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Donald Trump Calls Obama ‘Founder of ISIS’ and Says It Honors Him

David_N

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The title is not a joke.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/us/politics/trump-rally.html
“In many respects, you know, they honor President Obama,” Mr. Trump told a raucous and rowdy crowd in Florida on Wednesday night. “He’s the founder of ISIS. He’s the founder of ISIS. He’s the founder. He founded ISIS.” He added, “I would say the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton.” During an extended riff on the crisis in Crimea, Mr. Trump added extra emphasis on the president’s full name, saying that it occurred “during the administration of Barack Hussein Obama.”
 

PeteEU

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Did you watch the video? As he puts it there, it makes quite good sense in a certain way. Had he used the word facilitator, he would have been close to fine.

In what certain way?... bat crazy right wing isolation in a bunker certain way? It makes no sense at all.... ISIS was created out of the ashes of Al Q in Iraq. Why was Al Q in Iraq in the first place.. Bush and his Iraq war...
 

joG

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In what certain way?... bat crazy right wing isolation in a bunker certain way? It makes no sense at all.... ISIS was created out of the ashes of Al Q in Iraq. Why was Al Q in Iraq in the first place.. Bush and his Iraq war...

You might want to dwell on it. It is really better to try to understand your enemy than to just say : "bat crazy right wing isolation in a bunker". That is, if it isn't just the noise one is interested in.
 

PoS

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Must there always be a new thread every time one of these clowns says something stupid? :doh
 

American

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Obama is too much of a yellow belly to be the founder of ISIS. :lol:
 

SenorXm/Sirius

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Must there always be a new thread every time one of these clowns says something stupid? :doh

Yeah, with most politicians they say stupid things daily. But what we are seeing this year with Trump is he says stupid things hourly. It's overwhelming. Can't keep up.
 

Peter King

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General McFarland yesterday stated that in the past 2 years 45,000 IS warriors have died, so not really sure why they would honor Obama for bringing them death and destruction on massive scale. IS has lost about 50% of it's territory so they must love and honor Obama for that too.

IS was founded (according to wikipedia) in 1999 and in 2006 they were already known as Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) so they are clearly the result policies that started far before Obama was even a presidential candidate.

I do not know whether or not the man is incapable of telling the truth (but does know the truth) or whether he is just a total ignorant hack.
 

ocean515

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Political speech couched in a way that is accurate. What is the controversy?

Frankly, as a citizen, and a voter, regardless of party affiliation, I would be far more concerned with the over the top bias in the media that without question has reached new highs (lows?) this election cycle.

It's as if the collective efforts of the media trade has determined that every voter is completely stupid and incapable of seeing what they are doing. I can't see it any other way, since this election cycle these "journalists" aren't even trying to appear objective.

Every voter should be extremely concerned at what they are witnessing.

Do we want all news information coming from what amounts to as a single ideologically controlled source?

Are we going to accept a news media that lies and distorts truth?

Are we going to accept a news media that apparently considers it's audience too stupid to see what they are doing?


This fact is what is truly no joke, while the silly BS coming from ideologically impaired media sources like the NY Times most certainly is.

Just ask yourself what you would do if the shoe were on the other foot.
 

ocean515

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No. Not at all.

Yes. Absolutely.

Like most political speech, it pushes the limits.

According to a history of ISIS/ISIL/Daesh, it was born out of AQ and didn't organize itself until after the Arab Spring uprisings. This all occurred during the Obama Administration and in part as a result of Obama Administration policies, and State Department activities.

http://theweek.com/articles/589924/brief-history-isis

Fast forward again to the Arab Spring and the uprising against Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad (more info on that here). During the Iraq War, AQI would frequently go back and forth between Syria and Iraq to resupply, so it had a lot of contacts in the country. When Assad began shooting and gassing his own people, and the peaceful uprising turned into a civil war, AQI saw an opportunity to establish a presence there.​

It quickly moved into Syria, renamed itself as The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), and merged with its Syrian counterpart.​

So, is Obama the founder? Well, obviously not in a purely objective review, but in an indirect subjective way, there is some truth there.

Again, the most critical issue is the media this election cycle.

It is presenting lies and distortions in what I believe will be seen as one of the most egregious cases of election tampering in modern US history.

Not sure what can be done about it, other than to call it out every time so people can reject the source, and put it out of business.
 

Slyfox696

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Yes. Absolutely.

Like most political speech, it pushes the limits.

According to a history of ISIS/ISIL/Daesh, it was born out of AQ and didn't organize itself until after the Arab Spring uprisings. This all occurred during the Obama Administration and in part as a result of Obama Administration policies, and State Department activities.

A brief history of ISIS

Fast forward again to the Arab Spring and the uprising against Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad (more info on that here). During the Iraq War, AQI would frequently go back and forth between Syria and Iraq to resupply, so it had a lot of contacts in the country. When Assad began shooting and gassing his own people, and the peaceful uprising turned into a civil war, AQI saw an opportunity to establish a presence there.​

It quickly moved into Syria, renamed itself as The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), and merged with its Syrian counterpart.​

So, is Obama the founder? Well, obviously not in a purely objective review, but in an indirect subjective way, there is some truth there.

