are similar. Founding something means you created it, that you were the one directly responsible for it's inception.
Obama is not part of ISIS. He didn't "found" it, no matter how much you try to bastardize the meaning. You cannot be a founder of something you have always directly opposed. Only an idiot or a liar would claim otherwise.
Subjective? No. A political lie? Absolutely.
...
Of Trump's statements:
4% was true (9 out of 217 statements)
11% was mostly true (24 out of 217 statements)
15% was half true (32 out of 217 statements)
15% was mostly false(33 out of 217 statements)
36% was false (79 out of 217 statements)
18% was pants on fire (40 out of 217 statements)
Compared to Hillary's statements:
22% was true (53 out of 237 statements)
28% was mostly true (67 out of 237 statements)
22% was half true (51 out of 237 statements)
14% was mostly false(34 out of 237 statements)
11% was false (27 out of 237 statements)
2% was pants on fire (5 out of 237 statements)
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