Again, the most critical issue is the media this election cycle.

It is presenting lies and distortions in what I believe will be seen as one of the most egregious cases of election tampering in modern US history.

Not sure what can be done about it, other than to call it out every time so people can reject the source, and put it out of business.

Ignoring for a moment it is unequivocally false, in any and every way, to say Obama founded ISIS, I'll play along with you and say ISIS most certainly rose to global consciousness under President Obama's term as President.

But here's my question. What evidence do you or Mr. Trump have that ISIS honors President Obama?
 

SMTA

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Obama is too much of a yellow belly to be the founder of ISIS. :lol:

He is the POTUS, which is more than you will ever achieve.

Very easy for you to armchair quarterback when you understand nothing about his job.

You embarrass yourself with your partisan garbage.
 

ocean515

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Ignoring for a moment it is unequivocally false, in any and every way, to say Obama founded ISIS, I'll play along with you and say ISIS most certainly rose to global consciousness under President Obama's term as President.

But here's my question. What evidence do you or Mr. Trump have that ISIS honors President Obama?

As I stated, it is most certainly not unequivocally false, as you admitted. Subjective? Absolutely. Political stump speech? Of course.

The "honors" bit falls into exactly the same framework.

Reviewing the available information from multiple sources, as I'm positive you have done yourself, identifies the circumstances from which Daesh congealed into what it is today.

This came about from policies and actions directly attributed to the Obama Administration, and the State Department under Hillary Clinton.

So again, in a subjective election season speech way, it could be said Daesh could honor Obama for bringing about the circumstances that allowed it to organize and embark on it's caliphate.

No need to play along on that one, it's true.

Objectively thinking, I'm sure they aren't raising a glass of whisky to thank Obama while contemplating which children to rape.
 

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He is the POTUS, which is more than you will ever achieve.

Very easy for you to armchair quarterback when you understand nothing about his job.

You embarrass yourself with your partisan garbage.

I admire you trying to protect your hero. :lol:
 

SMTA

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I admire you trying to protect your hero. :lol:

I don't care for him at all, but I am not going to be a jerk about it.

I am smart enough to recognize that all politicians will screw the people.

I am also smart enough not to completely and blindly embrace any party as you do.
 

Slyfox696

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As I stated, it is most certainly not unequivocally false, as you admitted.
No, I didn't admit that, nor is it true. There's a marked difference between founding a group and having it grow under your watch. In fact, the difference is so great it is an outright lie to claim they are similar. Founding something means you created it, that you were the one directly responsible for it's inception.

Obama is not part of ISIS. He didn't "found" it, no matter how much you try to bastardize the meaning. You cannot be a founder of something you have always directly opposed. Only an idiot or a liar would claim otherwise.

Subjective? Absolutely. Political stump speech? Of course.
Subjective? No. A political lie? Absolutely.

The "honors" bit falls into exactly the same framework.
So it's a lie as well? So you are literally defending a lie and then trying to blame the media for the lie Trump told?

Reviewing the available information from multiple sources, as I'm positive you have done yourself, identifies the circumstances from which Daesh congealed into what it is today.
Which is a wholly separate concept than founding a group and being honored by them.

Don't be dishonest and don't be a liar. And don't support lies, even if they are from the candidate you will vote for.

So again, in a subjective election season speech way, it could be said Daesh could honor Obama
"Could" honor Obama? No, that's not what Trump said. Now you're the one not telling the truth. Trump didn't say they "might" honor Obama or "could" honor Obama...no, he said "they honor President Obama".

Why is it so hard for you to simply tell the truth and call a lie for what it is. There is no political way to spin this lie and it makes one look stupid for trying.

No need to play along on that one, it's true.
Please show me your evidence that ISIS honors Obama. Trump said it did, you claim the media is dishonest about it...so you prove it. Prove ISIS honors Obama.

Objectively thinking,
Objectively thinking would be a welcome change in your posts.
 

ocean515

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No, I didn't admit that, nor is it true. There's a marked difference between founding a group and having it grow under your watch. In fact, the difference is so great it is an outright lie to claim they are similar. Founding something means you created it, that you were the one directly responsible for it's inception.

Obama is not part of ISIS. He didn't "found" it, no matter how much you try to bastardize the meaning. You cannot be a founder of something you have always directly opposed. Only an idiot or a liar would claim otherwise.

Subjective? No. A political lie? Absolutely.

So it's a lie as well? So you are literally defending a lie and then trying to blame the media for the lie Trump told?

Which is a wholly separate concept than founding a group and being honored by them.

Don't be dishonest and don't be a liar. And don't support lies, even if they are from the candidate you will vote for.

"Could" honor Obama? No, that's not what Trump said. Now you're the one not telling the truth. Trump didn't say they "might" honor Obama or "could" honor Obama...no, he said "they honor President Obama".

Why is it so hard for you to simply tell the truth and call a lie for what it is. There is no political way to spin this lie and it makes one look stupid for trying.

Please show me your evidence that ISIS honors Obama. Trump said it did, you claim the media is dishonest about it...so you prove it. Prove ISIS honors Obama.

Objectively thinking would be a welcome change in your posts.

LOL

None if it is a lie.

But thanks for your opinion. I offered mine.

Have a nice day.
 

Peter King

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Political speech couched in a way that is accurate. What is the controversy?

Frankly, as a citizen, and a voter, regardless of party affiliation, I would be far more concerned with the over the top bias in the media that without question has reached new highs (lows?) this election cycle.

It's as if the collective efforts of the media trade has determined that every voter is completely stupid and incapable of seeing what they are doing. I can't see it any other way, since this election cycle these "journalists" aren't even trying to appear objective.

Every voter should be extremely concerned at what they are witnessing.

Do we want all news information coming from what amounts to as a single ideologically controlled source?

Are we going to accept a news media that lies and distorts truth?

Are we going to accept a news media that apparently considers it's audience too stupid to see what they are doing?


This fact is what is truly no joke, while the silly BS coming from ideologically impaired media sources like the NY Times most certainly is.

Just ask yourself what you would do if the shoe were on the other foot.

Sadly it is no longer the good old way of news reporting that is the norm any more today. With so many news sources, only news providers that go outside of the grey mediocre mass of regular reporting that attract the sparse advertising dollars in the fast paced world of news today.

But let us not forget that this electoral cycle has a reality TV star in a leading role who is a really really really big fan of conspiracy theories and who does most of his stump speeches shooting from the hip.

And you are worried about a news media that lies and distorts the truth? How about a presidential candidate that lies and distorts the truth even more than the media does.

Of Trump's statements:

4% was true (9 out of 217 statements)
11% was mostly true (24 out of 217 statements)
15% was half true (32 out of 217 statements)
15% was mostly false(33 out of 217 statements)
36% was false (79 out of 217 statements)
18% was pants on fire (40 out of 217 statements)

Compared to Hillary's statements:

22% was true (53 out of 237 statements)
28% was mostly true (67 out of 237 statements)
22% was half true (51 out of 237 statements)
14% was mostly false(34 out of 237 statements)
11% was false (27 out of 237 statements)
2% was pants on fire (5 out of 237 statements)

And let us not forget that most media is mostly centrist to liberal leaning because that is where the money (readers/public) is because, and this is not meant to insult anyone, but higher educated individuals read more newspapers than people with lower education.

But even higher educated people are reading less newspapers than before due to the 24 hour media frenzy that the internet, cable news and 24/7 access to news television and internet news media sources.

And because there are loads of news media sources they need to be properly sensational to be read, all of this leads to sensationalizing the news to no end.

We should also not forget that not many previous candidates have said so many inflammatory statements as the Donald and while he sees the news media as inherently unfair, maybe he should look at his own part in this issue because the news media could not "unfairly portray" the Donald if he would not say so many dubious statements that could be explained in a huge number of ways.
 

Slyfox696

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LOL

None if it is a lie.

But thanks for your opinion. I offered mine.

Have a nice day.
You didn't offer an opinion. You tried to claim words don't have meanings and when pressed for evidence to support your position, you're refusing to provide any.

I think it's a shame people know they are supporting a lie and refuse to simply denounce. Trump lied. It's not subjective, it's not an opinion. It was a lie. Obama did not found ISIS and there is no evidence ISIS honors Obama. You have not presented a single piece of evidence to support either one of those claims.

And now you "LOL" because you know how utterly ridiculous it is for you to continue this line of discussion and instead will run away, because even the most ardent Trump supporter knows they cannot defend this statement without being a liar themselves. Instead of running away, you should just admit what Trump said has no basis in reality.
 

Paperview

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No, I didn't admit that, nor is it true. There's a marked difference between founding a group and having it grow under your watch. In fact, the difference is so great it is an outright lie to claim they are similar. Founding something means you created it, that you were the one directly responsible for it's inception.

Obama is not part of ISIS. He didn't "found" it, no matter how much you try to bastardize the meaning. You cannot be a founder of something you have always directly opposed. Only an idiot or a liar would claim otherwise.

Subjective? No. A political lie? Absolutely.

...

Bingo.

Isis was founded in Bush's Camp Bucca.

[h=3]Camp Bucca: The US prison that became the birthplace of Isis[/h]
Obama was against the Iraq war.

In no way, form or shape, was ISIS founded by Obama.
 
Last edited:

Harshaw

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Of Trump's statements:

4% was true (9 out of 217 statements)
11% was mostly true (24 out of 217 statements)
15% was half true (32 out of 217 statements)
15% was mostly false(33 out of 217 statements)
36% was false (79 out of 217 statements)
18% was pants on fire (40 out of 217 statements)

Compared to Hillary's statements:

22% was true (53 out of 237 statements)
28% was mostly true (67 out of 237 statements)
22% was half true (51 out of 237 statements)
14% was mostly false(34 out of 237 statements)
11% was false (27 out of 237 statements)
2% was pants on fire (5 out of 237 statements)

As if Politifact is science, or even reliable research.

Both of them lie ridiculously, habitually, brazenly, cravenly. They even lie about lying.

But these numbers are meaningless.
 
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